Bad Guy Avangel Reptiles- parasitic reptiles, and more

[KFoxysGeckos]

It says on your page that youre a veteran.... you just said your not.
My dad was army, as well as both of my grandparents, my stepdad, my stepmoms dad, my cousin(active), my brother in law (active airforce), both of my husband's parents are vets, as well as his grandfather, we also have active friends- one stationed in california currently.
If you are not... stop with the stolen valor. Its a crime, and disrespectful.

 

[jusmebabee]

I thought of a million ways to argue my point, to defend my business, to try and convince you people of jury and judge, but honestly at this point, it's rare that someone that has something good to say will actually come out and say it. (It's like good reviews and bad reviews) the good just never gets a chance to shine.

So, with that being said, I Chaz of Avangel Reptiles, will say what I have to say, and I will respond no more. I have been breeding and selling geckos for far longer than some of the people on here arguing and cursing my business and I. I have always been true to my customers, and treated them with the utmost respect. This is business and I would like to find the best way possible to right a wrong without both parties at a loss. Granted, unbeknownst to me, I did not intentionally send ill geckos. It has not, nor will it ever be what I stand for. There are some upset customers out there that feel cheated. I apologize you feel that way, but I have been fully responsive to any and all questions that they may have. I'm ashame it took you all 4 pages worth of comments before you decided to inform me of this thread, but now that is besides the point. For those of you out there that read this thread, knowing I gave honest and great customer service, and refuse to post your experience, it is for that reason why this should not be called a community any longer. I'm going to clear up a few things. I use a DSLR Camera on a white backdrop with natural light, light bulbs. I do not in anyway falsify a geckos appearance what so ever. Take a picture, with a white background and a carpet background with the same lighting and tell me you don't see a difference. Honestly, even though this has gotten way out of hand, you pet owners have taught me a lot. Just don't sale to inexperience people. I sold 100's of geckos, and now my first issue makes me the big bad enemy. Where is my validation in customer service? Also, I never told that girl I was a retired vet. It says I was in the military. There is a difference. Soldiers are contracted, and mine was a for a few years, and yes what I saw in my time in Iraq is (human) mass murders, destruction, and so much more. Us humans are so quick to kill and conquer based on jealousy and greed. So to say I sent reptiles intentionally with parasites is inhuman, the parasites the geckos had when shipped was a mere accident. There was no intentions about it. It's funny, the only time you all seem to band together, is when you are trying to take someone down, or the government is trying to take the reptile industry down. I'm tired of fighting for and against people on here. I came into this industry to make a difference, and the only difference I made, is nothing. Thank you for hearing me out.

You said a whole lot of nothing.
You whine alot about people not publicly recognizing you. Me me me me is what i hear and not a single answer to questions asked of you.

What does a customer buying gecko's from you have to do with your serving in the military? I know many people including family who served in war zones but I never hear them mention it or use it as some kind of sympathy card.
State your case and leave it at that. I personally have nothing invested in this but the way a person responds says alot about credibility.

 

[mikew1234]

Chaz, As with a few others who posted, I'm surprised about this. You can claim no fault, but there are way more issues brought up here about you than Nikki and Kayla. If I were you, I would have cleaned EVERYTHING involved with my animals. If your producing your own crickets, they would have been destroyed. If your purchasing from someone, I would have cut that tie immediately. Mistakes happen, but seeing at least 3 of the 6 geckos having worms means this is a problem. If I were you, I'd consider after finding the issue and fixing it, to downsize your collection. It's hard to admit, but we burn ourselves out when we have hundreds of animals. I know from experience. This is a hobby for most. When it's become no fun, it's time to take a step back.
People usually come forward with issues much more often than compliments. I've had hundreds of transactions over the years. There is no BOI on me, good, bad, buyer, or seller related.
Inhumanely treating anything is wrong. Hell, my animals tend to eat better than I do (it shows..)
I'm not understanding the military thing, but it's totally irrelevant. For every good soldier I know, I also know one who doesn't deserve a moment of time from anyone. If you chose to serve your country, that's great and honorable. But it doesn't in any way reflect you as a person.
It doesn't look good that you tried to hide the issue and blame the two who brought it up. They're leopard geckos. There shouldn't be a parasite load. These aren't issues that arise regularly in them.
With that being said, good luck with the whole situation. I feel for you two, Nikki and Kayla. Hoping for the best for your animals. And I hope Chaz steps his stuff up here. Bad excuses and a bad situation always makes you look bad.

 

[Lucille]

I'm tired of fighting for and against people on here. I came into this industry to make a difference, and the only difference I made, is nothing.

If you are tired of the business, get out. I agree you have not made a difference. Someone who wanted to make a difference would take their critter's health seriously, focussed on the critter's health instead of whining; yet you seem to be doing is brushing off the valid complaints made against you.
It is the transactions that go wrong that show what sort of person you really are. I'm not impressed. You've let down your buyer, and you've let down your critters.

 

[Pasodama]

Chaz, in your post I saw not much more than a little self back patting and complaining.
Whether you sent out ill geckos intentionally, or not, the fact of the matter is that it did occur and you have not addressed how you will make, or have made, things right.

The worms, and dull/skinny geckos, are not the fault of the buyers (be they newbies or highly experienced). It certainly appears that they arrived, in that condition, from You to your customers.

Not only do you have unsatisfied customers, that need to be properly addressed, you also appear to have some husbandry issues to address & correct.

Instead of complaining, trying to lay blame elsewhere, and behaving as though you can do no wrong, you should concentrate on making things right, with your customers, and immediately address your husbandry issues.

 

[KFoxysGeckos]

Just wanted to throw some happy news in, its been over a month and Mew finally ate on her own this morning! After 2 days of carnivore care, she ate quite a few tiny baby dubias

 

[juliasara]

I was really going to stay out of this but there are a few points that bother me. First of all,, how does ARMION cure parasites? I saw in some of the text posted that you told the owners of the geckos you were using it to get rid of parasites and they should use it to treat for them. I'm just really curious how that works. I had all the respect for you in the world chaz and at first I wanted to believe that none of this was true and you weren't to blame and the girls were over reacting but with all the evidence presented here it's really hard for me to believe you did no wrong here. And if the things said here are true I'm honestly disgusted! Can you please for everyone's sake address the issues people have brought up? Like the feeding of sick geckos to your roaches, is that true? That bothers me the most! And if your entire collection has parasites it's going to take agressive treatment and cleaning to get rid of them at this point. And the military stuff, I'm not saying you aren't telling the truth about any of that but it honestly sounds like back paddling to me. I hope I'm proven wrong about that and the other thoughts running through my head but your post didn't do a very good job of putting those thoughts to rest!
That being said I personally did not have a really bad experience with chaz. I purchased a jar of his multi vitamin ARMION a few months back and it shipped quickly. When I got it I noticed huge clumps that were hard as rocks in it. I left a review on his site saying that my jar was unusable because of the chunks and chaz text me apologizing and told me he made a new batch of ARMION and that he had added more of a few ingredients for breeding season and this batch didn't have clumps. He offered to send me a free sample of the new batch, which he did. I used that sample and didn't have any issues with the product and my geckos seemed to like it! I wasn't able to feed them it for very long tho the sample was small and with 40+ geckos it didn't last long. And the jar had so many hard clumps I was too afraid to use that with my geckos I just fed it to my feeders, which kinda pissed me off I didn't spend as much as I did on it to feed it to my feeders but not much I can do about that now! Anyway as I said i didn't have a horrible experience. Figured I'd share some of the good since it's been all bad here!

 

[Pasodama]

BTW Things can go wrong, on occasion, with even the best in the industry.
A seldom occurring "mistake or two", in itself, will not destroy a business.
However, the manner in which a person/business handles things, including their behavior, can make or break a business.
Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Pasodama]

Just wanted to throw some happy news in, its been over a month and Mew finally ate on her own this morning! After 2 days of carnivore care, she ate quite a few tiny baby dubias

That is great!
Hope things continue to improve.

 

[KFoxysGeckos]

That is great!
Hope things continue to improve.

Thank you! Me too!

 

[Kristi23]

Chaz, I'd like to hear why you shipped those geckos the way you did. Not only the condition of the animals, but also the box.

I've always gotten along fine with you and you know I'm not some newbie. I'm so disappointed in this whole situation right now. You need to take a step back and realize that you're making this worse. Anyone can have an issue at any time. Geckos can have an outbreak of pinworms from stress and those types of worms don't usually cause an issue. But there is something else going on with those geckos. You can't deny that they are skinny and dull. Don't blame the lighting for your photos. I've never had one person tell me that my animals are so much duller than the photos I provided. This is not a lighting issue.

You know how important reputation is in the gecko community. You really can't come here and say that you're not going to reply. You should be doing everything you can to make this right.

Both of these girls are having multiple tests done. What happens when the results come back and they are bad? It's not like they've had them for so long in the wrong conditions (husbandry).

I would like to see you treat all your animals with wormer (not vitamins) and have some tests run before you sell anymore. That would be a good first step.

 

[Guy Castro]

I thought of a million ways to argue my point, to defend my business, to try and convince you people of jury and judge, but honestly at this point, it's rare that someone that has something good to say will actually come out and say it. (It's like good reviews and bad reviews) the good just never gets a chance to shine.

So, with that being said, I Chaz of Avangel Reptiles, will say what I have to say, and I will respond no more. I have been breeding and selling geckos for far longer than some of the people on here arguing and cursing my business and I. I have always been true to my customers, and treated them with the utmost respect. This is business and I would like to find the best way possible to right a wrong without both parties at a loss. Granted, unbeknownst to me, I did not intentionally send ill geckos. It has not, nor will it ever be what I stand for. There are some upset customers out there that feel cheated. I apologize you feel that way, but I have been fully responsive to any and all questions that they may have. I'm ashame it took you all 4 pages worth of comments before you decided to inform me of this thread, but now that is besides the point. For those of you out there that read this thread, knowing I gave honest and great customer service, and refuse to post your experience, it is for that reason why this should not be called a community any longer. I'm going to clear up a few things. I use a DSLR Camera on a white backdrop with natural light, light bulbs. I do not in anyway falsify a geckos appearance what so ever. Take a picture, with a white background and a carpet background with the same lighting and tell me you don't see a difference. Honestly, even though this has gotten way out of hand, you pet owners have taught me a lot. Just don't sale to inexperience people. I sold 100's of geckos, and now my first issue makes me the big bad enemy. Where is my validation in customer service? Also, I never told that girl I was a retired vet. It says I was in the military. There is a difference. Soldiers are contracted, and mine was a for a few years, and yes what I saw in my time in Iraq is (human) mass murders, destruction, and so much more. Us humans are so quick to kill and conquer based on jealousy and greed. So to say I sent reptiles intentionally with parasites is inhuman, the parasites the geckos had when shipped was a mere accident. There was no intentions about it. It's funny, the only time you all seem to band together, is when you are trying to take someone down, or the government is trying to take the reptile industry down. I'm tired of fighting for and against people on here. I came into this industry to make a difference, and the only difference I made, is nothing. Thank you for hearing me out.

That comfirms it for me. Avangel Reptiles is now Parasitic Reptiles !

 

[favrielle]

I thought of a million ways to argue my point, to defend my business, to try and convince you people of jury and judge, but honestly at this point, it's rare that someone that has something good to say will actually come out and say it. (It's like good reviews and bad reviews) the good just never gets a chance to shine.

So, with that being said, I Chaz of Avangel Reptiles, will say what I have to say, and I will respond no more. I have been breeding and selling geckos for far longer than some of the people on here arguing and cursing my business and I. I have always been true to my customers, and treated them with the utmost respect. This is business and I would like to find the best way possible to right a wrong without both parties at a loss. Granted, unbeknownst to me, I did not intentionally send ill geckos. It has not, nor will it ever be what I stand for. There are some upset customers out there that feel cheated. I apologize you feel that way, but I have been fully responsive to any and all questions that they may have. I'm ashame it took you all 4 pages worth of comments before you decided to inform me of this thread, but now that is besides the point. For those of you out there that read this thread, knowing I gave honest and great customer service, and refuse to post your experience, it is for that reason why this should not be called a community any longer. I'm going to clear up a few things. I use a DSLR Camera on a white backdrop with natural light, light bulbs. I do not in anyway falsify a geckos appearance what so ever. Take a picture, with a white background and a carpet background with the same lighting and tell me you don't see a difference. Honestly, even though this has gotten way out of hand, you pet owners have taught me a lot. Just don't sale to inexperience people. I sold 100's of geckos, and now my first issue makes me the big bad enemy. Where is my validation in customer service? Also, I never told that girl I was a retired vet. It says I was in the military. There is a difference. Soldiers are contracted, and mine was a for a few years, and yes what I saw in my time in Iraq is (human) mass murders, destruction, and so much more. Us humans are so quick to kill and conquer based on jealousy and greed. So to say I sent reptiles intentionally with parasites is inhuman, the parasites the geckos had when shipped was a mere accident. There was no intentions about it. It's funny, the only time you all seem to band together, is when you are trying to take someone down, or the government is trying to take the reptile industry down. I'm tired of fighting for and against people on here. I came into this industry to make a difference, and the only difference I made, is nothing. Thank you for hearing me out.

All debate and questions about whether you intentionally or unintentionally shipped sickly geckos aside, your response here is to:

1) point to your long experience breeding as proof of... well, something, I'm not sure what;

2) attempt to shame the customer who posted this;

3) attempt to shame your former customers for not stepping up to share their positive experiences in your defense;

4) attempt to shame this board/community

5) entirely sidestep the questions/complaints about your packaging of these geckos for shipping and the issue of feeding dead animals to your feeders; and

6) attempt to play word games with the whole "veteran"/military contractor issue.


Your long experience in breeding and selling geckos ultimately means nothing, except that as a long-standing breeder in this business, you should know by now that how you respond to a problem in a transaction is and *should be* weighed more heavily than how you respond when everything is peachy. The former is where people show their true colors.

Your attempt at shaming this customer, the community!, and your former customers (who, I'm guessing, may think twice about continuing to buy from you after being shamed/scolded!) is doing you no favors. If you have learned from this that you shouldn't sell to newbies and inexperienced breeders, who then is left but the very people you've just called out?

I'm certain I'm not the only one here who would like to see you step up and address the claims being made against you and to do so honestly and without finger-pointing and word games.

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

Okay I will answer every question everyone posted. I'll number them as I see them come up throughout this post.

Kayla received 2 geckos. Both were totally healthy from just looking at their bodies and coloration, I was not aware of the parasitic issue because I have not had one before.

1. Her refund was at 75% because if the gecko lived then she would still have a gecko and I would be able to retain some profit.

2. I told her not to tell anyone about the refund, because since she was doing the test, I could first figure out a solution and then know how to fix the other customers issue, without first asking for a refund.

3. Also I never not one time ran to other people running Kayla into the ground. I basically said that "people" are quick to state I sold them a gecko that is not doing good, but forgot to mention the gecko that is doing great.

4. As for her pictures. I will take a picture of a gecko with my DSLR camera, and with my Iphone and show you that the picture shown is really the same gecko. I have no clue what she is using to take pictures, but that was not how the gecko look when I sent it out. I swear I did not falsify the images of any reptile ever.

5. I will show proof that I was in the military since it does seem to matter to some people. Some people have friends and family that are in the military, but that does not make you well educated on what a military person is or endures. I'm not sitting around in my backyard shooting targets or animals, wishing I was in the military like some. I fought for my country, and did what I had to do, not many can say the same, so please don't speak on it.

6. When I told Kayla that my issue was not widespread, she was the first to come to me, and that is why the situation was so hard to accept in the beginning. I wanted her a happy customer, but I wanted to make sure she was not trying to just put blame on me. She asked for a refund because she said it was a month and the gecko was not eating. Not because it had parasites, and she wanted to use the refund to gecko a fecal test.

7. Okay, the inhuman comment. I am not saying I do cruel things, because that is furthest from the truth. I was just stating to that non-customer, for her to call me inhumane for sending parasitic geckos. I was claiming her comment made no sense because humans do far worse things, like mass murder and such. That does not mean, that I intentionally sent internally sick geckos.

8. Kristi as experienced as you are, faded coloration on a gecko can also happen if they are cold. Where I sent the geckos, the temperatures were pretty cool. It does not always mean they are unhealthy.

9.Nikki, you said none of your leos have worms, well according to a few other breeders, all leos have (pin)worms, but I am not trying to place blame elsewhere. I am just stating what others have also said because feeders naturally have parasites in them.

Mikew1234
10. The only thing I take fault on is that I unintentionally sent geckos with an abundance of parasites in them.

11. You say your animals live better than you, well I am with you on that because I moved myself out of my current room and into the living room so my reptiles can have a reptile room. My refrigerator is empty but the reptiles always eat. If they aren't eating, I work on getting them back up to health, not sale them.

12. Pasodama - you said I have not stated how I would make things right as far as the geckos with parasites are concerned that I shipped to the customers with complaints. Well I asked them, what would they prefer. Kayla got a 75% refund and a gecko as she claims is now eating, and Nikki, said she will keep me posted. Nikki, isn't afraid to speak her mind what so ever, and I can only do as much as what would make the customer happy, but I wont give a full discount for a gecko that is still alive.

13. Julia - Here is your answer on one of your questions. The ingredient Diatomaceous Earth - To insects DE is a lethal dust with microscopic razor sharp edges. These sharp edges cut through the insect's protective covering drying it out and killing them when they are either dusted with DE or if it applied as a wettable powder spray. If they ingest the DE it will shred their insides. Comes with complete instructions for use on insects, flea and lice control, bed bugs, grain storage, parasite control in animals (use in feed) and fly control. (ARMION was "made" for a bunch of different reasons.)

14. I do not feed sick geckos to roaches. I do not know if that is enough for you but there it is. I do not do that.

15. Kristi - you claim I should do everything to make this right. This isn't my first discussion to this level with people. I have learned, people are going to believe what they believe, no matter what I say or do not say. Kayla has pictures of a gecko from a month after I shipped them to her, and she uses a lower quality camera then my own. So it seems like I send some off the wall gecko that looks nothing like what I shipped. So as far as arguing my defense, doesn't make a difference. I personally hate the BOI, because its a way for people to quickly run a make a topic about someone. I never read the BOI's I base who I buy from, based on how they treat me and the quality of their reptiles. I bought reptiles from a guy that had popped up as a bad seller and he has always done great business with me when I purchased snakes from him. So its a headache arguing with the same people every time. I have seen Kristi on just about every post since I have been breeding and selling reptiles. So sometimes these arguments don't exactly come to a mutual understanding, sometimes most of the co-signers are the same exact people.

16.Favirelle - I hope that answered everything you asked for.

 

[KFoxysGeckos]

Excuse me, i have pictured of a gecko as it was recieved. There was no difference other than a month later when i finally gave up on waiting for her to eat and started giving her reptiboost, her colors brightened some. I did not post "month later" pictures, in fact i have unboxing day photos of them still in their cups. And just because she ate a few dubia this morning, i dont chalk that up to "shes eating now".. i call this great she ate... lets see if its a recurring thing.
As far as my camera goes, its not like im using a point and click disposable.... yes im using my phone camera, but the galaxy note 4 has a very decent camera on it and i take numerous pictures to make sure the camera acurately represents what i see with my eyes. Theres nothing falsified there.
Regardless if you knew about the parasites or not, i dont see how you didnt notice that "oh they look much skinnier than the pictures, let me make sure they are ok before i ship them".
As far as the weather here, they did have a heat pack, and I live in texas... its not that cold here, and the colors didnt start to brighten until after multiple doses of wormer and reptiboost vitamins.

On the topic of feeders, crickets do not ever enter my house. I feed mealworms from rainbow mealworms, supers on occasion, and home bred dubia, so i consider my risk of parasite infestation extremely low, and with 7 other fat healthy geckos, i call that confirmed.

 

[Lucille]

Both were totally healthy from just looking at their bodies and coloration, I was not aware of the parasitic issue because I have not had one before.

If you do not do regular testing how would you know whether you have had parasites in your collection before?

9.Nikki, you said none of your leos have worms, well according to a few other breeders, all leos have (pin)worms, but I am not trying to place blame elsewhere. I am just stating what others have also said because feeders naturally have parasites in them.

Name the other breeders or you are just making this up. And make up your mind, you just tried to get us to believe that your critters never had parasites, now you are trying to float that all of these critters have parasites.

I personally hate the BOI

I can see why you would. You are trying to blow smoke up, and the experiences keepers and onlookers are calling you out on it.

 

[KFoxysGeckos]

Unboxing photos.

 

[KFoxysGeckos]

Also i asked for a refund because i recieved a sick gecko, not because it wasnt eating. But thats all in the screengrabs provided.

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

There is my DD-214, and its pretty obvious why certain things are covered up.

 

[Avangel Reptiles]

Here is a coouple geckos with the same lighting, just Iphone 5s and DSLR Camera and different backgrounds.