Bad Guy FloridaHerps - I should have listened to all the bad reviews.

[Ephemeroptera]

Yea man, it's a shame that your spider had to meet an untimely end because of, in my opinion, a bad decision on the shippers part. I don't sell or ship much, I'm just a hobbiest in this industry, but I'm always afraid to ship when temps are too high or low in any area. I feel that's a poor business decision on their part, and they should have disregarded their TOS in this instance and helped you out. Instead, they drove a lot of future business away be acting completely unprofessional in their responses and manner of handling the situtation.

I for one, will avoid them in any future purchases I decide to make.

I trusted them to make the right call and they certainly did not do that. FloridaHerps is all about the money. The owner bragged about all the animals they import and how they sell many of them to dealers all over the country. And, he does not at all believe me concerning the e-mails. I will be pulling IP addresses to show him they came from his business. This was his response to the e-mails:

"As far as what you claim to be email from someone here. You were only emailing with 1 person here. Kristen. She is a 44 year grandmother that is a Cert. Vet. Asst. and a Cert. Lab. Tech. You really expect me to believe she wrote vulgar emails to you? Never going to happen. "

Either the owner is lying through his teeth or has no idea what is happening with his company.

 

[Ephemeroptera]

Agreed.

------------------

David, the representative attempted to lay blame at your feet for ordering during hot weather, but the company elected to ship the spider (on a date you do not seem to have specifically selected) during a time that defied its own terms for the animals (reptiles) it does set minimum and maximum temperatures for shipment coverage. That would seem, between it being above the temperature apex for coverage for animals they do guarantee and it being an animal they consider to be so sensitive that it is not even offered a guarantee due to their perception of its sensitivity, that they knowingly selected a date -in their own thought process- that would have a higher than average or more probable chance of failure (death).

When things are borderline, I try to take some extra care in packaging. When environmental parameters exceed my own sense of risk tolerance, like Kristi and many other sellers, I suspend the shipment until such time that things become acceptable for the safety of the animal during transit as I see them.

If we consider the terms, I do not see much to be done here other than taking your business elsewhere in the future and sharing this negative experience. However, the falsification of your communication in writing by the company has potential professional (reputation-based) repercussions and seems libelous to me (I am no attorney), so I would strongly urge you to talk to someone in the legal field for advice on how to address that. Especially if your employer offers any sort of legal assistance.

I agree, there is really nothing that can be done to recover any of the money. I am WAY past that. I told the owner I only want one thing from him, and that is to take responsibility for the e-mails that came from his business. Here was his reply:

"As far as what you claim to be email from someone here. You were only emailing with 1 person here. Kristen. She is a 44 year grandmother that is a Cert. Vet. Asst. and a Cert. Lab. Tech. You really expect me to believe she wrote vulgar emails to you? Never going to happen."

He is either lying through his teeth or has no idea what is happening with his company. Same BS with PayPal. They made several statements that were completely and totally false. They told PayPal they offered to take the spider back from me but I refused (never happened) and they also told PayPal that I told them I had buried it. I still have it sitting here on my desk. Never even left the house. The legal thing is something I am considering. More research is needed, but it is an open option in my mind.

 

[Black Adder]

Just a quick note from my prior experience with Paypal is no matter what they first decide, is that when/if it ever came to them actually paying out to you it will not happen.
They do not cover live animals period.
I had one doa milksnake about 2 years ago, Paypal initially agreed to refund but said I had to send item back.
When I then told them it was a dead snake they immediately did a 180 and stated there was NO coverage on live animals.
Have heard of a few other similar instances unless anybody knows anything different.

 

[bcr229]

Just a quick note from my prior experience with Paypal is no matter what they first decide, is that when/if it ever came to them actually paying out to you it will not happen.
They do not cover live animals period.
I had one doa milksnake about 2 years ago, Paypal initially agreed to refund but said I had to send item back.
When I then told them it was a dead snake they immediately did a 180 and stated there was NO coverage on live animals.
Have heard of a few other similar instances unless anybody knows anything different.

^^^ THIS ^^^

That said, if you backed up your payment with a credit card rather than a bank account, you can try disputing the charge with your credit card company as well.

 

[snowgyre]

As fellow professional to another professional (I'm a wildlife biologist professor), it disturbs me greatly that they had the gall to use your professional signature to send that horrific email. That is character defamation, impersonation, and fraud, which can be especially harmful to those of us in highly public professional positions and legal action should definitely be pursued.

 

[Ephemeroptera]

As fellow professional to another professional (I'm a wildlife biologist professor), it disturbs me greatly that they had the gall to use your professional signature to send that horrific email. That is character defamation, impersonation, and fraud, which can be especially harmful to those of us in highly public professional positions and legal action should definitely be pursued.

Thanks so much for your comment. I could not agree more with you. I was going to send an e-mail today to my lawyer for advice, and also talk with the IT guys at work about seeing if there is some way they can show I did not send that e-mail. Even their response to the PayPal inquire was filled with lies implying I did not cooperate with them and acted in an unprofessional manner. This battle is far from over, that is for sure. I am getting ready to leave on Monday for Big Bend NP (I teach a field course there each summer) and will return just before the semester begins. That company certainly needs some kind of punishment for their behavior.

Thanks again.

 

[Pasodama]

I was going to send an e-mail today to my lawyer for advice, and also talk with the IT guys at work about seeing if there is some way they can show I did not send that e-mail. Even their response to the PayPal inquire was filled with lies implying I did not cooperate with them and acted in an unprofessional manner. This battle is far from over, that is for sure. I am getting ready to leave on Monday for Big Bend NP (I teach a field course there each summer) and will return just before the semester begins. That company certainly needs some kind of punishment for their behavior.

Based on what you have shared, the behavior/actions, of Florida Herps, is appalling.
Best of luck, in your endeavors, David.

....

 

[Ephemeroptera]

Based on what you have shared, the behavior/actions, of Florida Herps, is appalling.
Best of luck, in your endeavors, David.

....

That it is, without a doubt. You really learn about a company when there are problems. I have never experienced a company that behaves like them. Thanks.

 

[Pasodama]

That it is, without a doubt. You really learn about a company when there are problems. I have never experienced a company that behaves like them. Thanks.

So very true.

 

[Insomniac101]

PayPal, and live animals

Just a quick note from my prior experience with Paypal is no matter what they first decide, is that when/if it ever came to them actually paying out to you it will not happen.
They do not cover live animals period.
I had one doa milksnake about 2 years ago, Paypal initially agreed to refund but said I had to send item back.
When I then told them it was a dead snake they immediately did a 180 and stated there was NO coverage on live animals.
Have heard of a few other similar instances unless anybody knows anything different.

I received a refund on a snake purchase last month. The animal wasn't DOA, but very thin and dehydrated. I submitted my claim under "Item not as described". The ad photo showed a heathy animal that appeared to be of proper weight and hydration. It arrived as described above, and with a large mouth abscess as well.
I contacted the seller, who assured me that she "was working on" refunding me. She didn't, and I filed a dispute with PayPal. I explained what happened, and after the 10-day waiting period, where PayPal waits for the seller's response, they refunded my purchase price, including the shipping cost.
Obviously, I ate the vet expenses, which were considerable, but the snake is doing well, and has already gained a pound. I would think that a DOA would be considered "Item not as described", unless, of course, they were offering dead tarantulas for sale.

Kathy

 

[Black Adder]

I received a refund on a snake purchase last month. The animal wasn't DOA, but very thin and dehydrated. I submitted my claim under "Item not as described". The ad photo showed a heathy animal that appeared to be of proper weight and hydration. It arrived as described above, and with a large mouth abscess as well.
I contacted the seller, who assured me that she "was working on" refunding me. She didn't, and I filed a dispute with PayPal. I explained what happened, and after the 10-day waiting period, where PayPal waits for the seller's response, they refunded my purchase price, including the shipping cost.
Obviously, I ate the vet expenses, which were considerable, but the snake is doing well, and has already gained a pound. I would think that a DOA would be considered "Item not as described", unless, of course, they were offering dead tarantulas for sale.

Kathy

Did Paypal know it was actually a live animal that was not as described?
It is quite possible I suppose that Paypal have changed their policy as you state this was last month and my experience was closer to 2 years ago
If they have that is all for the good( still sad IF you have got to the stage where you have to do this) but maybe at least some recourse available.
Thanks for sharing your recent experience!

 

[snakesareawesome]

It is good that paypal may issue refunds where sufficient documentation exists, but there's always the danger of scammers on the receiving end, too. With a 50$ snake, that risks is well worth taking but with more expensive animals it can really hurt legitimate sellers.

 

[ElexisC]

As far as I know paypal still does not cover live animals, and the scammers that know that will intentionally say it's an animal so they don't have the money taken back.

 

[Insomniac101]

Did Paypal know it was actually a live animal that was not as described?
It is quite possible I suppose that Paypal have changed their policy as you state this was last month and my experience was closer to 2 years ago

Yes. There's a narrative section of the claim where you have to specifically describe the item advertised, and state why it's not what you bought.

It is good that paypal may issue refunds where sufficient documentation exists, but there's always the danger of scammers on the receiving end, too. With a 50$ snake, that risks is well worth taking but with more expensive animals it can really hurt legitimate sellers.

I had photos, the chart from the vet, and my receipts for treatment. The seller had deleted the ad, but not before I saved the photo, and URL of the ad. I think it would be difficult for a scammer to get a refund without being able to back up their claims.

As far as I know paypal still does not cover live animals, and the scammers that know that will intentionally say it's an animal so they don't have the money taken back.

Maybe their policy has changed then. I submitted exactly what happened, and had all of my documents proving my experience and expenses. I was issued a full refund in 10 days.

Kathy Robbins

 

[Ephemeroptera]

Truthfully, at this point, I do not care for the money to be returned to me. I just want to expose the company and their practices for all to see. The owner of FloridaHerps NEVER took responsibility for the highly unprofessional e-mails that came from his business. Here are quotes he wrote in the BBB report which I initiated against him:

1) "As far as what you claim to be email from someone here. You were only emailing with 1 person here. Kristen. She is a 44 year grandmother that is a Cert. Vet. Asst. and a Cert. Lab. Tech. You really expect me to believe she wrote vulgar emails to you? Never going to happen."

2) "Apparently we have a ghost in our office that writes to customers for no reason and I guess they don't sign their emails."

Obviously he does not even take any of this seriously. And he never provided an explanation of statements made to PayPal that were false such as offers of refund. It is my opinion that he is the individual who writes these highly unprofessional e-mails peppered with personal attacks, obscenities, and patronizing comments. I came to this conclusion after reading statements he made to customers over the last several years with similar situations. The wording and style are extremely similar. He often uses references to "childish behavior". Many other examples, but just not wroth the time to go through all of them. Here is the last statement he made in the BBB report:

"BBB can close this complaint. Customer didn't ask for action, just a place to bitch and moan."

Really? Using an obscenity in a report for all the public to see? Fits the pattern of his previous behaviors over the years.

 

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

I agree that their interaction with was completely unprofessional, and makes them a company that some may not deal with, as a result.

But what exactly was it about "no warranty" that you failed to comprehend?

 

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

That should read "with you"

 

[Ephemeroptera]

I agree that their interaction with was completely unprofessional, and makes them a company that some may not deal with, as a result.

But what exactly was it about "no warranty" that you failed to comprehend?

I completely understood the warranty, that was never really an issue. Because I had purchased from them over the last couple of years without any major problems, I inquired to see if they might want to make an exception and perhaps provide some compensation. It was the highly unprofessional manner in which they responded - personal attacks, profanity, etc. And then the owner denies all the e-mails that were sent to me from his company. If they would have just said, sorry but no exceptions, I would have left it at that. Once I told them I found a replacement spider from a vendor that was CB and guaranteed live arrival, they just went off the rails. I can accept a decision from a company where they do not want to go beyond their warranty, but start lying and using profanity and personal attacks, that is completely and totally unacceptable in my opinion. That was the part of their business I waned to expose - how they treated customers.

 

[LauraB]

I agree that their interaction with was completely unprofessional, and makes them a company that some may not deal with, as a result.

But what exactly was it about "no warranty" that you failed to comprehend?

This Lloyd, from Nickolas Anastasiou. Common sense + vendor failure and vendor's apparent lack of attention when shipping some live species over others, despite their claims.

... the representative attempted to lay blame at your feet for ordering during hot weather, but the company elected to ship the spider (on a date you do not seem to have specifically selected) during a time that defied its own terms for the animals (reptiles) it does set minimum and maximum temperatures for shipment coverage. That would seem, between it being above the temperature apex for coverage for animals they do guarantee and it being an animal they consider to be so sensitive that it is not even offered a guarantee due to their perception of its sensitivity, that they knowingly selected a date -in their own thought process- that would have a higher than average or more probable chance of failure (death).

 

[Ephemeroptera]

This Lloyd, from Nickolas Anastasiou. Common sense + vendor failure and vendor's apparent lack of attention when shipping some live species over others, despite their claims.

I agree. That is why I thought perhaps they might want to provide some compensation. And, I just assumed they knew best - my fault for assuming. And, I have received many, many reptiles during the heat of the summer without issue. I have had some individuals refuse to ship until weather conditions were more optimal, and that I could respect.