Bad Guy Jim Flaherty of the Chameleon Company

[Lucille]

1 The vast majority of people come to the BOI to research buying/ selling activities.
2 Accidental or even intentional "seeding" seems to me to have almost no relevance to buying/ selling activities.
3 When the uproar is not currently supported by any actual evidence the "seeding" is harmful, then there is even less relevance.
4 When you take a run at a guy with a good rep as far as buying/ selling activities goes you should have more than irrelevant PETA type posturing.

But I think there is more to it than posturing. Let's examine Micah's few posts: he first makes vague references to some possible future misbehavior. That is ridiculous, anyone could be smeared with vague future possibilities. Then he makes an assertion against Jim, but cannot back up the charges he made here. What he has said is no more damning or believable than some kid casting aspersions by writing something negative on a bathroom wall, then fleeing.
I have no horse in this race, but the vague, fact-deprived railroading by several here in my opinion reflects poorly on those doing it. I would not do business with them.

 

[sschind]

I'm not going to chime in on the specific issue at hand but I just wanted to comment on something Dennis brought up. Raising non native species in outdoor enclosures means extra care has to be taken to prevent escapes even if you don't think they can survive. Raising Chameleons outdoors in large screen enclosures in Florida calls for a bit more diligence than raising ball pythons in a rack in your snake room in your basement in Duluth Minnesota.

 

[LauraB]

1 The vast majority of people come to the BOI to research buying/ selling activities.
2 Accidental or even intentional "seeding" seems to me to have almost no relevance to buying/ selling activities.
3 When the uproar is not currently supported by any actual evidence the "seeding" is harmful, then there is even less relevance.
4 When you take a run at a guy with a good rep as far as buying/ selling activities goes you should have more than irrelevant PETA type posturing.

Seeding is purposeful/willful. I am not seeing that from what has been provided, but that is the direction some seem to want to push this.

... I think there is more to it than posturing. Let's examine Micah's few posts: he first makes vague references to some possible future misbehavior. That is ridiculous, anyone could be smeared with vague future possibilities. Then he makes an assertion against Jim, but cannot back up the charges he made here. What he has said is no more damning or believable than some kid casting aspersions by writing something negative on a bathroom wall, then fleeing.
I have no horse in this race, but the vague, fact-deprived railroading by several here in my opinion reflects poorly on those doing it. I would not do business with them.

These three individuals have summed up my opinions very nicely. The only thing I might add is, since the Chammandos seem to be itching for an ecological enemy to defeat, perhaps they should take up the Manatee's current plight and struggle for survival. Oh, and yes ... contacting the Authoritah is no less responsible for future restriction and future bans than the person you want to condemn for inadvertent escape and unexpected survival that was unwisely shared to social media. Go Chammandos.

When will people learn?

 

[Guy Castro]

These three individuals have summed up my opinions very nicely. The only thing I might add is, since the Chammandos seem to be itching for an ecological enemy to defeat, perhaps they should take up the Manatee's current plight and struggle for survival. Oh, and yes ... contacting the Authoritah is no less responsible for future restriction and future bans than the person you want to condemn for inadvertent escape and unexpected survival that was unwisely shared to social media. Go Chammandos.

When will people learn?

this^^^^^^

 

[gophersnake13]

Y'll are ridiculous that dude just posted walls of information about how big of an issue this is and it seems like you didn't even bother to read it.

I won't buy from the guy because of this story.

 

[Chameleon Company]

I want to Thank .....

In no particular order: Lloyd, Dennis, Laura, Lucille, and any others who spoke with common sense here. If I missed anyone, I am still most thankful for the time that you took to make sense, as opposed to the OP and others.

As to all the nonsense alleged by the flash-mob of miscreants from Chameleons Gone Wild, who made all sorts of allegations that we had done wrong here, would be fined, etc, etc., the character and motives of those folks can start to be understood here: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533253

FWC, The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission did come out and inspect last week. They normally come every 3-4 years. They had the complaints of the CGW folks such as Joshua Illencik and James Raymond. I then treated them to the audio that I had of Robert Nichols, and screenshots of posts by the others, so that the Officers could have the full context of things. We passed spectacularly, as we always do. Sorry miscreants, but no infractions. The Officers could see that all was under control, that things were not as alleged, and that there was no herd of loose invasive species running around the property. My license is renewed through 2017 as well.

 

[jishillencik]

Lol miscreant

 

[Chameleon Company]

I can't speak for FWC, but would suggest that there is a difference between "release" and "escape". Regardless, they came. They saw. They read all the nonsense from Chameleons Gone Wild. Some written by you !! I got an all OK. I did not want to post here until they had their opportunity. Thought it best to let you folks have your fun with each other. And OBTW, these FWC folks are quite professional. All properly licensed Florida folks have dealt with them. A bit different from your friends at CGW. Of whom the comments made to me by CGW were most unflattering.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Lol miscreant

Joshua. You may want to seek a clarification as well. The FWC website goes into detail about explaining what "Conditional" and "Prohibited Non-Native Species" are. That is the heading of that portion of the statutes that you quoted. Regardless, FWC understood all, and knows their business. Unlike CGW experts, who claimed a few dozen times in multiple threads how I was going to be fined, etc. Heck, you even posted links to call the local news Joshua ! How'd that work out for you !!! .....

We run a great operation here. We sell more chameleons than anyone, and it is not close. We have the best prices in the business. 10,000 chameleons sold in the last decade. We do a very good job. That just infuriates some folks.

 

[Guy Castro]

Lol miscreant

Instead of adamantly believing what some have posted, go down there and see for yourself firsthand, if you are truly concerned. Don't become a "he said she said" sheeple.

 

[jishillencik]

Joshua. You may want to seek a clarification as well. The FWC website goes into detail about explaining what "Conditional" and "Prohibited Non-Native Species" are. That is the heading of that portion of the statutes that you quoted. Regardless, FWC understood all, and knows their business. Unlike CGW experts, who claimed a few dozen times in multiple threads how I was going to be fined, etc. Heck, you even posted links to call the local news Joshua ! How'd that work out for you !!! .....

We run a great operation here. We sell more chameleons than anyone, and it is not close. We have the best prices in the business. 10,000 chameleons sold in the last decade. We do a very good job. That just infuriates some folks.

Actually the site says ANY non native species so I guess the question is, do you have a permit or did FWC look the other way??

And I'm sorry what did I post?? Somebody posted a link to a local news station but it was not me.

In the meantime I'll add miscreant and sheeple to my resume.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Instead of adamantly believing what some have posted, go down there and see for yourself firsthand, if you are truly concerned. Don't become a "he said she said" sheeple.

Joshua knows Robert Nichols very well, They are buddies. Joshua likes Robert. "Birds of a feather", and "the company that you keep" would be most appropriate here.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Actually the site says ANY non native species so I guess the question is, do you have a permit or did FWC look the other way??

And I'm sorry what did I post?? Somebody posted a link to a local news station but it was not me.

In the meantime I'll add miscreant and sheeple to my resume.

So now you are accusing FWC of malfeasance ? That you know the Law better than they ? I guess being a member of Chameleons Gone Wild makes you an expert ? At what, if I might ask ? Do you do anything besides trash folks ? Have you ever posted, like others have at CGW, that Rob is "out-of-line" ? The answer is "No". As is already in evidence, you cheer him on.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Heck, you even posted links to call the local news Joshua !

That couldn't be true. After-all, the concern here was

Irresponsible pet owners, breeders, and importers are the reason for the restrictions the reptile industry has placed upon them today. Jim's negligence shows a direct link between non native species in Florida and the pet trade. You may not think it is a big deal, but that won't stop legislators and groups like PETA from using this as ammunition to place more restrictions on the industry.

This is the exact reason for posting this BOI. I do not want a ban on keeping reptiles. We should set standards for ourselves to uphold because if we don't, the government will for us.

There's noway he would suggest calling the media and giving that ammunition to Peta. What say you, Joshua?

 

[sapphira80]

If one had been involved in the original facebook post, it would have been seen that Jim was almost bragging about having a "Florida Locale".

I read Jim's FB posts and it did not seem to me like he was bragging about a locale. If I recall, he said he wouldn't be surprised if all the escapees of different locale heritage eventually blended into one homogenous group because they didn't seem to care about mating with a partner of their own locale. That sends to be a simple observation, not boasting.

Also, it's not fair to accuse someone of a transgression (selling mixed locales as pure bred locales) that never happened.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Dennis. Thanks. It was comical. I do not have screen shots of everything, but there will be others posting who can attest to such. As Josh and his few buddies trashed the original FB threads, they had to be deleted due to obscenities, etc.

Meanwhile, Joshua will not speak ill of his friend Robert Nichols. That speaks droves.

Thanks.

 

[robmd1]

I read Jim's FB posts and it did not seem to me like he was bragging about a locale. If I recall, he said he wouldn't be surprised if all the escapees of different locale heritage eventually blended into one homogenous group because they didn't seem to care about mating with a partner of their own locale. That sends to be a simple observation, not boasting.

Also, it's not fair to accuse someone of a transgression (selling mixed locales as pure bred locales) that never happened.

Don't go saying jim doesn't sell crosses.. because he sells ALOT of crosses hes sold me a cross years ago then when I called him on it he told me I should breed it as a faly? that's when any respect I had for jim went out the window.. I haven't posted here about this prob jim has now because he would make it all about me .. and looking at this other boi thread about me being a moderator of a facebook group? how the heck does that HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH FAUNA BOI? oh that's right jim needs to deflect heat off him an him knowingly letting non native species go free in florida all cause people arnt buying his crosses?

 

[robmd1]

From: The Chameleon Company <[email protected]>
To: "robmd1 @ Chameleon Forums" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, August 13, 2011 6:36:33 PM
Subject: Re: hannibal male

Rob,
Well, he looks fantastic ! He also looks like one of the Faly variations. He could be 100% Faly. Faly-banjas look more Ambanja than does he. Whether we mislabeled a cage, or pulled him from a different cage by mistake, I can't possibly know. We had a couple of mis-labeled clutches last year, but if my memory serves me correctly, they were animals that were supposed to be Nosy Be, but were Ambanja. I have none of his sibling brothers here, whatever the clutch, but wish that I did. Or all of his sisters to use as breeders. I would consider him a Faly, and breed him as such, and sell his offspring as such. That is the color-group he demonstrates.

Jim

On 8/13/2011 8:50 PM, robmd1 @ Chameleon Forums wrote:
> This is a message from robmd1 at Chameleon Forums ( http://www.chameleonforums.com/forum.php ). The Chameleon Forums owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.
>
> To email robmd1, you can use this online form:
> http://www.chameleonforums.com/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=7272
>
> OR, by email:
> mailto:[email protected]
>
> This is the message:
>
> hiya jim
> my name is rob and i bought hanibal male 907-3, doh 6-16-2010 an i been watchin how hes turnin out compared to someone else that has a hannibal male from supposedly same clutch an i think theres a mix up somewhere cause my male looks nothing like hannibal but looks more faly then most falys forsale rite now. id like to get this figured out as i wanted a hannibal male not a faly banja here is the thread of what he looks like, can you tell me what you think?
> http://www.chameleonforums.com/what-kinda-panther-am-i-62040/
> maybe a falybanja got loose an put in the hannibal cage?
>

 

[Chameleon Company]

I read Jim's FB posts and it did not seem to me like he was bragging about a locale. If I recall, he said he wouldn't be surprised if all the escapees of different locale heritage eventually blended into one homogenous group because they didn't seem to care about mating with a partner of their own locale. That sends to be a simple observation, not boasting.

Also, it's not fair to accuse someone of a transgression (selling mixed locales as pure bred locales) that never happened.

Erin, as noted, there are three species of chameleons established in South Florida (I am Central Florida, big difference). The discussion was about what we have learned from this. It is a simple logical conclusion that the wild panther chameleons will eventually homogenize into a morph. In my part of Florida, they cannot survive long term. A few mild winters, apparently so. But only one has been found in 9 months now, after one cold night this winter, of 28-39 F. Whether our efforts to not lose inventory, or the weather, or other factors, we do not know. But our record low is 16 F. And sub 25 F happens about every 4-5 years. South Florida is different though. That is part of what the discussion was about. Unfortunately, it was hijacked and perverted by a handful of folks. See the Robert Nichols thread to get a better idea of who they are.

 

[jishillencik]

Dennis. Thanks. It was comical. I do not have screen shots of everything, but there will be others posting who can attest to such. As Josh and his few buddies trashed the original FB threads, they had to be deleted due to obscenities, etc.

Meanwhile, Joshua will not speak ill of his friend Robert Nichols. That speaks droves.

Thanks.

proof....you have provided zero