sidewinder107
New member
I really can not believe some of the responses I am getting in here. Am I the only one thinking about the animal here? I never once made any demands I offered suggestions I would be satisfied with.
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Info LLLReptile should be closed down (BuyerBeware)
- Thread starter sidewinder107
- Start date
Big Borg Reptiles
New member
Literally no one has said you're silly and crazy except you. We're all saying that we understand but are trying to lend you our advice from experience. Do with it what you will, you can ignore it or take it into consideration in your dealings.
Big Borg Reptiles
New member
The one adjective that I will assign to you right now is unreasonable. You need to calm down and reassess the situation in my opinion.
Sara27
New member
Yes, you are. It sucks, but for a business like LLLReptile, or any live reptile business to be profitable, they have to consider the reptiles they sell as products. They may care about them and try very hard to make sure everything goes as it should, but it's impossible for them to pay medical care for the plethora of things that can go wrong once they ship them out. If any live reptile business did that, they'd be out of business in less than a year.
Offering to send you medications, and to talk you through how to treat was more than most would do, believe me.
Absolutely none of the major suppliers, and none of the small breeders I know would be willing to pay vet bills for the new owner. They offer to exchange, or refund/credit. That's how this business works.
sidewinder107
New member
I was referring to sara27 post on the first page. And well I have never been treated like this from any breeder and business. Of course most any breeder would make it right and send me another animal if something happened. But then again I don't know any breeders I would buy from that would send me a snake with mouth rot either.
sidewinder107
New member
So your saying it's ok for them to send me a animal with mouth rot and mites and its not there problem its mine????
Sara27
New member
I do think it's silly to ask for a business to write you an open ended check for vet care. Maybe inexperienced is a better word.
You're actually being treated really well, you're just not getting what you want.
I understand why you want what you want, but it is unreasonable to ask for. They have already gone above and beyond what most breeders/sellers would have. You are getting to keep the snake AND getting refunded the full amount + shipping in the form of a store credit AND they offered to send you medicine. If anything, I think this story makes it more likely that I will purchase from them in the future.
You say that you have never been treated that badly, but also say you've never been sent an animal with any issues. I promise you, had you had the misfortune of being sent an animal with issues from any other breeder, your experience would not have been better.
I'm sorry if I'm being blunt, but it irks me to see a business really bending over backwards to please you, short of writing you a blank check, and you've still got the gumption to bash them and say you've never been treated worse.
Sara27
New member
Of course it's not okay. If it were okay, they wouldn't be issuing you a refund credit. They offered to take the snake back so you wouldn't be stuck treating it, but you didn't want to do that, so YES it's now your problem.
What I don't get is you told them you'd be happy if they sent you another snake that was healthy. They gave you FULL credit including shipping. What is the difference between them just shipping one out, versus you using your credit and getting it? It is free either way!
sidewinder107
New member
Wow yes this business should be shut down. So your saying it would be ok for them to send you a snake with mouth rot and mites??? I never once bashed anyone in here but you for calling me silly and crazy. I only asked what everyone would do in this situation. But a few is telling me I am mad and being unreasonable. I got over mad long ago.
The store credit offer did not include the shipping cost, just the price of the snake. OP was offered a full refund if he shipped the snake back with LLL providing a shipping label for the return.
sidewinder107
New member
Would you send a sick animal back??????????????????????????????????? and risk it dying for the sake of the animal. If so please just stop talking to me now. Thank you
Sara27
New member
Nobody is saying it's okay!!
They should not have sent you a sick snake.
That's bad business practice.
If your main complaint was to say they sent you a sick snake, I never would have replied to this post. In fact, this is the first post I've ever replied to despite lurking for a very long time.
But your complaint is that they will not pay your vet care.
NO BREEDER OR BUSINESS WILL PAY YOUR VET CARE.
None. Not a single one. Ask any breeder you can find, "if something is wrong with my animal, can I take it to the vet and you'll pay for whatever treatment and medicine it needs to get completely healthy?"
The answer will always be, "no, but I will exchange or refund the animal" or "a credit will be given if the problem is there upon receiving the shipment".
You're not unreasonable, silly, or crazy to be upset that you were went a sick animal. That's 1000000% normal to feel that way.
You're silly to think a business is going to write you a blank check for vet care. That's the only area that you're unreasonable about.
Sara27
New member
In the recent email from them it says, "We offered the credit of $199.99 as we thought that was one of the options
that you were looking for when you asked for a refund for the price of the
snake. We do not usually credit or refund shipping in any circumstance as
shipping is not in our control, but we definitely understand this is a rare
situation and would be more than happy to add this to the credit if you would
like. "
After that, they say that he/she can send the snake back if he/she would like to, since he/she complained about having to treat the snake, and that they would pay for the shipping and issue a full refund.
I took this to mean that they are willing to credit the full snake + shipping either way, but if the OP wants to send the snake back, they will also pay return shipping in addition to that.
LLLReptile
New member
Always love when someone titles a thread for any breeder or company like this based on their one personal experience. Everyone is welcome to their opinions, but jeez - tone it down a notch! It's ridiculous to take it that far regardless of the situation.
I haven't dealt with this specific situation, so I am only answering in general here as Curtis or Kate at our warehouse would have been helping this person out. Bottom line is, we thoroughly go over animals when we ship. As much as humanly possible. We ship a large amount of animals out each week, and for the rare cases like this that arise, we are talking a 99.9% rate of happy customers. We do deal with live animals, and mistakes can certainly happen sometimes, no matter how thorough we are. On this captive bred boa, is it possible something was missed? Sure - we are human, and anything is possible no matter how many safety nets we have in place. Is it possible it happened elsewhere? Sure, but let's just assume for this conversation that it was missed on our end so there is no argument there. I firmly believe the emails show that we have gone above and beyond offering to take care of the situation. I am not a big fan of *most vets. Not all, but most. Some vets are unbelievably amazing for reptiles. But honestly, 98% of vets don't see enough reptiles in a given year to gain enough hands on experience needed to properly diagnose and treat anything more than outward abrasions. I have been doing this for 20 years, and any serious breeder or dealer who has done this for long enough knows this is a fact. When you find a great reptile vet (we are lucky to have several in our area), stick with them. With that being said, when there are issues that arise, we would prefer the animal come back to us so we can take care of it. We have proper medications on hand, and the experience and know-how to deal with most anything that comes up. Beyond that, if you are going to take it on yourself, then there is literally nothing more we can offer than the full credit. I think what was offered was above and beyond fair. I am very sorry for your issues. Truly. We, and I personally, care an enormous amount about the animals. They are our passion. They got us into this business, and every one of our 40+ employees love what they do, and are here for the animals. If something was missed, we really do try to provide the best possible customer service when issues arise. But unlike a broken television that can simply be replaced, animals with an issue cause a passionate response that can be tough to overcome. I respect that, but certainly ask that you take a look at it from a different perspective. Curtis, the rest of our staff and myself take this seriously, and really do our best.
Lastly. To the Beaked Snake individual. I realize (and realized when you initially had your issues), that your situation will never be resolved. Rufous Beaked Snakes are pretty easy for imports (even though we do post that imported warning someone else copied and pasted to point that out to you that there is a risk). They feed well, do well, and you went 0 for 3. That does suck. It sucks for you, and sucks for us that we replaced animals with ones that clearly were doing great here, but apparently for whatever reason, didn't for you. I would move on to if I were you and not order a single thing from us. We did everything within our realm to try to rectify the situation, as you know, and unfortunately, for whatever reason, it simply didn't work out and nothing we were going to do was going to turn your attitude around. I really do wish you luck elsewhere.
Our offer for credit to the OP here absolutely stands, and I hope we speak with you on the phone tomorrow to get a more personal conversation established. Email is just really impersonal. Thanks for your time.
Scott Wesley
LLLReptile & Supply
I haven't dealt with this specific situation, so I am only answering in general here as Curtis or Kate at our warehouse would have been helping this person out. Bottom line is, we thoroughly go over animals when we ship. As much as humanly possible. We ship a large amount of animals out each week, and for the rare cases like this that arise, we are talking a 99.9% rate of happy customers. We do deal with live animals, and mistakes can certainly happen sometimes, no matter how thorough we are. On this captive bred boa, is it possible something was missed? Sure - we are human, and anything is possible no matter how many safety nets we have in place. Is it possible it happened elsewhere? Sure, but let's just assume for this conversation that it was missed on our end so there is no argument there. I firmly believe the emails show that we have gone above and beyond offering to take care of the situation. I am not a big fan of *most vets. Not all, but most. Some vets are unbelievably amazing for reptiles. But honestly, 98% of vets don't see enough reptiles in a given year to gain enough hands on experience needed to properly diagnose and treat anything more than outward abrasions. I have been doing this for 20 years, and any serious breeder or dealer who has done this for long enough knows this is a fact. When you find a great reptile vet (we are lucky to have several in our area), stick with them. With that being said, when there are issues that arise, we would prefer the animal come back to us so we can take care of it. We have proper medications on hand, and the experience and know-how to deal with most anything that comes up. Beyond that, if you are going to take it on yourself, then there is literally nothing more we can offer than the full credit. I think what was offered was above and beyond fair. I am very sorry for your issues. Truly. We, and I personally, care an enormous amount about the animals. They are our passion. They got us into this business, and every one of our 40+ employees love what they do, and are here for the animals. If something was missed, we really do try to provide the best possible customer service when issues arise. But unlike a broken television that can simply be replaced, animals with an issue cause a passionate response that can be tough to overcome. I respect that, but certainly ask that you take a look at it from a different perspective. Curtis, the rest of our staff and myself take this seriously, and really do our best.
Lastly. To the Beaked Snake individual. I realize (and realized when you initially had your issues), that your situation will never be resolved. Rufous Beaked Snakes are pretty easy for imports (even though we do post that imported warning someone else copied and pasted to point that out to you that there is a risk). They feed well, do well, and you went 0 for 3. That does suck. It sucks for you, and sucks for us that we replaced animals with ones that clearly were doing great here, but apparently for whatever reason, didn't for you. I would move on to if I were you and not order a single thing from us. We did everything within our realm to try to rectify the situation, as you know, and unfortunately, for whatever reason, it simply didn't work out and nothing we were going to do was going to turn your attitude around. I really do wish you luck elsewhere.
Our offer for credit to the OP here absolutely stands, and I hope we speak with you on the phone tomorrow to get a more personal conversation established. Email is just really impersonal. Thanks for your time.
Scott Wesley
LLLReptile & Supply
tlmoon
New member
I am not defending sending a sick animal. That is unfortunate and upsetting. HOWEVER, bad stuff happens. The seller has offered you ways to make this right but you are set on getting your way only. You have a right to be upset, but you are not being reasonable here. The seller has been very polite and is trying to work with you, while you are being very emotional and not willing to accept a reasonable attempt to resolve the situation.
If you read the BOI much, you will have seen the common saying that it's how things are handled when there is a problem that is important. (As opposed to how we act when everything goes well)
The thing is, that goes both ways. Bad things will happen, despite no one having an intent for them to happen. You have a seller who is trying to make this right, and a lot of people telling you your expectations are unreasonable. Maybe it's time to listen instead of arguing the same point over and over.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you read the BOI much, you will have seen the common saying that it's how things are handled when there is a problem that is important. (As opposed to how we act when everything goes well)
The thing is, that goes both ways. Bad things will happen, despite no one having an intent for them to happen. You have a seller who is trying to make this right, and a lot of people telling you your expectations are unreasonable. Maybe it's time to listen instead of arguing the same point over and over.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sidewinder107
New member
Well I am not sure what made you think that I am demanding them to pay vet bills. I am only saying it would be the right thing to do considering the situation at hand. They are wanting me to send the animal back for a full cash refund and I cant and never would ship a sick animal. All they are offering is in store credit. The right thing to do would be to either pay the vet bills or give me my money back that I paid for the snake. Not in store credit. That's what I am saying.
Exactly! I'm very picky about who I deal with when purchasing as I'd rather not purchase a slithering vet bill. Based on experiences people have posted here, LLL has a hit-or-miss reputation with the animals they sell which is why I won't buy critters from them.
Sara27
New member
What made me think that is when you told them that the only way they could make it right would be to pay your vet bill and any vet bill that happened after this one until the snake is healthy.
How is that not a demand, if you're telling them that that is what it would take to make it right, and you're saying all the other things they offer are not good enough?
Yes, I think you're right. Shipping critters coast-to-coast isn't cheap either.
OP you won't get cash back for the snake unless you return him, that's just the way businesses work in most industries, not just reptiles. You understandably don't want to ship a sick snake, so your option is to take the store credit.
sidewinder107
New member
Why was my expectations unreasonable?? I was just wondering what everyone would do in my shoes then some of you went off on me and said I was being unreasonable. How is them giving me my money back unreasonable???? As you can read in the emails I made them that offer first and they only wanted to give me the price for the animal. I also said I would take another guaranteed healthy animal of my choosing in the price range of course. But they did not want to do that either. I Finally got them to offer me in store credit of the price of the animal and shipping. But since I was sent this animal in this condition, they should have gave me my money back in full. Not the in store credit.