Bad Guy Dealing with Captive Bred Excellence left a bad taste in my mouth...

[LORDOFWAR187]

It still goes back to the transaction was complete the snakes changed hands the deal was in fact final, and by only receiving back the purchase price the buyer is still out the time to pick up the animals and w/e supplies where purchased for the snakes

 

[LORDOFWAR187]

For what the seller states was a oversight on his end.

 

[thehappypet]

@emeraldboid I believe tiny salmon mentioned shipping 4 or 5 pages after the post we are talking about. Not sure if this misdirection is intentional or accidental.

 

[hhmoore]

Seems as if the buyer became rude and threatening, the seller took a hard line stance then refunded the money.

Elissa would have probably had better results not threatening Tad but trying to work it out with him in a calmer more respectful manner.

It was said you threatened to tarnish the reputation of Captive bred excellence.

You posted a paypal receipt for $125.00 on a pair of bp's that were posted at $175.00

After the confusion captive bred excellence did the right thing by refunding you, you did the right thing by returning the bp's.

End of story!

How about the most important thing...the pair of bp's bouncing around in a hot or cold box.. seems like the focus is on the money,the bad experience etc,etc.

I do agree that he could have let her have the pair for what she sent($125.00) but also wonder if she made a mistake sending $125.00 when the ad clearly said $175.00 ?

Unfortunately, these don't appear in the order in which is like to address them; but I'm on a mobile device, and won't be screwing around with shifting the order.

Ed,
Are you trying to play devil's advocate in this thread? When compared to the posts, and the facts as they have been presented, your posts don't make much sense.
The OP made an offer of $125 for the snakes. There may have been some confusion regarding specifically which snakes she wanted; but that was clarified in the subsequent messages. The money was sent, along with a specific notation about the snakes. The snakes were picked up at the seller's home. Are you really suggesting that it isn't the seller's responsibility to hand over the correct animals, or to ensure that the correct payment has been received? The time for him to address any discrepancies was before the animals left his possession.
Frankly, I'm surprised that this seller would have, even for a moment, thought it was acceptable to contact the buyer for more money the day after sending the snakes to their new home. He made a mistake - it happens - but nobody in his right mind would think it is okay to contact the buyer the day after delivery asking for more money or the return of the animals.
This thread IS about the experience, the money, etc,etc. The seller didn't ship them, so how they got from from point A to point B isn't his responsibility.

The seller doing the right thing in this case would have been either addressing the discrepancy before the transfer....preferably before the person picking them up was standing at his door; OR, figuring it out after the fact (as he did), chastising himself for his error, and not expecting the buyer to reach into her pocket to fix his mistake.

Unless there is a big piece of this story missing or misrepresented (which is unlikely, given the seller's participation), the seller blew this one. 100% wrong from contacting the buyer to request more money right through showing at Sarah's door to collect them. Giving the refund wasn't "the right thing"; it was simply a requirement for taking the snakes back.


Tad, it was once said, and often repeated, that it's easy to be a "good guy" when everything goes well...it is how one handles the problems that really tells the tale. You asked earlier if you were 100% wrong, and if there was a compromise. FWIW, in my opinion, you were 100% wrong. You were correct that it probably won't have a long lasting impact on your sales; but it will always be there as the time you dropped the ball. You've said that you don't need the money - why not turn this whole thing right back around? Bring the snakes back to Sarah, or ship them to Elisa (on your dime, because this mess should never have happened); recollect the $125 that you originally agreed upon for the snakes; and chalk this whole thing up as a lesson learned. Obviously, that will depend on them being willing to deal with you after that debacle; but it is (IMO) the "right thing to do".

 

[EmeraldBoid]

It still goes back to the transaction was complete the snakes changed hands the deal was in fact final, and by only receiving back the purchase price the buyer is still out the time to pick up the animals and w/e supplies where purchased for the snakes

True, but I wanted the story straight in my head before I said something too stupid. My apologies for being unable to follow everybody.

As far as the supplies go, I would just take my receipt and return them. As for for convenience and gas mileage, I have mixed feelings...on one hand it's not a seller's responsibility how a buyer has arranged a deal to take place post sale and acquisition. In this case though, the seller released the wrong animals to the buyer's agent and had to reclaim at the buyer's inconvenience. So I do feel the seller should compensate the original buyer and she can choose whether or not to compensate her agent. I would cool off for a day, give the seller a call, and see if anything can be worked out.

 

[radera5]

Unfortunately, these don't appear in the order in which is like to address them; but I'm on a mobile device, and won't be screwing around with shifting the order.

Ed,
Are you trying to play devil's advocate in this thread? When compared to the posts, and the facts as they have been presented, your posts don't make much sense.
The OP made an offer of $125 for the snakes. There may have been some confusion regarding specifically which snakes she wanted; but that was clarified in the subsequent messages. The money was sent, along with a specific notation about the snakes. The snakes were picked up at the seller's home. Are you really suggesting that it isn't the seller's responsibility to hand over the correct animals, or to ensure that the correct payment has been received? The time for him to address any discrepancies was before the animals left his possession.
Frankly, I'm surprised that this seller would have, even for a moment, thought it was acceptable to contact the buyer for more money the day after sending the snakes to their new home. He made a mistake - it happens - but nobody in his right mind would think it is okay to contact the buyer the day after delivery asking for more money or the return of the animals.
This thread IS about the experience, the money, etc,etc. The seller didn't ship them, so how they got from from point A to point B isn't his responsibility.

The seller doing the right thing in this case would have been either addressing the discrepancy before the transfer....preferably before the person picking them up was standing at his door; OR, figuring it out after the fact (as he did), chastising himself for his error, and not expecting the buyer to reach into her pocket to fix his mistake.

Unless there is a big piece of this story missing or misrepresented (which is unlikely, given the seller's participation), the seller blew this one. 100% wrong from contacting the buyer to request more money right through showing at Sarah's door to collect them. Giving the refund wasn't "the right thing"; it was simply a requirement for taking the snakes back.


Tad, it was once said, and often repeated, that it's easy to be a "good guy" when everything goes well...it is how one handles the problems that really tells the tale. You asked earlier if you were 100% wrong, and if there was a compromise. FWIW, in my opinion, you were 100% wrong. You were correct that it probably won't have a long lasting impact on your sales; but it will always be there as the time you dropped the ball. You've said that you don't need the money - why not turn this whole thing right back around? Bring the snakes back to Sarah, or ship them to Elisa (on your dime, because this mess should never have happened); recollect the $125 that you originally agreed upon for the snakes; and chalk this whole thing up as a lesson learned. Obviously, that will depend on them being willing to deal with you after that debacle; but it is (IMO) the "right thing to do".

So so happy I didn't have to write all that out. I wanted it to be said but I am beat and heading to bed. So once again, Great post Harald! I agree with everything you said.

Tad...c'mon man.

Easy fix. Make this girls day. Do the right thing. Save some face.
Put this to bed so you can go to bed in peace as well.

There are a lot of us in the industry who wouldn't touch your animals because of something like this, but I'll tell you right now, if you fix it I wouldn't think twice about doing business with you if you had something that caught my eye!

I'm only one person. How many others do you think might feel the same way I do?

THINK ABOUT IT. Do the right thing!

 

[EmeraldBoid]

@emeraldboid I believe tiny salmon mentioned shipping 4 or 5 pages after the post we are talking about. Not sure if this misdirection is intentional or accidental.

I don't have anything to gain from mis directing you. I am a consumer and have considered buying from Tad, so if anything happens I want to make sure I have my stories straight so I can make a decision. If something did offend you though, you have my apologies.

 

[LORDOFWAR187]

Had the seller not asked for more money or the return of the animals it would without a doubt be the buyer's responsibility for the supplies, and drive time it is my opinion, and only my opinion that by requesting the animals be returned, that the buyer is now wrongfully out the time , and supplies for a mistake on the sellers end.

 

[neenach2002]

You guys are all still saying that it was a simple mistake on the sellers end. What you seem to be missing is that we confirmed SIX TIMES with the seller both the price we were paying AND the snakes we were paying for.

The sellers only mistake of as asking for more money after the fact. He clearly did not make a mistake in regards to which animals he was selling us OR the price we were paying for them.

 

[EmeraldBoid]

You guys are all still saying that it was a simple mistake on the sellers end. What you seem to be missing is that we confirmed SIX TIMES with the seller both the price we were paying AND the snakes we were paying for.

The sellers only mistake of as asking for more money after the fact. He clearly did not make a mistake in regards to which animals he was selling us OR the price we were paying for them.

I meant, a mistake in releasing what the seller thought later were the wrong animals for the amount of payment sent. I agree, as I already said, she should be compensated.

 

[Captive Bred Excellence]

I feel I should reply at least once more to clear this up. I advertize with several different ads in more than one place. I just started running these "Deal of the Day" ads on Facebook about a week ago. These are in addition to other ads listed here, kingsnake.com, and my website. There are different prices depending on the ad and if it's a "one day only" ad (price). There are no ads for a Mohave het pied male and normal het female for $125, but there are ads with lower pricing for "het pied pairs". (see her phone text)

The ad regarding the Male mohave het pied male and het female clearly states $175. (also one day only which I honored the following day), normal price $275. I was receiving several private messages from multiple people regarding multiple ads. I never once actually spoke with Elissa, all communications were either pm's or text's. The text shows $125 for a pair of het pieds which I agreed to. She then sent a PayPal payment for $125 and yes she did at that time put the mohave male and het pied. At that point I should have contacted her and requested an additional $50 for that particular pair. Her friend came over soon after I confirmed I had received payment and picked the pair up. I had been busy and hadn't been scrutinizing every detail as I should have and caught the mistake right after she left.

I then sent Elissa a pm letting her know my mistake and left the ball in her court. The next morning (today) her response was what do I want to do about it? I responded that she could send an additional $50 or I would also be willing to issue a refund. She didn't want to do that because she felt I made a mistake and should honor the price. If I had put an ad up for $125 then changed it I wouldn't even question it. That's not what happened. I put an ad up for $175 for a pair of bp's Mohave male het pied and normal female het pied, she sent me $125 and I didn't catch it.

The percieved threat was "I attend all the west coast shows and would
spread the word what a good sellar you are" IF I get the pair for $125. So that tells me if I don't do as she wishes she will spread bad reviews. Sugar coated but a threat none the less.

And to her boyfriend. I have several pairs of mohave het pied and het pieds females for sale. The ad "as you say" I posted after I got the animals back (or before really dosen't matter) is a different pair. If you go back to the classifieds their both there and if you can't tell the difference you weren't really looking. And yes the pair I got back are safely in quaranteen and will not be post them for sale any time soon.

After being called a liar and several other negative things I have maintained my cool and been very polite. I admited I made a mistake and asked that my customer send the correct amount shown in my ad. She refused, threatens me (in a sugar coated way, but cmon!) to get her way. I refund her money in full, drive and get the animals and she launches a hate campaign against me.

Tad Fitzgerald

 

[EmeraldBoid]

I feel I should reply at least once more to clear this up. I advertize with several different ads in more than one place. I just started running these "Deal of the Day" ads on Facebook about a week ago. These are in addition to other ads listed here, kingsnake.com, and my website. There are different prices depending on the ad and if it's a "one day only" ad (price). There are no ads for a Mohave het pied male and normal het female for $125, but there are ads with lower pricing for "het pied pairs". (see her phone text)

The ad regarding the Male mohave het pied male and het female clearly states $175. (also one day only which I honored the following day), normal price $275. I was receiving several private messages from multiple people regarding multiple ads. I never once actually spoke with Elissa, all communications were either pm's or text's. The text shows $125 for a pair of het pieds which I agreed to. She then sent a PayPal payment for $125 and yes she did at that time put the mohave male and het pied. At that point I should have contacted her and requested an additional $50 for that particular pair. Her friend came over soon after I confirmed I had received payment and picked the pair up. I had been busy and hadn't been scrutinizing every detail as I should have and caught the mistake right after she left.

I then sent Elissa a pm letting her know my mistake and left the ball in her court. The next morning (today) her response was what do I want to do about it? I responded that she could send an additional $50 or I would also be willing to issue a refund. She didn't want to do that because she felt I made a mistake and should honor the price. If I had put an ad up for $125 then changed it I wouldn't even question it. That's not what happened. I put an ad up for $175 for a pair of bp's Mohave male het pied and normal female het pied, she sent me $125 and I didn't catch it.

The percieved threat was "I attend all the west coast shows and would
spread the word what a good sellar you are" IF I get the pair for $125. So that tells me if I don't do as she wishes she will spread bad reviews. Sugar coated but a threat none the less.

And to her boyfriend. I have several pairs of mohave het pied and het pieds females for sale. The ad "as you say" I posted after I got the animals back (or before really dosen't matter) is a different pair. If you go back to the classifieds their both there and if you can't tell the difference you weren't really looking. And yes the pair I got back are safely in quaranteen and will not be post them for sale any time soon.

After being called a liar and several other negative things I have maintained my cool and been very polite. I admited I made a mistake and asked that my customer send the correct amount shown in my ad. She refused, threatens me (in a sugar coated way, but cmon!) to get her way. I refund her money in full, drive and get the animals and she launches a hate campaign against me.

Tad Fitzgerald

So the animals where recovered at your expense? When you say, "Drive and get the animals...".

 

[hhmoore]

Vance - please read the thread. Sarah picked up the snakes (from Tad, for Elisa). They were still in Sarah's possession when Tad decided to screw the pooch. Yes, he drove to Sarah to collect them.

 

[Tinysalmon]

I then sent Elisa a pm letting her know my mistake and left the ball in her court. The next morning (today) her response was what do I want to do about it? I responded that she could send an additional $50 or I would also be willing to issue a refund. She didn't want to do that because she felt I made a mistake and should honor the price. If I had put an ad up for $125 then changed it I wouldn't even question it. That's not what happened. I put an ad up for $175 for a pair of bp's Mohave male het pied and normal female het pied, she sent me $125 and I didn't catch it.

The percieved threat was "I attend all the west coast shows and would
spread the word what a good sellar you are" IF I get the pair for $125. So that tells me if I don't do as she wishes she will spread bad reviews. Sugar coated but a threat none the less.

And to her boyfriend. I have several pairs of mohave het pied and het pieds females for sale. The ad "as you say" I posted after I got the animals back (or before really dosen't matter) is a different pair. If you go back to the classifieds their both there and if you can't tell the difference you weren't really looking. And yes the pair I got back are safely in quaranteen and will not be post them for sale any time soon.

After being called a liar and several other negative things I have maintained my cool and been very polite. I admited I made a mistake and asked that my customer send the correct amount shown in my ad. She refused, threatens me (in a sugar coated way, but cmon!) to get her way. I refund her money in full, drive and get the animals and she launches a hate campaign against me.

Why would she go after two snakes that's a higher price and go through all this mess for no reason? That's not her, it's definitely not me. I'm usually extremely relaxed person, that's why I didn't make any irrational gestures or say anything bad in person.

We confirmed with you multiple times. I know people have a lot to jungle, i know our situation was apparently a lot as well. But we asked multiple times, both she and I asked MULTIPLE TIMES that 125 is good. And how do you accept a paypal and a deal without looking at the price. YOU AGREED TO THE 125. You even sexed them in front of me and told me EXACTLY what they were. And that whole time nothing clicked in your head?

That's on you, again. Elisa is being a way better person. And that 'threat' again. Wasn't a Threat. It's not worth the time and effort to go to EVERY Reptile show and say HEY THIS GUY SUCKS. No it's a waste of time. You implied that she was threatening you when there was no threat to begin with. She explained, literally Explained that wal-mart or any other vendor could not do what you just did.

And Honestly, I will call you a liar because this whole situation, the time-line and everything involved literally makes 0 sense. Because 3 hours plus of confirming that indeed it was these two snakes and they were for $125. If I'm about to do a deal, i double check. You either knew perfectly well what was going on, or was just so careless it didn't matter.

And a side note, all the bad things we've said has been one thing overall which is Bad communication. And I've called you a Liar now because you're saying things that do not line up and is indeed lying at this point.

So the animals where recovered at your expense? When you say, "Drive and get the animals...".

Yes I went to him, and than he came to me to pick them up. I didn't have the gas to make more than a single trip.

 

[Celtic Constrictors]

My question is why the heck did you return the snakes?

Seriously?

I would have told mister Tad that the transaction was completed and to double check his inbox where I confirmed the deal six times before it occurred.

 

[[email protected]]

In sales it is 100% up to the seller to ensure that they get what they want out of the deal, as it is with the buyer. Elisa did her part and got what she wanted from the deal, and so did Tad until he'd collected his due and parted with his goods. It's not called a job or career for no reason, it takes skill and effort. Obviously Tad's got those things down when it comes to producing animals, but not business, and that's not Elisa's fault. She cannot monitor all of his ads and correct his mistakes, that's not her job!
Also, to those citing that they need to know all of the facts to see where the fault lies, I call bullsh*t! It doesn't matter how, it only matters what was actually spent. Were the supplies used? Yes. Was the gas spent? Yes. That is what should be refunded, because if he were to ship them with a carrier that is what would be expected. Trying to extract extraneous facts about who handed money to whom for what and scrutinize WHY they did it that was is unnecessary and serves to do nothing BUT misdirect and that's frikkin' plain to see! Treat the business aspects as business and not the plot line of your favorite soap operas, please.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I feel I should reply at least once more to clear this up. I advertize with several different ads in more than one place. I just started running these "Deal of the Day" ads on Facebook about a week ago. These are in addition to other ads listed here, kingsnake.com, and my website. There are different prices depending on the ad and if it's a "one day only" ad (price). There are no ads for a Mohave het pied male and normal het female for $125, but there are ads with lower pricing for "het pied pairs". (see her phone text)

The ad regarding the Male mohave het pied male and het female clearly states $175. (also one day only which I honored the following day), normal price $275. I was receiving several private messages from multiple people regarding multiple ads. I never once actually spoke with Elissa, all communications were either pm's or text's. The text shows $125 for a pair of het pieds which I agreed to. She then sent a PayPal payment for $125 and yes she did at that time put the mohave male and het pied. At that point I should have contacted her and requested an additional $50 for that particular pair. Her friend came over soon after I confirmed I had received payment and picked the pair up. I had been busy and hadn't been scrutinizing every detail as I should have and caught the mistake right after she left.

I then sent Elissa a pm letting her know my mistake and left the ball in her court. The next morning (today) her response was what do I want to do about it? I responded that she could send an additional $50 or I would also be willing to issue a refund. She didn't want to do that because she felt I made a mistake and should honor the price. If I had put an ad up for $125 then changed it I wouldn't even question it. That's not what happened. I put an ad up for $175 for a pair of bp's Mohave male het pied and normal female het pied, she sent me $125 and I didn't catch it.

The percieved threat was "I attend all the west coast shows and would
spread the word what a good sellar you are" IF I get the pair for $125. So that tells me if I don't do as she wishes she will spread bad reviews. Sugar coated but a threat none the less.

And to her boyfriend. I have several pairs of mohave het pied and het pieds females for sale. The ad "as you say" I posted after I got the animals back (or before really dosen't matter) is a different pair. If you go back to the classifieds their both there and if you can't tell the difference you weren't really looking. And yes the pair I got back are safely in quaranteen and will not be post them for sale any time soon.

After being called a liar and several other negative things I have maintained my cool and been very polite. I admited I made a mistake and asked that my customer send the correct amount shown in my ad. She refused, threatens me (in a sugar coated way, but cmon!) to get her way. I refund her money in full, drive and get the animals and she launches a hate campaign against me.

Tad Fitzgerald

Tad, just one question. How many people would actually return the snakes after paying for them because the seller asked for them back because the wrong amount was sent?

You contacted them and told them that you didn't collect the right amount and they had two choices. Send you another fifty dollars or you would refund them and take the snakes back. Many would just tell you to pound sand.

If they were dishonest people that's what they would have done. Would they not? No, they let the return happen. I would suspect they wouldn't be happy about it. Can you blame them? If it was you?

So I don't believe the discrepancy was done to defraud you. They thought they paid the right price and stated it in the transaction. You missed it.

So if they state they are going to tell people that makes them upset about the situation. Should they not be?

Note: That doesn't make them rude and threatening, Ed. That makes them generally unhappy with what has transpired.

Continuing-

They didn't have to do anything but they did give you the snakes back.

Seems to me that this shouldn't have gotten to this point at all.

You let the snakes walk out of your house without the payment you wanted. They sent you texts and paypal confirmation with what the payment was for.

Seems a bit much to to contact them and demand more payment or return them. It's your fault and they gave into your demand for the return.

So if they give you a bit of an attitude I don't think you will find anybody but Ed that seems to be sympathetic. You should be understanding of their frustration of this mistake.

I think if people just take the time and think this through and realize that it was just a mistake and they graciously did what they stated they would by returning the snakes (they certainly didn't have to), Tad, you should be a little more understanding why they take issue with how you handled the situation.

 

[Lucille]

The percieved threat was "I attend all the west coast shows and would
spread the word what a good sellar you are" IF I get the pair for $125. So that tells me if I don't do as she wishes she will spread bad reviews. Sugar coated but a threat none the less.

She neither said nor implied that.
Your buyer has simply related what happened. If it is a bad review, you made it so by your actions.
Lying and making up threats to back what you did made a bad situation worse and makes you look bad.
You can always, at any point, choose to do the right thing and bring back the snakes to you customer, who has not done anything wrong.

launches a hate campaign against me.

Tad Fitzgerald

She has not been hateful, she has simply related what happened; she has every right to share her experience.

 

[hhmoore]

Mr Fitzgerald,
I found myself thinking about this situation overnight; and, Im sorry to say, it bothers me even more in the growing light of morning.
I must declare, at this point, that this (as well as my previous) post is my opinion only. It should in no way be construed as moderation, or the official stance of this site. I make that statement because I am planning to make what might be considered an extreme step after I submit it.

I don't know you from Adam. You have maintained a relatively low profile, and not caused problems; so, I have had no reason to think poorly of you, or the way you do business. This thread has shifted my opinion to negative. That likely doesn't matter to you - I understand that...really, there is no reason that it should. What I would like to think that my statement might do is to lead you to step back and consider WHY. I have no unrealistic expectations there, since it seems that my prior post didn't phase you. It is your business, and how you deal with your customers is up to you.
That said, I am a longtime member of this site and a GGC holder. I am going to point out a statement from the thread explaining that program:

Quite simply, any business or person applying to take part in this program has to agree to do "good business".

I have no doubt that you have many happy customers...but, as I mentioned before, it is when something goes awry that a "good guy" really shines. You aren't shining, sir...and I feel strongly enough that your actions, as described in this thread, are "bad business" that I will be posting a negative vote on your GGC poll.
Make no mistakes - this is not a strong arm tactic to force your hand. I am not involved with the transaction, and really don't care what - if anything - you do in this situation. If you feel that you are in the right, and turn your back on Elisa; I wouldn't give it a second thought. In fact, to be honest, I will probably unsubscribe from this thread right after I vote in your poll.

 

[kerrek]

My question is why the heck did you return the snakes?

Seriously?

I would have told mister Tad that the transaction was completed and to double check his inbox where I confirmed the deal six times before it occurred.

Yeah I have no idea why you returned the snakes. Send him a copy of the paypal receipt and be done with it. The OP is way nicer than I would have been. I could understand if he gave them something else by accident swapping with the correct animals but otherwise too bad.

I also like this little nugget.

They then told us to drop the snakes back off to them, and they will refund me my money afterwards. That sounded really weird to me. I replied again that I was already out $25 on gas money and time so if they wanted the snakes they sold back I would need the money first and they would have to pick up. This is when they said to never do business with them again, which I assure everyone here will not be a problem, and that they will come pick up if they have to.

So you screw up and expect your customer to be out more time and gas to bring the snakes back to fix YOUR MISTAKE are you kidding me? And when they tell you no come get them you tell them to never do business with you again. What a joke.

And as far as the OP tarnishing Captive Bred Excellence's reputation no you did that all on your own.