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Jamaican Boas Breeding
- Thread starter cguarino30
- Start date
cguarino30
Member
Helenthereef
New member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,340
- Reaction score
- 246
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- Age
- 68
- Location
- Fiji Islands South Pacific
Looking great!
toddnbecka
Member
Looking really good, love the colors.
cguarino30
Member
Thanks. It's been really fun watching them develop. I should try to get a side by side with one of the non-feeders for comparison.
cguarino30
Member
Update for Feeding #8:
The six "pinky eaters" were offered unscented fuzzy mice, and one of the six ate it with no hesitation. Good news there. The other five declined. I'm not sure if it was a size issue or as scent issue, or possibly both. I will try scented pinkies next week for these five (and maybe some others) and see what happens.
The anole-eater was offered a f/t chick thigh to no avail. Hopefully, my frozen anole order will arrive soon and these can be offered to him and the two non-feeders, who are starting to look a little weak. I am not optimistic about these two.
All other babies, including the nine holdbacks and the ten non-holdback-non-pinky-eaters (should probably come up with a better name for that group), were offered f/t chick thighs and ate.
Bottom line, things are looking pretty good.
The six "pinky eaters" were offered unscented fuzzy mice, and one of the six ate it with no hesitation. Good news there. The other five declined. I'm not sure if it was a size issue or as scent issue, or possibly both. I will try scented pinkies next week for these five (and maybe some others) and see what happens.
The anole-eater was offered a f/t chick thigh to no avail. Hopefully, my frozen anole order will arrive soon and these can be offered to him and the two non-feeders, who are starting to look a little weak. I am not optimistic about these two.
All other babies, including the nine holdbacks and the ten non-holdback-non-pinky-eaters (should probably come up with a better name for that group), were offered f/t chick thighs and ate.
Bottom line, things are looking pretty good.
Snakesitter
New member
Good work, yet again! Fingers crossed for your order of deceased lizards. ;-)
cguarino30
Member
Well, I have some bad news.
Unfortunately, one of the babies died last night or early this morning. It was one from the "pinky eater" group. I can't really discern any reason for the death. There was no sign of stress or illness that I noticed, and aside from not eating this week (which could be related, but is too broad an occurrence to put too much stock in) I can't think of any sign of illness from the upcoming time period. Aside from the skipped meal on Monday, this one was eating and pooping normally, and behaved the same as all the others. I double checked temps, and everything is the same as the other tubs. I'll keep a close eye on all the others, but my thoughts at this time are that it was a fluke occurrence, like a congenital defect that finally compromised the animal's health. The death looked fairly sudden (the snake was twisted up and upside down), so that would be in keeping with my theory.
I took the opportunity to examine the animal more thoroughly than I have been examining the live siblings, largely due to a fear of inflicting stress. He was exactly 20 inches long, and weighed 16 grams. He was also WAY too small to probe safely, and I had to dissect the tail region to ascertain that he was, in fact, a male.
I'll be keeping a close eye on the rest of the babies, but here's hoping that it was a one-off occurrence.
Unfortunately, one of the babies died last night or early this morning. It was one from the "pinky eater" group. I can't really discern any reason for the death. There was no sign of stress or illness that I noticed, and aside from not eating this week (which could be related, but is too broad an occurrence to put too much stock in) I can't think of any sign of illness from the upcoming time period. Aside from the skipped meal on Monday, this one was eating and pooping normally, and behaved the same as all the others. I double checked temps, and everything is the same as the other tubs. I'll keep a close eye on all the others, but my thoughts at this time are that it was a fluke occurrence, like a congenital defect that finally compromised the animal's health. The death looked fairly sudden (the snake was twisted up and upside down), so that would be in keeping with my theory.
I took the opportunity to examine the animal more thoroughly than I have been examining the live siblings, largely due to a fear of inflicting stress. He was exactly 20 inches long, and weighed 16 grams. He was also WAY too small to probe safely, and I had to dissect the tail region to ascertain that he was, in fact, a male.
I'll be keeping a close eye on the rest of the babies, but here's hoping that it was a one-off occurrence.
Helenthereef
New member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2008
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- 3,340
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- 246
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- Age
- 68
- Location
- Fiji Islands South Pacific
Really sorry to hear that, especially as it was one of the ones doing so well. At least you can be sure it wasn't from lack of care in your husbandry. Sometimes these are mysteries just sent to try us.
Hope the rest continue to prosper
Hope the rest continue to prosper
cguarino30
Member
Thanks. I'm pretty confident that the husbandry is right. I've been racking my brain all day trying to come up with something other than "fluke death" and I can't come up with any other viable theories.
Snakesitter
New member
So sorry for your loss, especially since you have been doing such a careful job! I'm sure it was just a fluke...sadly, not every baby is destined to grow up. :-(
cguarino30
Member
Thanks. I'm sure that's it, too. I just can't help being paranoid.
cguarino30
Member
Everyone is looking well. I just gave them each their meal.
The nine holdbacks were offered the usual chick thigh.
All but one of the non-pinky-eating-non-holdbacks (really need a name for that group) were also fed a chick thigh. One randomly selected baby was offered a scented fuzzy mouse as an experiment (to see if the "pinky eaters" were any more likely to take a scented mouse than a random baby, as I have never offered scented mice until today).
4 of the 5 pinky-eaters, along with the randomly selected baby were offered scented fuzzy mice, which had been mixed in thoroughly with the chick thighs for scenting.
The one baby who ate an unscented fuzzy last time was offered another unscented fuzzy.
The three troublemakers were not fed. I am waiting on a shipment of anoles and will feed them when it arrives this week.
I will update tomorrow with results.
The nine holdbacks were offered the usual chick thigh.
All but one of the non-pinky-eating-non-holdbacks (really need a name for that group) were also fed a chick thigh. One randomly selected baby was offered a scented fuzzy mouse as an experiment (to see if the "pinky eaters" were any more likely to take a scented mouse than a random baby, as I have never offered scented mice until today).
4 of the 5 pinky-eaters, along with the randomly selected baby were offered scented fuzzy mice, which had been mixed in thoroughly with the chick thighs for scenting.
The one baby who ate an unscented fuzzy last time was offered another unscented fuzzy.
The three troublemakers were not fed. I am waiting on a shipment of anoles and will feed them when it arrives this week.
I will update tomorrow with results.
toddnbecka
Member
When the anoles arrive you could try using some to scent the fuzzy mice.
cguarino30
Member
Possibly, but I would prefer not to complicate things. All of the animals that are being offered mice are already established on birds, which I am more than satisfied with. I wouldn't want to risk them becoming dependent on anoles or anole scent. Switching them over to mice isn't that much of a priority to me, so I'm less inclined to take chances.
cguarino30
Member
Well, not a great night.
Everyone who was offered a chick thigh ate with no issues.
Of the five "pinky eaters" that were offered scented fuzzies, four declined to eat. The one that did eat regurged (from the looks of it, only a few minutes ago) and then died. This was one of my healthiest and best eaters. I'm certain that yesterday's feeding caused the death. He (probed and then dissected for verification) was 21 inches long and 18 grams. Judging from the food item, it was consumed early on and only regurged in the early morning. The body is also very fresh (no signs of rigor or dehydration, and no smell). Best I can tell, the food item sat in the belly for a while (partially digested) and then was regurged. I'm not sure if it was due to the item being too large, or due to the item being a rodent. This one has eaten two separate pinkies before, so I'm inclined to think that it was a size issue. A very stupid mistake on my part. The fuzzie was about as big around as the snake, but in retrospect, these guys are designed to eat anoles and other long, slender things, so perhaps that rule is not appropriate for Jamaican Boas. I have heard several stories about regurgitation being exceptionally stressful for these boas, and even adults dieing shortly after a stress-induced regurge, so I definitely should have been more conscientious. Anyone being switched over to rodents will be offered small pinkies only from now on. I would say a better rule of thumb for these guys would be to size the food item based on the width of the animal's head, not its midsection. Considering the risk of regurgitation, and the inclination of this species to overeat and get fatty liver disease, I think erring on the side of smaller food items is an obvious preference.
There is also some important information learned from the body. The dead baby from last week was only 2 grams smaller and 1 inch shorter than this one, but was too small to probe with a rounded off upholstery needle (the smallest probe I have) This one was large enough to probe with that needle. I am still fairly uncomfortable probing a live one at this size, but I think I can safely anticipate live probing at around 24 inches. I also take some solace in the fact that both of the babies that I have lost so far were males, as obviously females are more essential to future breeding, and will be easier to find homes for.
The other piece of important information here is regarding the randomly selected non-pinky eater. This was the only other snake that ate its fuzzy (intentionally the smallest fuzzy offered). This is important to note because it indicates that an animals willingness to eat the unscented pinky placed alongside a chick thigh is not an indication of whether or not the animal will take a scented rodent on its own. There does not appear to be much of a correlation in the "pinky eating" and "non-pinky eating" groups with regard to the consumption of unscented and scented rodents. I suspect that my "pinky eaters" are in fact a randomly selected group of animals that just happened to be a little extra hungry on a feeding or two. Scenting appears to be more of a factor than previous successful consumption.
Everyone who was offered a chick thigh ate with no issues.
Of the five "pinky eaters" that were offered scented fuzzies, four declined to eat. The one that did eat regurged (from the looks of it, only a few minutes ago) and then died. This was one of my healthiest and best eaters. I'm certain that yesterday's feeding caused the death. He (probed and then dissected for verification) was 21 inches long and 18 grams. Judging from the food item, it was consumed early on and only regurged in the early morning. The body is also very fresh (no signs of rigor or dehydration, and no smell). Best I can tell, the food item sat in the belly for a while (partially digested) and then was regurged. I'm not sure if it was due to the item being too large, or due to the item being a rodent. This one has eaten two separate pinkies before, so I'm inclined to think that it was a size issue. A very stupid mistake on my part. The fuzzie was about as big around as the snake, but in retrospect, these guys are designed to eat anoles and other long, slender things, so perhaps that rule is not appropriate for Jamaican Boas. I have heard several stories about regurgitation being exceptionally stressful for these boas, and even adults dieing shortly after a stress-induced regurge, so I definitely should have been more conscientious. Anyone being switched over to rodents will be offered small pinkies only from now on. I would say a better rule of thumb for these guys would be to size the food item based on the width of the animal's head, not its midsection. Considering the risk of regurgitation, and the inclination of this species to overeat and get fatty liver disease, I think erring on the side of smaller food items is an obvious preference.
There is also some important information learned from the body. The dead baby from last week was only 2 grams smaller and 1 inch shorter than this one, but was too small to probe with a rounded off upholstery needle (the smallest probe I have) This one was large enough to probe with that needle. I am still fairly uncomfortable probing a live one at this size, but I think I can safely anticipate live probing at around 24 inches. I also take some solace in the fact that both of the babies that I have lost so far were males, as obviously females are more essential to future breeding, and will be easier to find homes for.
The other piece of important information here is regarding the randomly selected non-pinky eater. This was the only other snake that ate its fuzzy (intentionally the smallest fuzzy offered). This is important to note because it indicates that an animals willingness to eat the unscented pinky placed alongside a chick thigh is not an indication of whether or not the animal will take a scented rodent on its own. There does not appear to be much of a correlation in the "pinky eating" and "non-pinky eating" groups with regard to the consumption of unscented and scented rodents. I suspect that my "pinky eaters" are in fact a randomly selected group of animals that just happened to be a little extra hungry on a feeding or two. Scenting appears to be more of a factor than previous successful consumption.
Snakesitter
New member
Awww, I'm so sorry to hear you lost one! On the flip side, I'm very impressed by the fact you did such a thorough analysis of what happened and why. I know professional breeders who won't spend $5 (much less five minutes) on sick/deceased animals, as it "hurts" their bottom line -- so huge points for the extra time and effort on behalf of such an underrepresented species!
cguarino30
Member
Thanks. I'm in this for the love of the species and my own enjoyment, so bottom line isn't really a priority.
toddnbecka
Member
Sorry to hear of another loss. It seems odd that a snake would eat something too big in the first place, then regurgitate it partially digested. I've only ever heard of snakes doing that when they were stressed.
On the other hand, if the rodent factor was the cause it seems likely that more than one would have been affected.
It's not really possible to draw a sound conclusion from a single incident, just hoping it remains a single incident. Sometimes it's simply bad luck.
On the other hand, if the rodent factor was the cause it seems likely that more than one would have been affected.
It's not really possible to draw a sound conclusion from a single incident, just hoping it remains a single incident. Sometimes it's simply bad luck.
cguarino30
Member
This one was by far one of my best eaters, so I think that might have contributed to the whole eyes/stomach issue. Unless something happened in my absence, I can't imagine what could have caused the stress. I have adopted the practice of not even being in the room after feeding, because I know they are so prone to ignoring their food if they are stressed out. I'm thinking bad luck, too. So far, everybody else looks good, including the other fuzzy eater.