Bad Guy Nicholas P. Heistan CNH Reptiles

[pwebyd90]

Agreed to buy a Het Red Axanthic female from this guy, never done business with him before but we live in the same state and he offered to meet me half way and it was a pretty long drive, so I gave him a shot. Eventually we decided it would be easier and cheaper to just ship, so we went that route, but thats not relevant to the story much We agreed on $175, and I was going to make payments on the snake... We agreed to a non refundable deposit of $35 in case I backed out of the sale and didn't finish paying for her... Every payment I sent we kept in contact about, him asking when I thought I could get her paid off so he could ship, perfect temps, other snakes he had, etc..

About 3 weeks and 4 payments later I sent the final payment, and sent Nicholas a message telling him the weather looked all clear for a Monday shipment. He responded that he would have to add up the payments because it wasn't adding up to $175, so I sent him a message with the payments and adding them up equaled 175. He replied back "Sending multiple payments there has been a lot of fees taken out", So i explained to him that the 3% fee would be the same with one lump sum or multiple payments.

He replied "That why said going to add everything up . And I don't think adds up .. also it 175 not 175 and I pay the fees .. I have never had a problem before.." I told him that we never discussed me paying the fee and its against paypals terms of service to charge the buyer the fee. Normally I would just pay the 3%, we've all done it before.. but the fact that he waited until I sent the very last payment to even mention once that he would be charging me the fees, and that they were more than the normal 3% just really upset me. I requested that he refund the money, as I wasn't going to pay more than our agreed amount.

Nicholas did not respond for several hours when he had been active in our conversation before I requested the refund. I sent him another message letting him know I was going to escalate it to paypal customer service, which he got upset about because they locked the money in his account. He is refusing to refund the $35 down payment because it was 'non refundable'... the non refundable deposit was in case I backed out or didnt finish paying.. the reason the refund was requested was because he tried to charge me more, so I explained to him I felt like he scammed me, waited until I sent payments he knew paypal wouldnt cover because it wasnt a lump sum, then before he sent me the snake I'd have to send him more money...

I am now going through my bank to get a refund because he is still refusing to refund the measly $35. He said he deserves it for me wasting his time. They are doing an investigation with paypal and thankfully I'm covered for the refund. Anybody running a business knows that adding onto the final price after payment has been sent is shady and he should have refunded the money since it wasnt me backing out, it was him trying to be greedy. I asked him multiple times to refund it or I was going to do a bad guy BOI on him, so here it is.. And I'm blocked on facebook by him now so here's some screenshots of our conversation.

 

[CwnAnnwn]

Has Mr. Heistan been notified of this thread? Anyone that is not blocked and has facebook would like to inform him of this.

I am trying to figure out the total he wanted?

175 plus paypal fees?

$1.20 for four transactions + $5.25 for the 3% of 175?

 

[pwebyd90]

Paypal already told me they cant do anything about it, its all up to the seller. He refunded $140 a week ago which I am very happy about, but keeps refusing to refund the deposit.. The non refundable deposit was if I backed out, not if he upped the price the last minute knowing Paypal wouldn't do anything about it.. seems like scam to me, pay more or lose out

 

[pwebyd90]

Has Mr. Heistan been notified of this thread? Anyone that is not blocked and has facebook would like to inform him of this.

I linked it on his CNH reptiles page so he would know about it, he's blocked me on his main page however

 

[Dennis Hultman]

He is a member here.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php?u=55133

 

[ElexisC]

So you're worried about a $35 non refundable deposit? Non refundable deposits aren't refunded because you decide you no longer want the snake. Non refundable is non refundable. Also if you're making 4 payments on 175 should you really be buying animals? I sent Nick a message that this is here.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[ElexisC]

Which I was just told he never said anything about fees, that he needed to get home from duck hunting and check his computer and such. Please post your conversations proving he said anything about you paying the fees

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[ElexisC]

Ok the screen shots didn't appear for me before (on the tapatalk ap and sometimes photos just don't load), a lot of sellers I've seen add the fees to the asking price, or some people pay friends & family so some people may not even get fees from some doing it that way, whether the seller asks for that payment method or not, which some people think it's wrong to ask for that payment method but if the buyer does it not the sellers fault imo.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[ElexisC]

Which I was just told he never said anything about fees, that he needed to get home from duck hunting and check his computer and such. Please post your conversations proving he said anything about you paying the fees

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

I realized I said this wrong, I was told he never said anything about charging you for the fees, that he needed to check his computer when he got home. My last comment for now.

 

[Lucille]

Paypal already told me they cant do anything about it, its all up to the seller. He refunded $140 a week ago which I am very happy about, but keeps refusing to refund the deposit.. The non refundable deposit was if I backed out, not if he upped the price the last minute knowing Paypal wouldn't do anything about it.. seems like scam to me, pay more or lose out

I totally agree. Nonrefundable deposits are penalties if the buyer does something wrong, they certainly should not apply if a seller does something wrong.

I am now going through my bank to get a refund .

Good for you, and I hope that works out. BTW, sometimes sellers whose accounts have been locked by Paypal will promise to clear everything up if you drop your case. Don't do it, once you drop, you have no further protection and they can do what they want. Let him stew in his locked account while you go through your bank.

 

[pwebyd90]

I totally agree. Nonrefundable deposits are penalties if the buyer does something wrong, they certainly should not apply if a seller does something wrong.




Good for you, and I hope that works out. BTW, sometimes sellers whose accounts have been locked by Paypal will promise to clear everything up if you drop your case. Don't do it, once you drop, you have no further protection and they can do what they want. Let him stew in his locked account while you go through your bank.

That's exactly how I feel, he kept telling me I needed to drop the case for the refund to go through, so I called PayPal and they told me once I close the case it can't be reopened..

 

[pwebyd90]

So you're worried about a $35 non refundable deposit? Non refundable deposits aren't refunded because you decide you no longer want the snake. Non refundable is non refundable. Also if you're making 4 payments on 175 should you really be buying animals? I sent Nick a message that this is here.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Does it really matter the prices?

 

[Black Adder]

Did Nick actually state just how much he wanted extra in "fees" in a dollar amount?
While I agree it is a small amount and it is very common for seller to request buyer to either pay the fees or send as a "gift", he would have needed to state this upfront before the transaction or first "non refundable" payment was made.
No matter the amount you cannot then go and move the goalposts after the event.

 

[CwnAnnwn]

Anyone that tries to get pass the paypal fees needs to stop using paypal. They want the convenience of the service with out paying for the service. He could have just stated the price was $180. Or added the fee to shipping and handling.

I would really like to hear from the seller on this one. And I agree with Mr. Zowak, paypal needs to be notified. The sellers account needs to be suspended.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Ok the screen shots didn't appear for me before (on the tapatalk ap and sometimes photos just don't load), a lot of sellers I've seen add the fees to the asking price, or some people pay friends & family so some people may not even get fees from some doing it that way, whether the seller asks for that payment method or not, which some people think it's wrong to ask for that payment method but if the buyer does it not the sellers fault imo.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

It isn't that some people think it is wrong, It is against the TOS of Paypal to make the buyers pay a fee or request the "Friends and Family" payment to avoid the fees for purchases. The whole point of his post was that he didn't agree to the fees. NOT that he changed his mind and backed out of the purchase.

You're so quick to jump in here and defend this person your first post had nothing to do with the complaint.

So you're worried about a $35 non refundable deposit? Non refundable deposits aren't refunded because you decide you no longer want the snake. Non refundable is non refundable. Also if you're making 4 payments on 175 should you really be buying animals? I sent Nick a message that this is here.

That he shouldn't worry about it because it is only $35 dollars and if he has to make payment plans on such a little amount of money he shouldn't own snakes? What does that have to do with his complaint about the transaction? Absolutely nothing but try to take away from the complaint that the seller tried to get him to pay the paypal fees at the end of the transaction.

I think it is evident in the screenshots and what he stated was he didn't back out because he didn't want the snake. It was the fees asked for after the last payment sent.

Regardless of the amount if at the end of paying off the snake the seller then stated he wanted fees payed, the seller is in the wrong. It doesn't matter if it is $35 or $350.

It would be one thing if the seller mentioned it upfront and they both agreed that the fees would be payed by the buyer. It would be against the terms of service from Paypal but that would be between them. It is quit different to tell a buyer after he sends payment that he has to pay the fees he isn't suppose to pay.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Ok the screen shots didn't appear for me before (on the tapatalk ap and sometimes photos just don't load), a lot of sellers I've seen add the fees to the asking price, or some people pay friends & family so some people may not even get fees from some doing it that way, whether the seller asks for that payment method or not, which some people think it's wrong to ask for that payment method but if the buyer does it not the sellers fault imo.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Most know it is wrong and against the terms of service. Not some.

Buyers have no recourse either when paying as "friends and family".

 

[ElexisC]

Most know it is wrong and against the terms of service. Not some.

Buyers have no recourse either when paying as "friends and family".

And you're quick to jump all over me, I posted that last night, I did NOT say that Nick asked him to pay that way, or that nick asked him to pay the fees, in fact I said he said he didn't ask him to pay the fees, that he needed to see what all was on his paypal when he got home because there were random fees as well that he wanted to check on from his computer. Nick was out duck hunting and the OP got angry because he didn't answer one message while he was hunting and said he wanted to see what was going on in his paypal, which he told me there were miscellaneous fees that his son had done with his phone.

Now I am currently in a hospital bed, I am not going to answer again right now.

 

[Mistyck]

It shouldn't matter if he was "out" or not. Those fees are fees that the seller eats when they do a transaction on Paypal. He should not have said that he's not paying the fees (which he did when he said, "Not 175 and I pay the fees too") If he was so worried about the fees, then he should have priced the snake higher in order to get in the range that he wanted after the fees were taken out.

Either way, the seller isn't doing himself any justice by keeping the "deposit" when the buyer wasn't backing out due to changing his mind. He backed out because the seller added additional fees on top of the already agreed upon price AFTER it was paid off.

 

[Pasodama]

For reasons already brought up, by others, the seller is in the wrong.
Seller should refund the OP, in full, without keeping the nonrefundable portion that, in this particular case, he is not entitled to.

....

 

[chkadii]

And you're quick to jump all over me, I posted that last night, I did NOT say that Nick asked him to pay that way, or that nick asked him to pay the fees, in fact I said he said he didn't ask him to pay the fees, that he needed to see what all was on his paypal when he got home because there were random fees as well that he wanted to check on from his computer. Nick was out duck hunting and the OP got angry because he didn't answer one message while he was hunting and said he wanted to see what was going on in his paypal, which he told me there were miscellaneous fees that his son had done with his phone.

Now I am currently in a hospital bed, I am not going to answer again right now.

So according to the information he told Elexis, the situation went something like this:

• Shaun confirms he made the last payment and wants to discuss shipping.
• Nick had to double-check his account because he was confused by extra fees. Because he wasn't aware of the fees from the phone, he assumed they were due to the multiple payments. This misunderstanding could be supported by his text "I have never had a problem before..", by which he means with Paypal fees, not a buyer refusing to pay fees. (Still speculation based partially on third-party information at this point, however.)
• Shaun protested to paying the 3% Paypal fee (seen in the screenshots).
• Nick goes AWOL. Shaun, still under the impression that they were both talking about the 3%, requests a refund and the rest is outlined in the BOI.

While I see that the situation may be due to a simple misunderstanding, Nick said "also it [sic] 175 not 175 and I pay the fees" which can only be interpreted as all fees, not just the mystery fees outside of the standard 3%.

At that point in the conversation, it would have been better for Nick to say, "My Paypal totals are not adding up correctly and I'm out hunting at the moment. Please let me confirm we're settled and I'll get back to you by (whenever he was finished hunting)." That way it wouldn't put the onus on Shaun to set the timeline and proceed accordingly in Nick's absence. I understand that sellers shouldn't have to tell the world where they are every minute of the day, but with an open issue like this, Nick could have put in a bit more effort to communicate with his customer and manage Shaun's expectations about how the situation would be handled (or at least when it would be handled by).

I sympathize with Nick being caught off-guard and concerned by unknown extra fees. That said, regardless of what the fees were for this transaction, he should have either taken the hit as a seller and proceeded with the transaction or refunded ALL of the money if he thought the fees made the transaction no longer feasible. The buyer walks away disappointed but whole, and the seller walks away wiser. It would be different if Nick wasn't sure if Shaun made all of the payments, but that wasn't the issue according to everything we've seen here so far - the fees were the issue. It is that distinction that puts Nick in the wrong here. I don't think he's a scam artist, and I don't think he tried to pull one over on Shaun. Unfortunately for him, "I shouldn't have to pay this large amount of fees that I don't understand, was not expecting, and have never seen before" is the same as saying "I shouldn't have to pay fees," regardless of him expecting to take the hit on the standard 3% (if that's even the case). Shaun only acted based on the information, or lack of information, Nick provided him. In the texts, it is Nick who found the original transaction unacceptable. Therefore, Nick should refund the entire deposit and put this issue to bed.

PS - Elexis, this post is not to antagonize you, and I wish you the best for whatever your hospital stay entails!