Info Ben Siegel Troubles

[EPICRATES]

Why is this thread on the BOI?

 

[C0rocad]

I normally lurk and I think this is actually my first post on these boards but having an (estranged) father suffering from bi-polar schizophrenia who refuses to seek help and/or medication I wanted to share my thoughts.

Last I've heard from his father all his pure bred dogs have died at very young ages due to his neglect and it breaks my heart.

I'm well aware how toothless the mental healthy care in this society is and how impossible it is for a person who does not want help to be forced to get it.

If he is truly refusing treatment a court order to keep him away from animals is a god send and if he was in a right frame of mind he would probably agree.

Due to the unfortunate fact of schizophrenia having genetic links and children of schizophrenics have a greater chance of being schizophrenic themselves I had my living will amended to include that upon a verified diagnosis whomever has my power of attorney will liquidate my entire animal collection for the safety of the animals.

And If I even suspected that I was developing symptoms I would do it in a heartbeat myself.

If he refused help then he should bare the full brunt of his actions.

 

[rosebud945]

Dominic, thank you for sharing your personal experience here. Dealing with schizophrenia in your father must be extremely difficult, and it is commendable that you are taking steps to ensure the welfare of your animals should you develop problems yourself. That is commendable.

You said that your father has bi polar schizophrenia. Is he both bi polar and schizophrenic? As far as I know, Ben has been diagnosed as bi polar, though the judge did order a psych eval.

 

[C0rocad]

Dominic, thank you for sharing your personal experience here. Dealing with schizophrenia in your father must be extremely difficult, and it is commendable that you are taking steps to ensure the welfare of your animals should you develop problems yourself. That is commendable.

You said that your father has bi polar schizophrenia. Is he both bi polar and schizophrenic? As far as I know, Ben has been diagnosed as bi polar, though the judge did order a psych eval.

I had not seen him in close to 10 years until I met up with about 6 months ago and knew something was up. He was living alone in a run down house constantly watching CCTV feeds and talking about how "Best Buy" was stalking him and hacking his phones and how his family was trying to kill him. All of his animals are gone presumed dead I have no idea for how long though. Once I found out he still had firearms in the house I left.

I contacted his ex wife and was told he started acting like this a few years back and refused help and basically alienated his entire family. Since I am his only son I was able to get him put on a 72 hour hold and they diagnosed him there. Unfortunately, once the 72 hours expired he refused treatment and that's the last I've heard from him other than 2 threatening text messages.

Sometimes I think things would of been different if he had some in his life able to tough it out and get him help and if I had a different relationship with him I would not take no for an answer and get him help.

As harsh as it sounds if Mr.Seigal has people in his life who care for him they would use any dirty trick in the book to get him help, It may ruin your relationship with him but it will save his life.

 

[Switzer Reptiles Inc.]

Depending upon your reptiles of choice, you may or may not know that the same week as Ben's arrest, another prominent, well-liked member of this community lost his teenage son due to mental issues. Not one single person has put forth anything but sympathy and prayers. Not one person has suggested that, had he not stopped taking his meds, he would be alive. I haven't seen any "you should've known" or "why the past free passes?" As yet, no one has compared him to mass murderers like Lanza and Holmes. Our hearts break for this man, and his child. Yes, the child had plenty of 'instances' in his past. Does the difference lie in the involvement of the bearded dragon? God, I hope not.

Agree with Noelle.

 

[ophidile]

... The issue of "guilt" vs "insanity" is up to Ben's treatment team and the courts. Kind of strange to see someone who is a professional in the mental health field be ready to diagnose and defend someone they've never spoken to, seen their medical record, or treated.

Ben's actions sound criminal and yet he's savvy enough that his business is still running in his name. I can't defend or condemn the man beyond saying that it sounds like someone not to do business with and who shouldn't have animals in their care anymore.

 

[AirborneMan21]

... The issue of "guilt" vs "insanity" is up to Ben's treatment team and the courts. Kind of strange to see someone who is a professional in the mental health field be ready to diagnose and defend someone they've never spoken to, seen their medical record, or treated.

Ben's actions sound criminal and yet he's savvy enough that his business is still running in his name. I can't defend or condemn the man beyond saying that it sounds like someone not to do business with and who shouldn't have animals in their care anymore.

If you have read everything in this thread you would've read he isn't running his shop, It's being run by employees.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Reading a lot of the posts on this thread makes me realize that the American public is still back in the 80's as far as understanding of mental illness. It's a sad thing, honestly.

You couldn't be more accurate. It's evident by the posts saying that "he knew what would happen if he went off his meds and therefore should be held responsible". People clearly don't understand the disconnect from reality. Anthony McCain is a prime example. He is also bi-polar and schizophrenic, and he chose not to take his medications because they made him "foggy" and unable to think clearly or plan out all his genetics and punnet squares (basically prevented his manic periods of thought -- which in his mind constituted genetic genius and being a breeder ahead of the game). To Anthony, being off his meds was no big deal. He "didn't need them" and could function fine. He had literally no comprehension of the actual reality of his manic, aggressive, ranting behavior, extreme paranoia, delusional state of mind, hallucinations, severe neglect and deaths of his animals, etc. I mean, his animals were dying left and right, he was shipping snakes in dirty socks and pantyhose, taking pictures of snakes placed on snowmen he built, and eating only 1 hot dog and 1 piece of bread per day. Yet he still thought he was perfectly fine, perfectly functional, and that his meds did more bad than good so he didn't need them. Despite how many attempts people made to get Anthony help, despite all his run-ins with law enforcement, he had to finally go off the major deep end and get arrested for some heavy stuff before a judge FINALLY connected the dots and forced him into a state-run institution to get help.

What people don't understand is that to someone that suffers from these severe psychiatric disorders, that is "normal" behavior. Their minds cannot connect cause-and-effect -- that not taking their medications has negative consequences and their behavior is abnormal/dangerous. People also need to realize that EVERY disorder is different and every person is different. Just because you're a mild bi-polar or schizophrenic that is currently managed well on medication, and you couldn't fathom doing these kind of things...doesn't mean someone else has just as moderate of a case or is just as well managed on medication. Nor that they don't have different life/situational factors greatly compounding their disorder symptoms and manifestation.

Anyone who has a basic grasp of pharmacology knows that most antidepressants and antipsychotics take WEEKS of regular doses to build up to therapeutic levels in the body and have any kind of effect. Most of these drugs also are an initial guesstimate that then needs to be tweaked and adjusted by the attending psychiatrist to fit each patient's needs after the therapeutic level has been reached and efficacy can be evaluated. For someone with severe paranoia, manic episodes, etc...getting those regular doses into their system over the 4-6 weeks needed to get to that therapeutic level is VERY difficult. If they miss 2-3 pills a week, they're never going to achieve the full function of that medication. If someone goes off their meds for a week or two, the drugs' half-lives would expire and they would be cleared from their system (excreted by the kidneys and liver). The person couldn't just start taking them again and immediately "feel better"...they would have to go through the whole 4-6 week building period again in order for the medications to have an effect.

Ben is going down a very similar path as Anthony with the increased paranoia, aggression, episodes of manic thoughts and behavior,.outbursts and dissociative episodes, and run-ins with the law. People around him seem to be trying to help him (or at least say they are), but friends/family can't force someone if they aren't ready or willing. Hopefully this latest episode is Ben's "deep end" and the state of Florida will commit him to a residential program or inpatient facility where he has no choice but to get the help he desperately needs. Hopefully he will get accurately, thoroughly evaluated and correctly diagnosed, get put on an appropriate and effective medication plan, and receive the psychiatric counseling and behavioral therapy needed to round everything out. Ben is sick with a disease that he did not ask for and I'm willing to bet he sure as hell didn't want. He deserves the chance to have that disease treated and get his mind, his body, and his life back under control, no different than the rest of us.

 

[DISCERN]

Ben is sick with a disease that he did not ask for and I'm willing to bet he sure as hell didn't want. He deserves the chance to have that disease treated and get his mind, his body, and his life back under control, no different than the rest of us.

Excellent words and input! I could not agree more.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

I don't think he has lost his compassion for animals.

He hasn't. I posted this info on a FB discussion in response to claims he "could care less about his animals or their health":


In Ben's increasing state of paranoia, he was specifically worried about cases of Hantavirus he had heard about that were contracted and spread via lungworm, and also concerned about IBD. He was so worried that he contacted me 3.5 months ago regarding testing and recommendations on the best DVM to handle those kind of diagnostics. He shipped 11 hatchling ball pythons (from a big-name breeder) up here to Dr. Mike Wenninger in order to have them quarantined and have fecals, bloodwork, tracheal washes, cultures, PCR's for IBD and PMV, you name it. 2 of the snakes are high-dollar world firsts, 3-4 were for his personal collection, and the others are run of the mill single genes he was likely going to put up for sale/auction. 2 of the snakes I was supposed to keep here myself after they were cleared by Dr. Mike, so I could pursue some project ideas Ben and I had. Supposedly it was his way of thanking me for my advice/info and helping with the group, and also thanking me for what I went through in 2008 and how much effort I've put into spreading awareness and education regarding viruses and quarantine procedures. HOWEVER, given his recent issues and everything that has happened, I really have no idea how lucid he was at that time so I'm not taking much stock in it. The 2 are still with the others at the clinic.

Ben shipped these 11 snakes straight up here 24 hours after they arrived to him. He never unboxed them, just checked the packages to ensure they were OK, kept them warm in his office, and sent them off to Dr. Mike. He had ordered them awhile back and between when he placed the order and when they were shipped, he started worrying and thinking he should have a full panel of tests. I don't remember if he said why, other than that part of it was he didn't want to risk his personal collection -- I'd have to go back through all the PM's. But they were never unpacked or added to any racks or near any other snakes at BSR. They arrived to Ben on September 24th, he shipped them the 25th, and they arrived to Dr. Mike on the 26th. So he was still relatively cognizant, thinking with the best interests of the animals in mind.

Those snakes are all still up here in veterinary quarantine, 3.5 months after arriving. All but one are eating and doing very well (a tiny 37g male did not survive, COD was inappetence and failure to thrive). The reason the snakes are still up here is simple lack of communication. The clinic has been repeatedly trying to get in touch with someone at the store. Given Ben's issues, absence from the store since October, and repeated arrests, he hasn't really been available. Multiple messages were left for Tom, and he has only called back once -- which was about 3 weeks after they arrived here I believe. I e-mailed Amir via his S@S website and also sent him a PM on Facebook, both on October 22nd. Then I contacted Brian Barczyk that same afternoon and asked if he could text/call Amir to let him know I had e-mailed him and needed him to address the snakes at the clinic. Brian did reach out to Amir and confirmed with me. Yet no one at the clinic has ever gotten a call from Amir and I never got a reply to my e-mail or my PM. Ben did finally call about 2-3 weeks after Tom; he explained what he wanted done for testing and reiterated the plans for 2 of the snakes to stay here (again, I wasn't sure if I should trust that). No one has been able to reach them since then, however. So for now, they keep sitting up here, feeding and shedding and waiting.

So while Ben clearly does have some problems he needs to work through, and seems to be having moments where he is acting rashly and unfortunately a beardie was caught up in it, he DOES still appear to still care about the welfare of his animals and ensuring their health before potentially exposing them to his own collection or to any of his store stock (and thus exposing customers and their collections).

If you have not suffered from mental illness nor intimately known anyone with mental illness, then perhaps you should not be so quick to judge. By "you", I mean the collective you. There are dozens of different mental diseases and disorders, and hundreds of sub-categories and sub-classifications underneath the umbrella of each disorder. Many of them do affect a person's ability to judge right from wrong, refrain from rash or abusive actions, maintain self-control, halt racing thoughts or panic attacks, and maintain a connection to reality. In the moment, most don't realize what they're doing until after the fact. While this is NOT an excuse or justification for such behavior, it IS an explanation...and one perhaps deserving more of empathy and understanding than judgement and condemnation.

 

[SirenSanJose]

The possibility of it intensifying? It already has, he had attacked several people, got arrested for cocaine AND has now attacked people while abusing an animal. He is showing a pattern of increase. He needs to be, I hate to say it, locked in a facility where he can get help, and only once he's stable and can show he's capable let out. They do this quite often with the mentally ill. It's not just a punishment but treatment as well. He doesn't need jailed and forgot about, he needs held in a facility and given treatment and a "parole" that requires him to continue therapy, medication, and so on. But I'm sure I'll be told I don't understand yet again. Even though I do have issues of my own and a son with autism (yes different from big polar but still a disorder) I'm incompassionate I just think differently than many on this thread I guess. Even though my son is autistic and cannot always control his actions does that mean he shouldn't get a time out or some type of punishment? No it doesnt, because he needs to learn whats wrong and try to learn better behaviors.

Nope, this is EXACTLY what he needs. He needs to be committed to a full-time care facility until this can be managed. I'm HORRIFIED no one close to him called for a psych hold on him before it got to this point.

What he does NOT need, and is lacking compassion, is to be thrown in jail while still in the throes of a psychotic break. Or the cries of "he deserved it, I hope he is (sexually assaulted) by other inmates" -- which yes, I've seen people say.

 

[ElexisC]

Nope, this is EXACTLY what he needs. He needs to be committed to a full-time care facility until this can be managed. I'm HORRIFIED no one close to him called for a psych hold on him before it got to this point.

What he does NOT need, and is lacking compassion, is to be thrown in jail while still in the throes of a psychotic break. Or the cries of "he deserved it, I hope he is (sexually assaulted) by other inmates" -- which yes, I've seen people say.

That quoted post was supposed to say I'm not* incompassionate, but anyways who in the world is saying he needs locked in jail and sexually assualted?? Whoever is saying that needs just as much help as he does!

 

[SirenSanJose]

That quoted post was supposed to say I'm not* incompassionate, but anyways who in the world is saying he needs locked in jail and sexually assualted?? Whoever is saying that needs just as much help as he does!

Loudmouths on facebook. Lots of them. Along with saying he needs to fry, etc. Because apparently having a psychotic break is the worst crime in the history of mankind, because the object he *happened to be holding* at the moment that impulse overtook him was a lizard. The majority opinion is that he needs to "pay for his crimes" and suffer in jail.

It is a very small minority who are even saying "look, we don't want him around animals or people right now EITHER, but we want him in a psych facility getting the treatment he needs, not in prison or tied up in court". He's 'guilty' in their eyes for "choosing to stop taking his meds" or "he had enough chances" or "there's no way he didn't know right from wrong".

 

[NTReptiles]

Loudmouths on facebook. Lots of them. Along with saying he needs to fry, etc. Because apparently having a psychotic break is the worst crime in the history of mankind, because the object he *happened to be holding* at the moment that impulse overtook him was a lizard. The majority opinion is that he needs to "pay for his crimes" and suffer in jail.

It is a very small minority who are even saying "look, we don't want him around animals or people right now EITHER, but we want him in a psych facility getting the treatment he needs, not in prison or tied up in court". He's 'guilty' in their eyes for "choosing to stop taking his meds" or "he had enough chances" or "there's no way he didn't know right from wrong".

Siren, I agree with you. It is actually very saddening that no one cared enough about him to have him Baker acted. While I believe he must pay his crimes, a couple years in a psych clinic is what he needs. If this was a 1 time incident, then I wouldn't even really care about it. But Ben has proven time and time again that he is in need of help, and I hope that he gets it.

 

[snakesareawesome]

Well, that's more than enough to make me avoid him. I don't really take kindly to people who abuse animals. I really have zero tolerance for such things as I am sure many other animal lovers do, too. They are more than just a price tag!

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Well, that's more than enough to make me avoid him. I don't really take kindly to people who abuse animals. I really have zero tolerance for such things as I am sure many other animal lovers do, too. They are more than just a price tag!

Apparently you didn't read anything in this thread.

 

[Xaila]

I'm pretty sure he has been put under psych hold. Several times. They can only hold you for 72 hours legally. After that there's not much they can do to make you stay if you want to go.

Also, I think he's schizophrenic and bipolar rather than just bipolar...which makes a lot more sense.

 

[JCCS]

That's just not true about the 72 hrs. That's the maximum stay off the bat, but if once you are in there they decide you need to stay longer, it can be longer. It's generally not more than a couple weeks, unfortunately, though.

 

[tylersmith]

Whole lot of judging and speculating here...as always. I never post here but now is as good a time as any. Fact is, nobody here knows exactly what goes on at Ben's shop. This is likely the first REPORTED incident. These kind of things dont just happen once. As someone who has seen a few very close friends go through drug addiction and suffer mentally (some of them losing the battle) I can honestly say that i hope he gets the help he needs in prison, sometimes that's what i takes, and i hope he's not allowed near any other animals. Lost that privelage. There's my 2 cents.

 

[smwboxer]

Was just in the shop this afternoon. As usual, the place was spotless, animals healthy and staff busy caring for their stock. The stores mascot adult Rhino iguana was happily enjoying the scratches offered by customers.