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Info Gage Cuff (Buyer Beware)

meowmeowkazoo

meowmeowkazoo

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This person is selling a super motley boa constrictor on a local classifieds website. He is doing so without any disclosure of the health issues that super motleys have, which causes them to die after a year or two.

I found him on here (mrcuff), selling other animals (the super motley is not listed here). I would not trust this seller with a dime, given his failure to provide full disclosure locally, where perhaps he thought he wouldn't be noticed.

Buyer beware.
 

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Isnt this like saying the seller should disclose that spider bps have wobble? I dont personally feel like the seller has to disclose that these particular morphs have a supposed health issue. Any buyer purchasing something like this should do enough research to know the issues that particular breeds can portray.
 
I think it's a bit of a gray area, somewhat akin to the female Desert BP reproductive issues. There was a BOI thread from a couple of years ago that tackled that very subject. As that thread showed, there's a noticeable schism between the research vs. disclosure crowds. I don't keep up with the morph craze, so I didn't even know about the super motley longevity issue. Not everyone who keeps snakes makes it a huge part of their lives, researching every minute detail of every available gene.

Some people just want something pretty to keep. With that in mind, I'm sure there are a great many people who - despite having done more than enough research to achieve effective general husbandry practices for any given species - simply don't even realize that any particular gene could be inherently deadly. IMO, such issues should be disclosed. I also think it becomes a bit more of an imperative, when the inference can be made that the ad was intentionally posted in a place where it was less likely to be read by those who'd know there even was an issue - like a classified site that isn't herp-specific.
 
Maybe he doesn't even realize that super motleys are a lethal gene. I don't think he should be hung if he doesn't realize it himself. Did you contact the seller?

But I will say if he does know it is his duty to disclose that information.
I'm not a boa guy but I have read about them. They can live for a little while but it sounds like ultimately they are going to live a very short life.
 
craigwyatt said:
Maybe he doesn't even realize that super motleys are a lethal gene. I don't think he should be hung if he doesn't realize it himself.
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There is always that possibility. The cynic in me assumes that certain types of people may be quick to latch onto that premise as their justification for non-disclosure, since it'd be pretty hard to disprove that they didn't know something. Of course, maybe he just doesn't think he should be obligated to provide that info. However, those same cynical tendencies make me wonder why he chose not to post that ad here on Fauna. Maybe he simply didn't get around to it yet, since it is a new listing; maybe there's a more sinister reason. :shrug01:

It's admittedly a bit of a double standard, but I have more trouble excusing the ignorance of someone selling an animal - especially someone who's somewhat active in reptile sales. I think that it can be argued that there's more onus on a dealer to know exactly what they're dealing in.
 
leftycrane said:
Isnt this like saying the seller should disclose that spider bps have wobble? I dont personally feel like the seller has to disclose that these particular morphs have a supposed health issue. Any buyer purchasing something like this should do enough research to know the issues that particular breeds can portray.
Click to expand...

It's really not. Spider ball pythons don't die from having wobble. All super motleys die at or before two years of age. This is selling an animal with a guaranteed expiration date.
 
meowmeowkazoo said:
It's really not. Spider ball pythons don't die from having wobble. All super motleys die at or before two years of age. This is selling an animal with a guaranteed expiration date.
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:iagree:

There has never been a recorded super mot living longer than 2 years, when the average captive boa constrictor imperator can live for 20+ years when fed properly and taken care of.

So, by not disclosing this to a potential buyer, this person is in effect lying to them.
 
meowmeowkazoo said:
All super motleys die at or before two years of age.
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Snake-Queen said:
There has never been a recorded super mot living longer than 2 years,
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While they do generally die early, Alex at Boa Republic has (or had, it's been a few years since I talked to him) a male Central American super motley that was over 4 years old but yes, it is fairly rare and generally breeding for super motleys is discouraged. I don't think it's a great idea for someone to be selling one with no disclosure, but that's just my opinion.
 
You bring up a good point Dan. It is kinda funny he didn't post it here. He would have been called out prob within 10 mins of hitting the submit button.
But I'd like to hear the sellers story before I make up my mind.
 
April if I'm not mistaken the CA super mot is not the lethal one. I do believe those are safe. But the typical super mot is the lethal one. I'll have to look up where I saw that, may have even been told that by a breeder. I think it was in a group I'm no longer part of.
 
I can't find anything right now, so I'm pretty sure it was in a group and was said by a breeder or two. That CA super motleys live but Colombians always die an early death.
 
All Super Motleys are lethal eventually. CA, Colombian or CA/Colombian. The CA and CA/Colombians can last longer and some have produced, but the inevitable outcome is atrophy of already depleted muscle groups that cause organ failure in the animal.

Sellers should state these known issues and, really, should not be selling Super Motleys.

Tom Burke had one that was six-years-old some years ago, whether or not it is still alive, I do not know. Tibor Papp has a variety of them in the 3-6 range, maybe a few older, he does not publicly post a great deal, so I do not not know for certain the ages of his either.

Slow growing them seems to prolong their lives. Since CA can breed much smaller than Colombian, that is likely the only reason why they have reproduced.
 
As was already stated, this is a bit of a grey area. In my opinion, the pricing reflects the value of an animal with a rare yet damaged genetic line. $300 is not a great deal of money for a Boa morph, particularly a very pretty and unique one.

That being said, these animals do not have a long lifespan. I know of a handful that have reached 4+ years. I don't know how many were produced so I can't attest to how many died before 2 years.

My wife and I own a Great Dane. The average lifespan is somewhere in the ballpark of 8 years. That's super short for a dog. Some live to 13+ but it's uncommon. Dane breeders don't typically talk to buyers about lifespan with this animal either.

*Shrug* I don't think he's in the wrong here necessarily.
 
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