Buyer to get left paying PayPal fees?

[lillyorchid]

I've used PayPal many times over the years, I've kinda gotten out of the herp world over the past few years. Recently I've been looking at a few animals and I even went as far as trying to buy one. All was well until the seller told me that I had to send the payment to him as a "gift" to avoid fees, I declined in doing so due to that voiding all buyer protection. He now has resent the invoice with a new total and is saying I will need to pay for the PayPal fee's to cover him. WHAT!? Since when has this been going on? The animal was supposed to be $300.00 shipped but now I have a invoice for $360.70 shipped.

 

[snowgyre]

Some sellers charge paypal fees. I avoid those sellers. If they wish to avoid the fees, they can always accept other forms of payment (e.g. personal checks, money orders, etc.). Charging buyers paypal fees is dishonest... the seller benefits more from using Paypal's services than the buyer, so the seller should be responsible for covering Paypal's fees.

 

[snowgyre]

Also, Paypal's fees DO NOT amount to $60 for a $300 amount. You are being ripped off. Paypal's fees are 2.9% + $0.30 for each transaction. For a $300 transaction, the seller is being charged $9, NOT $60.70. I would back out of the deal and avoid the seller in the future. A BOI post is warranted on the seller if the amount you stated is not a typo.

 

[Reptile Frenzy]

Yeah I never charge a buyer paypal fees! Paypal charges me 3% but that is part of running the business. I have had customers send it friends and family but that was on their own accord. I have done the same for other people. Its up to you but you shouldnt be asked to do so. I PM'd you about tricks also!

 

[sschind]

Hopefully this wasn't your white whale because my advice to you would be to walk away. As far as I know this seller is violating at least two of paypal's TOS (requesting the gift transfer and adding fees to the invoice) the addition of a further 60 bucks is simply an attempt to rip you off. If it were me I'd send a simple thanks but no thanks and look elsewhere for the animal.

Normally when I see "buyer pays PP fees" I just hit the back button and look elsewhere but I have paid PP fees as a buyer a few times. In order for me to do that three criteria have to be met. 1) It has to be an animal I really wanted. 2) It has to be stated up front in the ad. 3) The price still has to be acceptable.

 

[MrTPlush]

I don't find anything wrong with requesting a buyer to pay the fees...but $60 is not even close and a total scam. Back out and avoid

 

[SPJ]

It's against the TOS of paypal for the buyer to pay the fees. Any seller asking for the fees needs to be reported to paypal and have their account shut down.

 

[bcr229]

It's against the TOS of paypal for the buyer to pay the fees. Any seller asking for the fees needs to be reported to paypal and have their account shut down.

Exactly. The price should already include any PayPal or swipe fees if a credit card is used. The seller can offer a cash discount if the buyer chooses to pay in cash or equivalent such as a USPS MO.

 

[SPJ]

Exactly. The price should already include any PayPal or swipe fees if a credit card is used. The seller can offer a cash discount if the buyer chooses to pay in cash or equivalent such as a USPS MO.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[MrTPlush]

It's against the TOS of paypal for the buyer to pay the fees. Any seller asking for the fees needs to be reported to paypal and have their account shut down.

Actually(correct me if I am wrong) but you can request the buyer to pay the fees. To do this I think the seller must set it up and send an invoice to the buyer. If the buyer just sends money as a goods/services I don't think it gives this option and instead will just subtract the fees before the seller receives payment.

 

[SPJ]

It's against paypal TOS. The person getting the money is responsible for the fees. If any seller asks you to add additional funds to cover the fees, they need to be passed by.
Do you go into the grocery store and use a CC and have to pay extra? No. The fee is for the SELLERS convenience. They need to price accordingly and not ask extra for it. Anyone who does is in violation of their account and should have it shut down.
Any seller who asks for the money to be sent as friends and family or a gift should also be avoided. A buyer has NO recourse if the deal go south when paying that way.

 

[CraftingDreams]

Going to chime in here.. I am a big paypal user, and have been using it about 10 years now.. love love love them..

Here is the deal...

1. sending friends and family for a purchase is against paypal TOS as well. While you CAN do it.. if you get caught sending, its not a good end result for you or the buyer.

2. sending friends and family as stated earlier in the post.. voids the buyers protection. you have NO recourse in getting the money back.

3. The fees are not HUGE, though when sending a larger amount, (ex $200+) it does start to eat at the sellers received amount. There are some stores out there, that pass the CC fees to the customer, its normally only when a transaction is under $10. Its kind of tacky to tell a customer that is spending $300 with you, that they need to cough up more money. I know buyers don't like it even if its included in the price, but this happens so much with many many places that take paypal.. you just don't know it because they include that minimal fee in with the price already. Its common business practice...sadly.

Now, here is what I do.. and NO ONE asks me to do it... its just how I am... If I purchase something for $200, I will send $210... (I usually just do $5 per every $100)... In the case where I am sent an invoice for $200.. it does not give me the option to add funds, so that gets paid as it is...

Most of the time when I do this, its with people that I know, people I might be picking up an animal or product from in a week, (I will go and pay them now incase they really needed it NOW and not in a week) AND people Im making a LARGE purchase with and making payments. Each time I send a payment, I add a bit to cover fees. Usually as a way of saying thank you for waiting a week for pick up, or allowing me to make payments. It also shows them I am serious about the item I am purchasing.

I am NOT in any way saying everyone should do this... it is just how I am.

Its not unheard of for businesses of any type to charge a fee for CC use (gas stations do it a lot).. EX: 2.39 per gallon cash, 2.49 per gallon credit/debit.

To me, its not so much who pays the fees as much as it is about its presentation... you never know what you are paying for when you purchase from some people... You might have purchased an animal in the past that was $200 and in all reality, they could have already included any fees or packing fees in that 200. No one will complain about that because you just don't know... doesn't make the seller bad.. it just means they are projecting any costs and adding it to the retail price of the pet.. much like some include taxes in items so they don't have to figure it out to charge on the spot. Which btw, I am pretty sure (not 100% though) you have to pay taxes on any animal purchased in a store? Which is an added cost that no one complains about... would you still feel the same if a breeder said, ok the animal is $200 PLUS tax? Most places include it in the price unless you go to a pet store to purchase. That or they avoid the IRS...

 

[hhmoore]

Now, here is what I do.. and NO ONE asks me to do it... its just how I am... If I purchase something for $200, I will send $210... (I usually just do $5 per every $100)... In the case where I am sent an invoice for $200.. it does not give me the option to add funds, so that gets paid as it is...

I have had buyers send me payment as a gift, or include fees, without being asked. In the first case, without exception, the payment was immediately refunded (with an explanation, of course). Some complained, especially if it resulted in shipping delay because they didn't resubmit payment right away. In the second case, the additional payment was refunded. When I post a price as $250, shipped, that is what I expect to receive. I appreciated the thought/gesture...but, frankly, I would have preferred that people not create extra steps for me.
(And, yes, I told a few of the people that complained to take their business elsewhere. My favorite part about selling animals was that I never HAD to do it, so I never worried about losing a sale.)

Its not unheard of for businesses of any type to charge a fee for CC use (gas stations do it a lot).. EX: 2.39 per gallon cash, 2.49 per gallon credit/debit.

In some states, that is illegal. Regardless, it is in violation of PayPal's TOS - to which every user clicks to agree - to charge extra for using their service.

it just means they are projecting any costs and adding it to the retail price of the pet..

Aside from it being the appropriate way, doesn't it also make the most sense?

much like some include taxes in items so they don't have to figure it out to charge on the spot. Which btw, I am pretty sure (not 100% though) you have to pay taxes on any animal purchased in a store? Which is an added cost that no one complains about... would you still feel the same if a breeder said, ok the animal is $200 PLUS tax? Most places include it in the price unless you go to a pet store to purchase. That or they avoid the IRS.

If you are talking about expos - yes, they are required to charge sales tax...and most will simply include it in the price for the sake of simplicity. (Also, you'd be surprised at how many sales would be lost, even if there is a big sign indicating that posted prices do not include sales tax)
The same is the case for any "real" business, if the sale is in-state. Buyers are supposed to declare out of state purchases, and pay the applicable sales tax. (I wouldn't be surprised to see some attempt at enforcement of that in the not too distant future.)
Avoiding the IRS - you'd probably be surprised at how many reptile "businesses" really aren't businesses at all.

 

[CraftingDreams]

The only time I have purchased from breeders, they have sent me invoices, so in those cases, the invoice was paid. They never asked for fees or anything like that.. Which is fine... when I send extra normally its people I know (who might be strapped and that fee might make them come up short) and its my way of helping out a little. They are not breeders... just people who are selling items they have because they are a bit down on their luck. As far as those who wait for me to pick up in a week.. again, not breeders, and even if they were, to me, they are doing me a huge favor, and the extra cost they are paying for any food and care to me is worth the little bit extra. I have the car on the weekends only..(which totally sucks but it is what it is).. and that is usually when I can go pick stuff up.. If I find the animal on Monday, and they are holding it for me until Sat... that's a weeks worth of care.. $10 convenience (even though they don't ask for it) to me is worth it.. people sell animals etc for many reasons.. most are usually listed and if its financial related, the extra money spent that week could be an issue. Same for those I buy as a payment plan.. just a little extra in my eye for the convenience of helping ME out.

to me, I am paying it forward.. Its my way of showing appreciation..

Again, not saying everyone should do it... as far as I see it, its no different then tipping someone who helped you carry your bags to the car.. they are not allowed to ask for it, but a lot of people tip them.. especially when it snows.

Its just me. My husband hates it.. course he is a LOUSY tipper in all aspects, and normally I wait for him to go up and pay the bill so I can hand the server their tip.. lol. Im not rich by far.. but I have been in positions where tips were vital to my survival, and I appreciate good service no matter what the service is for.

As far as it being illegal to do it in some states... it must not be in NJ.. LOL.. because they ALL seem to do it. . ugg... the local pharmacy.. if I buy say a candy bar and use my debit card, they frigging charge me like 1.50.. You know, those times when you need a chocolate fix but you only have a few bucks left on the debit card and cant get to the grocery store ... lol I know of at least two gas stations locally that do it.. price increases if you use a debit or credit card...So we use the ONLY gas station that is lower in price as it is and its the same price regardless of what payment method you use.

Taxes.. ya well.. its hard for the IRS to come in and track most transactions for animals you bred, so I have NO doubt that most "businesses" are not "businesses" at all. Its probably why a lot of people don't have websites Easier to be tracked if you are conducting yourself as a business on a site with a domain in your name.


anyway, anything else I type will totally change topic.. LOL.. so I will leave this as it is... Im told I have the gift of gab..

 

[SobekSerpents]

If any seller asks you to add additional funds to cover the fees, they need to be passed by.

Any seller who asks for the money to be sent as friends and family or a gift should also be avoided. A buyer has NO recourse if the deal go south when paying that way.

That's pretty black and white...

There have been some really honest breeders with great reputations that have required the buyer to pay the paypal fee over the years. Their customer service and animals have always always been first class. As long as the fee gets paid, I doubt Paypal would do anything about it.

Bob Clark, Mike Wilbanks and several other top end breeders required you to cover the fee for years for etc...

 

[Lucille]

Bob Clark, Mike Wilbanks and several other top end breeders required you to cover the fee for years for etc...

Checked out Mike Wilbank's site, didn't see anything about covering fees, but it is a big site. Chris, can you locate that?
Just checked out Bob Clark, didn't see anything about Paypal fees.
However, in order to make an informed decision about claims of sellers who in years past charged customers for Paypal fees, one would have to be able to view the Paypal TOS for that time period. Paypal TOS has evolved over the years.

As long as the fee gets paid, I doubt Paypal would do anything about it.

In fact, I think Paypal would do something about those violating their TOS. They have quite a list of what they are able to do to those violating the various items listed in their TOS, including withdrawing the seller's ability to use Paypal as a payment method. That might be a huge strike against a business, particularly an online business, whose customers do not want to give out a credit card number.

from Paypal:
4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

 

[Mistyck]

Going to chime in here.. I am a big paypal user, and have been using it about 10 years now.. love love love them..

Here is the deal...

1. sending friends and family for a purchase is against paypal TOS as well. While you CAN do it.. if you get caught sending, its not a good end result for you or the buyer.

Just because you CAN doesn't mean you should. And yes it's against the TOS, so I don't know why people do it. Unless you're sending/receiving money to/from friends or family, don't touch it or accept it!

2. sending friends and family as stated earlier in the post.. voids the buyers protection. you have NO recourse in getting the money back.

Exactly!

3. The fees are not HUGE, though when sending a larger amount, (ex $200+) it does start to eat at the sellers received amount. There are some stores out there, that pass the CC fees to the customer, its normally only when a transaction is under $10. Its kind of tacky to tell a customer that is spending $300 with you, that they need to cough up more money. I know buyers don't like it even if its included in the price, but this happens so much with many many places that take paypal.. you just don't know it because they include that minimal fee in with the price already. Its common business practice...sadly.

It's only common business practice to ask for more money on top of what you've already quoted if you're trying to pull one over on the customer. Which is why most businesses/people already have those numbers factored into the price.

Now, here is what I do.. and NO ONE asks me to do it... its just how I am... If I purchase something for $200, I will send $210... (I usually just do $5 per every $100)... In the case where I am sent an invoice for $200.. it does not give me the option to add funds, so that gets paid as it is...

Pardon me but; You're out of your mind! If you are purchasing something for a given amount, then why the heck would you add more money on top of that amount? Most sellers who sell things and use paypal have already calculated the fees that it will cost us (them) and added that into the purchase price of the item. So to give a seller additional money is just crazy to me!

We sell quite a bit on ebay, and when I list items I have already calculated exactly how much I want to clear on an item (after paypal, ebay and shipping fees) and price my item accordingly (and most of the time we're still one of the lowest sellers out there for that item. If I don't think I'll make the money we want to make on an item after all the fees are taken out, then I won't list it and my other half will take it to the market and sell it there.) If someone were to send me even more money than I've already priced the item at, then I would refund them and refuse to do business with them. I'm not going to have someone possibly use the fact that they paid extra (even though we never asked them to) against me if something were to arise.

Not only is that bad business for both you and the seller, that's setting a precedent that all people should do that; when in fact no one should.

Most of the time when I do this, its with people that I know, people I might be picking up an animal or product from in a week, (I will go and pay them now incase they really needed it NOW and not in a week) AND people Im making a LARGE purchase with and making payments. Each time I send a payment, I add a bit to cover fees. Usually as a way of saying thank you for waiting a week for pick up, or allowing me to make payments. It also shows them I am serious about the item I am purchasing.

I am NOT in any way saying everyone should do this... it is just how I am.

Again, you're setting a precedent that does not and should not be followed. It doesn't matter if you know them, or if you think you're doing good by doing that...You're not. And you're setting up the rest of the people that purchase things from those sellers to be told that they have to do the same thing or else risk not getting what they want.

Its not unheard of for businesses of any type to charge a fee for CC use (gas stations do it a lot).. EX: 2.39 per gallon cash, 2.49 per gallon credit/debit.

And those people say that they are charging those fees upfront, so you have the option of purchasing from them or not.

To me, its not so much who pays the fees as much as it is about its presentation... you never know what you are paying for when you purchase from some people... You might have purchased an animal in the past that was $200 and in all reality, they could have already included any fees or packing fees in that 200. No one will complain about that because you just don't know... doesn't make the seller bad.. it just means they are projecting any costs and adding it to the retail price of the pet

Which is why sellers should price their items (whether it's goods or animals) in such a way that they are comfortable with the price after all fees are taken out. (Which is what I said we do earlier when we sell items on ebay.) If the seller doesn't do that, then that's their problem, and cannot ask the buyer to pay any fees that the seller might incur after the fact.

That's what makes it bad business and shady. If you're willing to accept one price before you have to pay fees, then I suggest you price it to get that price after you get the fees taken out of the payment you get.

 

[bcr229]

Which is why sellers should price their items (whether it's goods or animals) in such a way that they are comfortable with the price after all fees are taken out.

You, I, and everyone who runs a business knows that's how you set a price, especially if you take PP or CC's.

The vast majority of ball python sellers, while they want to be a business, are really hobbyists who are new to selling anything, and so they make mistakes when negotiating their prices.

 

[Mistyck]

You, I, and everyone who runs a business knows that's how you set a price, especially if you take PP or CC's.

The vast majority of ball python sellers, while they want to be a business, are really hobbyists who are new to selling anything, and so they make mistakes when negotiating their prices.

There is truth in that. And unfortunately, it's just something they have to figure it out learn from.

 

[Mistyck]

There is truth in that. And unfortunately, it's just something they have to figure it out AND learn from.

*Might help if I could complete a thought before hitting submit. I've been up entirely too long this past week!*