Bad Guy Jim Flaherty of the Chameleon Company

[LauraB]

In all seriousness, readers ask yourselves- If this is how he speaks to potential customers/people he doesn't know..Why in the world would you give him money?
This thread has nothing to do with someone who shares the same name as me.
This thread is about Chameleon Company and how shady the owner is.

Lindsey, have you done business with Jim? Do you have an unsatisfactory history with him? How do you know he is "shady"?

If you've had an unsatisfactory transaction with Jim, then please share.

Your being a new member, with what 7 posts, and suddenly finding an interest in this particular thread does raise questions as to your motives. Jim has NO "Bad Guy" threads here, in all the years he's done business, regardless of his often gruff, stubborn and yes, obstinate personality. I would happily recommend Jim to a potential customer.

And no, I am not assuming anything, implying anything or judging ... simply inquiring.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Lindsey, have you done business with Jim? Do you have an unsatisfactory history with him? How do you know he is "shady"?

If you've had an unsatisfactory transaction with Jim, then please share.

Your being a new member, with what 7 posts, and suddenly finding an interest in this particular thread does raise questions as to your motives. Jim has NO "Bad Guy" threads here, in all the years he's done business, regardless of his often gruff, stubborn and yes, obstinate personality. I would happily recommend Jim to a potential customer.

And no, I am not assuming anything, implying anything or judging ... simply inquiring.

This is like the 5th sock puppet sent out by Chameleons Gone Wild. The other 4 or so are banned already.

We are going to assemble a list of the miscreants there. Admin, and about a half dozen others. We will post it here, but also give it a special page in my website, that gets 2000 hits a week. Chameleon people from all over the world. We will link these threads for folks to refer to if in doubt. We will create permanent records of these character-deficient miscreants, for all to evaluate.

If anything, it was most convenient for the low-lifes of this hobby to all assemble in one place. Thanks folks.

 

[LinP]

Lindsey, have you done business with Jim? Do you have an unsatisfactory history with him? How do you know he is "shady"?

If you've had an unsatisfactory transaction with Jim, then please share.

Your being a new member, with what 7 posts, and suddenly finding an interest in this particular thread does raise questions as to your motives. Jim has NO "Bad Guy" threads here, in all the years he's done business, regardless of his often gruff, stubborn and yes, obstinate personality. I would happily recommend Jim to a potential customer.

And no, I am not assuming anything, implying anything or judging ... simply inquiring.

Laura, I have read almost everything this man has wrote on other sites and then I come to this one and see this nonsense.
I though the chams were beautiful and I wanted to purchase a few.After doing my research (thank the lord I did)..
He had allowed these animals to "escape", celebrated this "achievement" on other sites..
Then comes here and claims it was an "accident".
Him refusing to take ownership of how he publicly Prided himself & refusing show the "supposed" permit, shows a lot about how honest he is.
I do not need to do business with him Laura, I am very thankful I did this reading and did not have to learn the hard way.

 

[jishillencik]

Perhaps there is an error in the way I'm interpreting your statements.

Here is what you said:

This goes exactly to my point. You were never about the truth here. Just a hit-job. Now it has all turned back on you. You have been less than honest from the beginning.

And here is what I read:

I'm going to ignore all of your questions and instead post audio files of Rob Nichols voice because I think it is sexy and want to share it with the world. Besides, anyone that disagrees with me is a misinformed miscreant without the chutzpah to call me out....PEDIGREE!!!!

 

[LinP]

No apology there ! This is like the 5th one so far ? Maybe you can ask "her" out for a date !

The 5th what? What exactly are you rambling about? Hope you are not changing the subject agin.
Show the permit Jim.
If you show a permit I May consider purchasing one day when I get over your insults.
If you can man up and provide the proof, which I highly doubt this far into the thread.

 

[Billybobob]

LinP the permit jishillencik was referring to in that screenshot from the fwc is a permit for releasing game animals like ducks geese pheasant and stocking ponds with non native fish. FWC will not give out a permit for releasing chameleons. The fact that jishillencik is trying to use this as a lynch pin for his argument just shows how ignorant he is.

Do you or jishillencik think that all the people who had animals escape during any of the hurricanes should have applied for permits before the hurricanes hit? If so, do you know how stupid that is?

The Chameleon Company had some animals escape he did not deliberately release anything. Yes he could have been fined by the FCW but normally for this kind of thing they just try to get the person to correct the mistake that led to the escapes. According to everything posted this happened over 2 years ago so they defiantly would not fine him for that since the problem was most likely fixed back then. Now if he was still haveing escapes every year he would get fined and/or have his current permits suspended(it would most likely be a temporary suspension until he corrected the problem). But as stated earlier he already corrected the problem. I bet they did not like getting called out on a 2 year old problem either.

jishillencik, robmd1 and all the other people coming here from cgw have been asked multiple times to provide proof that he released them deliberately, and they have not produced one peace of evidence that the chameleon company deliberately released anything. Why not send some scrutiny their way for lack of proof? Oh, that's right you are not here looking up the chameleon company you're just another person from cgw trying to cause drama.

And I still can't believe that these guys are actually arguing that the species that they work with should be considered invasive. Do you guys even know whats going on with the lacey act. Or are you all secretly working for peta. It's like you are trying to kill the hobby you claim to love.

 

[jishillencik]

LinP the permit jishillencik was referring to in that screenshot from the fwc is a permit for releasing game animals like ducks geese pheasant and stocking ponds with non native fish. FWC will not give out a permit for releasing chameleons. The fact that jishillencik is trying to use this as a lynch pin for his argument just shows how ignorant he is.

Apparently you do not know the meaning of the word "any". Sorry if that makes me sound like Jim, but come on, seriously???

 

[LinP]

The site won't allow me to post images right now, it boots me off if I try. Hopefully tomorrow it will allow me to share the lovey posts I have read by this character.

Billyboobob, Jim has claimed many times on this thread that he "has the permit".. So you yourself are claiming the permit which he speaks of, does not exist?

 

[robmd1]

LinP the permit jishillencik was referring to in that screenshot from the fwc is a permit for releasing game animals like ducks geese pheasant and stocking ponds with non native fish. FWC will not give out a permit for releasing chameleons. The fact that jishillencik is trying to use this as a lynch pin for his argument just shows how ignorant he is.

Do you or jishillencik think that all the people who had animals escape during any of the hurricanes should have applied for permits before the hurricanes hit? If so, do you know how stupid that is?

The Chameleon Company had some animals escape he did not deliberately release anything. Yes he could have been fined by the FCW but normally for this kind of thing they just try to get the person to correct the mistake that led to the escapes. According to everything posted this happened over 2 years ago so they defiantly would not fine him for that since the problem was most likely fixed back then. Now if he was still haveing escapes every year he would get fined and/or have his current permits suspended(it would most likely be a temporary suspension until he corrected the problem). But as stated earlier he already corrected the problem. I bet they did not like getting called out on a 2 year old problem either.

jishillencik, robmd1 and all the other people coming here from cgw have been asked multiple times to provide proof that he released them deliberately, and they have not produced one peace of evidence that the chameleon company deliberately released anything. Why not send some scrutiny their way for lack of proof? Oh, that's right you are not here looking up the chameleon company you're just another person from cgw trying to cause drama.

And I still can't believe that these guys are actually arguing that the species that they work with should be considered invasive. Do you guys even know whats going on with the lacey act. Or are you all secretly working for peta. It's like you are trying to kill the hobby you claim to love.

Sounds to me like a sock puppet . but this one is one of jims babbling

 

[jishillencik]

Do you or jishillencik think that all the people who had animals escape during any of the hurricanes should have applied for permits before the hurricanes hit? If so, do you know how stupid that is?

So you're comparing nature (not controllable) to an oversight in cage design (controllable)???

 

[LinP]

Jim it seems what you're seeing in other people, is a true reflection of yourself. I see you are actually the one with sock puppets.
You have no control over me Jim. I'm not one of your puppets sorry

 

[EdwardK]

Well those are only "not harmful" because they prey on other nonnatives, like ants and termites.

Any nonnative consuming resources meant for natives is wholly harmful, even if it isn't causing extinctions.

Actually this isn't true. Your making an assumption that all possible niches have to be filled and therefore any non-native is displacing a native species. This is a common misconception and is readily made because of how many introduced species are covered in the news.

A further issue with your definition is that natural range increases would have to be viewed as automatically being a negative. An example of this would be the expansion of cattle egrets into the United States. This occurred without any human assistance and to the best data do not displace or compete with native herons or egrets for food (see Burger, J. (1978). Competition between Cattle Egrets and native North American herons, egrets, and ibises. Condor, 15-23.).

As an example, habitat around human habitations tends to be highly disrupted and not-conducive for natives that have not evolved to coexist in that level of disturbance. For example, the small cabbage butterfly (Pieris rapae) is introduced to North America and doesn't displace any native species as it feeds on plants in the mustard family and is a pest in home gardens.
Or you can consider the impact of dandelions in lawns... they are again adapted to live in a disturbed habitat a niche that other plants don't exploit as readily.
Another example is Cornu aspersum (well outside of California). Here in New Jersey it is rarely encountered and persists at a very low density without displacing native species.

So as can be readily demonstrated through the literature, not all introduced species are automatically harmful to native species whether introduced by people or natural range expansions.

So maybe that back and forth can now be ended.

Ed

 

[LauraB]

Laura, I have read almost everything this man has wrote on other sites and then I come to this one and see this nonsense.
I though the chams were beautiful and I wanted to purchase a few.After doing my research (thank the lord I did)..
He had allowed these animals to "escape", celebrated this "achievement" on other sites..
Then comes here and claims it was an "accident".
Him refusing to take ownership of how he publicly Prided himself & refusing show the "supposed" permit, shows a lot about how honest he is.
I do not need to do business with him Laura, I am very thankful I did this reading and did not have to learn the hard way.

All you know is what you have read on a bunch of FarceBook "sheeple" cham pages. It's obvious you have NOT been seriously researching chams if your only source is FarceBook and a bunch of school-kid drama.

Sorry, but if you want to know FACTS about keeping, raising and proper husbandry of chams, and who to buy from, FarceBook and it's high school drama is not your friend. The very fact that this all this immature crap was brought here to Fauna, a respected, credible and highly informative site (and normally lacking in the juvenile histrionics displayed now) from FarceBook should be a freakin' clue.

Good luck with that.

 

[Billybobob]

Billyboobob, Jim has claimed many times on this thread that he "has the permit".. So you yourself are claiming the permit which he speaks of, does not exist?

I am fairly sure he is talking about a permit for operating his reptile bisness not a permit for releasing non native animals. And if he did not have a permit for his business the FWC would have shut him down.

And, no I do not know the guy who runs the chameleon company. I just can't understand why you guys are trying to label the species that you work with as invasive. You know all the political drama going on with pythons, anacondas, and boas, is directly related to Florida putting them on the invasive species list right? If Chameleons are put on that list how long do you think it will be before they are added to the lacey acts banned species?

 

[robmd1]

All you know is what you have read on a bunch of FarceBook "sheeple" cham pages. It's obvious you have NOT been seriously researching chams if your only source is FarceBook and a bunch of school-kid drama.

Sorry, but if you want to know FACTS about keeping, raising and proper husbandry of chams, and who to buy from, FarceBook and it's high school drama is not your friend. The very fact that this all this immature crap was brought here to Fauna, a respected, credible and highly informative site (and normally lacking in the juvenile histrionics displayed now) from FarceBook should be a freakin' clue.

Good luck with that.

just because you may not like the info doesn't mean it isn't all true

 

[EdwardK]

So you're comparing nature (not controllable) to an oversight in cage design (controllable)???

I've read through this thread a couple of times and I'm not a chameleon person and I've never done any sort of transaction with any of the players here...

I might consider buying into the issue if there was proof that this was not a one off issue. Do you have proof that the chameleon clutches were allowed to escape over the course of several years or is that all conjecture?

There have been claims that the chameleons were deliberately allowed to escape as a source of potential animals to sell. I have yet to see that information proven. I've seen a lot of conjecture and accusations but no proof.

As I commented earlier, I have to admit, that I don't have a favorable opinion of any of the continual players in this and the other related thread. There is a lot of taunting and accusations back and forth between some of the players in this thread including the thread's namesake and I'm pretty confident that if I ever decide to get into panther chameleons I know a group of people I'm likely to avoid for information and sales.


If seeing Jim's permit is such a bother for anyone in this or any another thread, file a FOIA request with Florida wildlife. There isn't any reason anyone who really wants to see can't get a copy of it. Those who want to see it would have the answer and it takes all of the accusation and taunting out of the picture.

Ed

 

[Billy1138]

Sorry, but if you want to know FACTS about keeping, raising and proper husbandry of chams, and who to buy from, FarceBook and it's high school drama is not your friend. The very fact that this all this immature crap was brought here to Fauna, a respected, credible and highly informative site (and normally lacking in the juvenile histrionics displayed now) ....

So well put! MY thoughts exactly. Last time I heard this kind of banter was when I supervised 7th grade recess. Jim and Rob, are either of you able to communicate a point in a civil manner at all? Or must you attack anyone who disagrees or questions you?

I guess I'll just stick with geckos

 

[LauraB]

just because you may not like the info doesn't mean it isn't all true

I don't do FarceBook ... for the very reason that anyone can be anything. Just too many self-proclaimed "experts" on everything, too much stupid drama and posts can be deleted. I could not care less about what appears to me to be just another social popularity contest, chest-pumping and way too much self-absorption. Same with Twitter and all those other "look at me" outlets.

If I want to learn; if I want facts; I will go elsewhere, where the knowledge is credible and proven.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And just to add to what EdwardK originally posted, re: dandelions. You all DO know that dandelions were NOT originally native to North America, right? Yeah, they are considered pesky weeds now, but I actually like their pretty yellow flowers and they are good, natural feeders for some reptiles (only if not exposed to insecticides, animal waste, etc). Exactly what native North American plants have been wiped out due to dandelions in what, maybe 400 years?

 

[Herpguy11]

Actually this isn't true. Your making an assumption that all possible niches have to be filled and therefore any non-native is displacing a native species. This is a common misconception and is readily made because of how many introduced species are covered in the news.

A further issue with your definition is that natural range increases would have to be viewed as automatically being a negative. An example of this would be the expansion of cattle egrets into the United States. This occurred without any human assistance and to the best data do not displace or compete with native herons or egrets for food (see Burger, J. (1978). Competition between Cattle Egrets and native North American herons, egrets, and ibises. Condor, 15-23.).

As an example, habitat around human habitations tends to be highly disrupted and not-conducive for natives that have not evolved to coexist in that level of disturbance. For example, the small cabbage butterfly (Pieris rapae) is introduced to North America and doesn't displace any native species as it feeds on plants in the mustard family and is a pest in home gardens.
Or you can consider the impact of dandelions in lawns... they are again adapted to live in a disturbed habitat a niche that other plants don't exploit as readily.
Another example is Cornu aspersum (well outside of California). Here in New Jersey it is rarely encountered and persists at a very low density without displacing native species.

So as can be readily demonstrated through the literature, not all introduced species are automatically harmful to native species whether introduced by people or natural range expansions.

So maybe that back and forth can now be ended.

Ed

We are talking about an animal from a completely different continent here.

Of course whenever a blanket statement is said there can always be a way around it if you want to ignore the main point. A textbook can say that all Coleoptera have chewing mouthparts, but in reality it is not true. Is it true in virtually all cases? Yes. That is the point here.

If you truly think panther chameleons being in the wild of Florida is not bad, I give you the same challenge I said to Jim a few pages back. Go to your local ecology conference and tell them this tale of chameleons escaping into the wild and obviously surviving for multiple years. Heck, call your local Professor of Ecology. Then, post their response. I work with people that fit this description, and I guarantee you that you would bet you could see steam coming out of their ears if they saw something like this.

 

[LinP]

All you know is what you have read on a bunch of FarceBook "sheeple" cham pages. It's obvious you have NOT been seriously researching chams if your only source is FarceBook and a bunch of school-kid drama.

Sorry, but if you want to know FACTS about keeping, raising and proper husbandry of chams, and who to buy from, FarceBook and it's high school drama is not your friend. The very fact that this all this immature crap was brought here to Fauna, a respected, credible and highly informative site (and normally lacking in the juvenile histrionics displayed now) from FarceBook should be a freakin' clue.

Good luck with that.

Firstly, What is "faRcebook"? Is that supposed to be a "cute" catchphrase?

Don't know if you're aware but Chameleon Company is also on chameleonfurms
You may not be familiar with it, it's kind of like fauna.. A lil more modern, it's actually Not on FACEbook.

It seems you are bashing any members that have FACEbook accounts..? So you are trying to say we are not welcome here?

You know that does include "puppet master Jim" right?

(I think your member numbers will drop by At least 50% considering FACEbook is the Only reason This Thread is Here & the only reason people know This site exits anymore.)

Anyways, I'm not the one on trial here, I didn't release any animals.

*Also, I for one am Not saying they're "invasive" I'm saying he broke the law regardless. And he hoped the animals would freeze to death..Because That's real humane.