Inquiry Snakes at Sunset

[Snakesatsunset]

Snake in photo is the snake she recieved.
We have our webmaster notified to change it, as its been so long we forgot the issue completely.
Her original decision was to keep it for a 50% discount (if i understood correctly re-reading the emails), we want to let her keep it and give her a 100% refund on the snake. If she send backs we would refund 100% but not send replacement.

 

[BeauBoi]

HI Mike,

Thanks for providing the correspondence, it illuminates things. I wholeheartedly agree with keeping the correspondence between yourself and the original customer, which is why I am torn between wanting to ask you to post the messages Tina sent you (since you mentioned threats) or not (to prevent further "muddying of the waters").

Personally, I don't see anything in the original correspondence you posted that would lead anyone to believe you ~intentionally~ sent out a kinked snake.

Also, if that ~is~ a stock photo, then we really need to see actual photos (or better yet, video) of the snake.

Aside from the above, I am going to hold any more questions to myself for the moment.

~Beau

 

[BeauBoi]

Snake in photo is the snake she recieved.
We have our webmaster notified to change it, as its been so long we forgot the issue completely.
Her original decision was to keep it for a 50% discount (if i understood correctly re-reading the emails), we want to let her keep it and give her a 100% refund on the snake. If she send backs we would refund 100% but not send replacement.

Sorry, I missed this post.

Regardless, more photos (or video) from the customer's end would still be welcome.
~Beau

 

[Snakesatsunset]

The first couple pictures she sent it wasn't obvious it had a kink, then she sent a photo where shows a kink. We agree that is has a kink, thats not the issue.
She originally asked for 50% discount and to keep it. We agreed,but it slipped and we never sent discount. Then 3 months later, her Mom asked for replacement, label, and threatens bad reviews. Which is fine, as her daughter had an issue and we forgot to fix it at the time it happened.
We tried processing refund via our processor just now, and it will not let us due to time period that has elapsed. We sent a cheyenne an email that she should get a refund check within 7-10 days.
AS per what Cheyenne wanted at the time she was in contact with us in October, instead of 50% discount on the snake, we are doing 100% refund on it, and she can keep it.

 

[BeauBoi]

The first couple pictures she sent it wasn't obvious it had a kink, then she sent a photo where shows a kink. We agree that is has a kink, thats not the issue.
She originally asked for 50% discount and to keep it. We agreed,but it slipped and we never sent discount. Then 3 months later, her Mom asked for replacement, label, and threatens bad reviews. Which is fine, as her daughter had an issue and we forgot to fix it at the time it happened.
We tried processing refund via our processor just now, and it will not let us due to time period that has elapsed. We sent a cheyenne an email that she should get a refund check within 7-10 days.
AS per what Cheyenne wanted at the time she was in contact with us in October, instead of 50% discount on the snake, we are doing 100% refund on it, and she can keep it.

Well, I personally think that is both fair and magnanimous. Of course my opinion is irrelevant in this situation, so I guess we will wait and see what we hear from the customer. Thanks for adding clarity to this situation, Mike.
~Beau

 

[Pasodama]

Snake in photo is the snake she recieved.
We have our webmaster notified to change it, as its been so long we forgot the issue completely.
Her original decision was to keep it for a 50% discount (if i understood correctly re-reading the emails), we want to let her keep it and give her a 100% refund on the snake. If she send backs we would refund 100% but not send replacement.

Okay.
The reason I asked was due to the following quote (below) which seems to contradict the above post.
Can you clarify the, seeming, discrepancy?

Now come LAST WEEK , her mom(Tina) starts sending us threats about BBB, about returning snake and making it worth her while, how they cant breed it anymore and wanted to breed it, etc, etc. or she would post everywhere our business and how we purposefully send a kinked snake, and trying to rip people off by offering same snake on site (its a stock photo which is clearly stated on website), etc.

 

[Snakesatsunset]

She happened to be shipped one of 20+ pastaves in stock that happened to be the one used to take the stock photo. Just coincidence. We have a number on our site http://www.snakesatsunset.com for texts where customers who are interested in individual pictures of specific animals can request photos to choose from. 50% of Snakes at Sunset customers do not ask for photos, they know we have good stuff and great reptiles for sale but to help everyone, we have an APP text phone number for almost immediate response and pics of what you are interested in.

 

[Pasodama]

She happened to be shipped one of 20+ pastaves in stock that happened to be the one used to take the stock photo. Just coincidence. We have a number on our site http://www.snakesatsunset.com for texts where customers who are interested in individual pictures of specific animals can request photos to choose from. 50% of Snakes at Sunset customers do not ask for photos, they know we have good stuff and great reptiles for sale but to help everyone, we have an APP text phone number for almost immediate response and pics of what you are interested in.

Thank you, Mike, for the clarification.

....

 

[CeltGunn]

Ok guys, There is a lot that is missing in all of this story as well.

My daughter HAS tried to converse with Mike in regards to returning this kinked snake to Mike. Mike had informed her that a label would be sent to her, that the snake could be donated to local schools or what have you. That Mike could send her a different Pastave without a kink. Originally this is what my daughter had wanted.

Mike then insisted that my daughter had to remind him to send her a label so that she would be able to get her snake. Who does business this way? Seriously?! My daughter tried to keep contacting Mike to send a label to her to return this Pastave with several kinks, but met with rudeness and continual behaviour that left her in tears, she did cave and decide to keep this kinked pastave because by then she'd become attached to it. It doesn't take all that long for people to cave to being treated like they just don't matter. Which is what happened with my daughter.

I finally stepped in because I fully believe that if you're going to run a business, you shouldn't ever treat a customer in the manner my daughter was. There were more emails between Mike & I. And when my daughter comes home, she'll be sending me all of her conversations between her & Mike. If they've spent the money on an item such as she did, she shouldn't be sent something that has basically become a money pit. And as for which snake was chosen? I had absolutely no clue about the kinking in the image, nor the fact that we would be sent a kinked snake.

Mike sent my daughter an email this AM or Last night, I'm unsure of which. But from what I gather, flat refusing to send the label to return the Pastave with the Kink. Only a check for the price of the Pastave. Not shipping that was paid. So we're out the price of shipping. We're stuck with a kinked Pastave. Thanks Mike... You really aren't that great of a business man IMHO are you? Because you were told that we could get heat packs to ship the pastave back. Whatever, I sure hope you did send a check that is a good check to Cheyenne.

~Tina Abrahamson

 

[BeauBoi]

Ok guys, There is a lot that is missing in all of this story as well.

My daughter HAS tried to converse with Mike in regards to returning this kinked snake to Mike. Mike had informed her that a label would be sent to her, that the snake could be donated to local schools or what have you. That Mike could send her a different Pastave without a kink. Originally this is what my daughter had wanted.

Mike then insisted that my daughter had to remind him to send her a label so that she would be able to get her snake. Who does business this way? Seriously?! My daughter tried to keep contacting Mike to send a label to her to return this Pastave with several kinks, but met with rudeness and continual behaviour that left her in tears, she did cave and decide to keep this kinked pastave because by then she'd become attached to it. It doesn't take all that long for people to cave to being treated like they just don't matter. Which is what happened with my daughter.

I finally stepped in because I fully believe that if you're going to run a business, you shouldn't ever treat a customer in the manner my daughter was. There were more emails between Mike & I. And when my daughter comes home, she'll be sending me all of her conversations between her & Mike. If they've spent the money on an item such as she did, she shouldn't be sent something that has basically become a money pit. And as for which snake was chosen? I had absolutely no clue about the kinking in the image, nor the fact that we would be sent a kinked snake.

Mike sent my daughter an email this AM or Last night, I'm unsure of which. But from what I gather, flat refusing to send the label to return the Pastave with the Kink. Only a check for the price of the Pastave. Not shipping that was paid. So we're out the price of shipping. We're stuck with a kinked Pastave. Thanks Mike... You really aren't that great of a business man IMHO are you? Because you were told that we could get heat packs to ship the pastave back. Whatever, I sure hope you did send a check that is a good check to Cheyenne.

~Tina Abrahamson

I am sorry that you guys still haven't been able to come to an amicable agreement.
Please post the original email conversation, so we can see what you are describing as having been left out, and any other subsequent communications that followed.
~Beau

 

[juliasara]

Ok guys, There is a lot that is missing in all of this story as well.

My daughter HAS tried to converse with Mike in regards to returning this kinked snake to Mike. Mike had informed her that a label would be sent to her, that the snake could be donated to local schools or what have you. That Mike could send her a different Pastave without a kink. Originally this is what my daughter had wanted.

Mike then insisted that my daughter had to remind him to send her a label so that she would be able to get her snake. Who does business this way? Seriously?! My daughter tried to keep contacting Mike to send a label to her to return this Pastave with several kinks, but met with rudeness and continual behaviour that left her in tears, she did cave and decide to keep this kinked pastave because by then she'd become attached to it. It doesn't take all that long for people to cave to being treated like they just don't matter. Which is what happened with my daughter.

I finally stepped in because I fully believe that if you're going to run a business, you shouldn't ever treat a customer in the manner my daughter was. There were more emails between Mike & I. And when my daughter comes home, she'll be sending me all of her conversations between her & Mike. If they've spent the money on an item such as she did, she shouldn't be sent something that has basically become a money pit. And as for which snake was chosen? I had absolutely no clue about the kinking in the image, nor the fact that we would be sent a kinked snake.

Mike sent my daughter an email this AM or Last night, I'm unsure of which. But from what I gather, flat refusing to send the label to return the Pastave with the Kink. Only a check for the price of the Pastave. Not shipping that was paid. So we're out the price of shipping. We're stuck with a kinked Pastave. Thanks Mike... You really aren't that great of a business man IMHO are you? Because you were told that we could get heat packs to ship the pastave back. Whatever, I sure hope you did send a check that is a good check to Cheyenne.

~Tina Abrahamson

In what way has the snake become a "money pit"? Also if your daughter is keeping the snake I believe it's very fair that he refunds the cost of the snake and not the shipping, if she were to return the snake then I believe he should refund both the shipping and the cost of the snake.

 

[Lucille]

Ok guys, There is a lot that is missing in all of this story as well.

My daughter HAS tried to converse with Mike in regards to returning this kinked snake to Mike. Mike had informed her that a label would be sent to her, that the snake could be donated to local schools or what have you. That Mike could send her a different Pastave without a kink. Originally this is what my daughter had wanted.

Mike then insisted that my daughter had to remind him to send her a label so that she would be able to get her snake. Who does business this way? Seriously?! My daughter tried to keep contacting Mike to send a label to her to return this Pastave with several kinks, but met with rudeness and continual behaviour that left her in tears, she did cave and decide to keep this kinked pastave because by then she'd become attached to it. It doesn't take all that long for people to cave to being treated like they just don't matter. Which is what happened with my daughter.

I finally stepped in because I fully believe that if you're going to run a business, you shouldn't ever treat a customer in the manner my daughter was. There were more emails between Mike & I. And when my daughter comes home, she'll be sending me all of her conversations between her & Mike. If they've spent the money on an item such as she did, she shouldn't be sent something that has basically become a money pit. And as for which snake was chosen? I had absolutely no clue about the kinking in the image, nor the fact that we would be sent a kinked snake.

Mike sent my daughter an email this AM or Last night, I'm unsure of which. But from what I gather, flat refusing to send the label to return the Pastave with the Kink. Only a check for the price of the Pastave. Not shipping that was paid. So we're out the price of shipping. We're stuck with a kinked Pastave. Thanks Mike... You really aren't that great of a business man IMHO are you? Because you were told that we could get heat packs to ship the pastave back. Whatever, I sure hope you did send a check that is a good check to Cheyenne.

~Tina Abrahamson

Cheyenne Dyer (her daughter?) who is over 18 ordered the snake off our website in OCTOBER 2015. We shipped it and she said it looked like it had a kink. We did not notice any kink, even when photographing, hence why we even offered it for sale. The snake was very dificult to photograph as it was balled up all the time and shy. She sent us a set of photos which still showed no visible kink to us. She then sent a good photo showing a kink from the top while hanging the snake from its tail.
This was when she ordered in OCTOBER 2015.
Cheyenne(not TINA) said she wanted it for breeding, but since it has a kink and its " genetic" but since she likes it she would take a discount on it to keep it as a pet. We agreed, but were leaving shop at that moment and just finishing up emails, and asked her to remind us in morning to send her a discount if she didn't hear from us. We had set it in our mind anyways to just refund the snake as it found a pet home except for shipping. Now come LAST WEEK , her mom(Tina) starts sending us threats about BBB, about returning snake and making it worth her while, how they cant breed it anymore and wanted to breed it, etc, etc. or she would post everywhere our business and how we purposefully send a kinked snake, and trying to rip people off by offering same snake on site (its a stock photo which is clearly stated on website), etc.
We explained to her, her DAUGHTER who is an adult has to contact us directly, as emails were from different people, and daughter being adult we deal with the customer not a third party, and Cheyenne Did message us a couple days ago.
We said we would gladly take the snake back when its safe to ship, and if she had REPTILE heat packs to ship it back, she did not and said she had to purchase one.
Still waiting to hear about if she has a heat pack to safely ship back, as she did say she had the box we shipped to her in.
Shipping from SOUTH DAKOTA right now is not very feasible, and fedex return labels have expiration dates. Once she has a heat pack that is suitable for live animal shipping we will gladly have it shipped back by sending her a new return label that is valid. Also when weather is actually safe for an inexperienced person to ship a snake. We actually still hold our offer of refund minus shipping, and keep the snake if CHEYENNE WANTS. We will not be replacing it, just refunding minus shipping at this point.
She implied we did this on purpose, which is not true, and that we are avoiding her, which is not true. We had contact with the true customer at the beggining, and being as busy as we are, it slipped through the cracks as we are not 100% perfect. We would have fixed the issue that week she got it, and intended to but as UNINTENTIONAL accidents happen, we let it slip, and customer as well did not contact us again for 3 months.
So all in all,
We will gladly take the snake back if it can be shipped in a safe manner.
We will refund the snake, and not replace it.
We will communicate and help only the customer, not Tina.
We will do our best to make sure it doesn't happen again as we have a reputation for quality, and only plan on expanding that.

Please post any further emails, because it seems that Michael's post is reasonable, especially if he send's a check for the snake and lets your daughter keep the snake.

 

[Lucille]

I finally stepped in

Just an observation, from one parent to another: I think at 18 (is that her age?) your daughter has the ability fend for herself, and just in my own opinion it might be better to act as an adviser rather than step in and fight her issues for her (especially seeing as how Michael is being pretty reasonable about the whole thing, in my opinion).
Our chicks can only learn to fly if we let them exercise their wings.

 

[Snakesatsunset]

WE ALREADY RESOLVED THIS with Cheyenne earlier this morning. She is keeping the snake and is accepting 100% refund for snake instead of the 50% she originally ASKED FOR as shown in emails between Cheyenne and I, earlier.
As anyone can see, Cheyennes emails in October stated she wanted 50% discount....we asked for snake back, she said she liked it and would keep it for a 50% discount. We agreed, but forgot to process the discount.
So now since its been 3 months we cannot process direct to her card, so we are sending her a refund check for cost of snake. She said she is going to keep it because she likes it, and will give it a good home.
Also as stated earlier, this transaction has nothing to do with Tina, but with Cheyenne.

 

[juliasara]

WE ALREADY RESOLVED THIS with Cheyenne earlier this morning. She is keeping the snake and is accepting 100% refund for snake instead of the 50% she originally ASKED FOR as shown in emails between Cheyenne and I, earlier.
As anyone can see, Cheyennes emails in October stated she wanted 50% discount....we asked for snake back, she said she liked it and would keep it for a 50% discount. We agreed, but forgot to process the discount.
So now since its been 3 months we cannot process direct to her card, so we are sending her a refund check for cost of snake. She said she is going to keep it because she likes it, and will give it a good home.
Also as stated earlier, this transaction has nothing to do with Tina, but with Cheyenne.

Can you please post the emails between you and Cheyenne from this morning. I think it would be good for all of us to see exactly what Cheyenne and you discussed.

 

[Snakesatsunset]

start from bottom:

I really like him and I don't plan on giving him away or anything. He's got really nice markings on him. Thank you for helping me out.

On Jan 26, 2016 6:49 AM, "MikeB" <[email protected]> wrote:
no worries. we want to have this settled as we forgot about it, but willing to let you keep him for full refund of snake cost. not put him through shipping again, and just let him be in a safe home.


From: "Cheyenne Dyer" <[email protected]>
To: "MikeB" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 8:42:58 AM
Subject: Re: Pastave

I'm sorry I was a bit groggy waking up, I didn't mean to be rude. Plus my mother stressing me out about it. She says she can't breed him but I've asked other breeders about it and they said it was just from incubation. I will be talking with her about it, thank you. Sorry again for being rude!

On Jan 26, 2016 6:38 AM, "MikeB" <[email protected]> wrote:
you need to read better...I said i would refund it and you can keep it. due to the time limit our processor cannot refund direct to your credit card, so we have to send you a check for the refund of the cost of snake. You have not been waiting, as you asked for a discount not a return label, the retunr label is something WE OFFERED immediately upon hearing it had a kink. I did the search int he emails, you said 50% discount, not return. Please do a search and read the emails. I said to remind us to refund you the discount, but you never did, which is fine and not your duty, but we forgot....3 months later you cannot change it now sorry. So instead of DISCOUNTyou wanted, we are just refunding the cost of the snake entirely. also you do know its normal this time of year for ball pythons to not eat? You also mentioned it was eating in the same emails I asked you to look up. So - just like you requested we can give you a discount of 50% like you ASKED, but instead we recomend a full refund of cost of snake and you can keep it. Your choice. We will not send a replacement, only a refund.
From: "Cheyenne Dyer" <[email protected]>
To: "MikeB" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 8:04:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pastave

Since October I've been waiting for you to send a return label for the snake now you don't want to? How about the full price because the snakes not eating and I have to deal with this!

On Jan 26, 2016 6:01 AM, "Cheyenne Dyer" <[email protected]> wrote:
It's your fault it's over the time lmit. I wanted a different snake. You know you're a real jerk.

On Jan 26, 2016 5:38 AM, "MikeB" <[email protected]> wrote:
You agreed to a discount, but never responding to our question on what did you have in mind regarding % of discount so we rather just refund cost of snake minus shipping.
We do not need snake back, you can keep it, donate it, give it away to someone who can care for it properly, etc.
We cannot process refund due to processor saying" The payment couldn't be refunded. You are over the time limit to perform a refund on this transaction." so we will send you a refund check in the mail. You should get it in about 7-10 days.

 

[Pasodama]

I am glad to see there is an agreement on resolution.
Mike, just don't forget to send out the check.

....

 

[MeruJack]

I just got a rare pair of WC chameleons from them last week.

 

[CeltGunn]

I am waiting for my daughter to send me the conversations between Mike and Cheyenne. I do agree that since she is over 18 she should have dealt with this herself. She did try, Mike didn't send her a label like he said he would do, guys. When Cheyenne tried asking for one to be sent, she was told she needed to remind Mike to send her a label. Mike has these emails, I know he does. He just hasn't shared them with y'all.

So, Now I've got to get my daughter to forward all the emails between her and Mike, so I can show the conversation between them. Mike hasn't been exactly honest in his dealings with us. Even if he supposedly has sent a check. I do know that Mike told me the whole clutch was kinked, yet he told my daughter only hers was the kinked one. He said he'd send the label, yet he hasn't.

As for my own emails I said I could go purchase animal heat packs, yet Mike seems to think we're refusing to send back the animal. If this had been dealt with much, much sooner like we'd requested, Mike would have donated the animal to a local school like he'd said he was going to. Unlike sticking us with an animal that is kinked(the whole clutch was according to him) That we most assuredly aren't going to be breeding with. That I now have to feed weekly.(Beaux that's where the money pit comes in)

Just as a reminder, My daughter DID ask for a return label but Mike didn't send one. Mike wanted my daughter to remind Mike to do his Job and remind him the next day, to send the LABEL to her. Yet even when she did keep trying to remind him... No Label was sent. That is why we sit in this position and why My daughter caved, accepting the 50% discount in tears, because by the time she finally caved, she'd become attached to the snake.

Those of you with young teens know this doesn't take all that long. Especially with new animals. smh Sitting here watching my daughter break down in tears, because of the treatment she got truly was disheartening.

After a certain amount of time, And purchasing another ball python... Speaking to them about it, they suggested I come here and post about it. So, Here I am. My reason posting here is to let others know of our experience with this business. That is our right to do so, that IS what this forum is for. And if Mike wants to be totally honest about things, He'll actually post all of the emails between Cheyenne and himself.
Because he knows just exactly how he treated her.

~Tina Abrahamson

 

[juliasara]

Why can't she post the emails herself here?