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Bad Guy Sellers Beware of John Franco!

That depends on the situation like you said. If I had a TOS similar to hers and believed i represented the animal well then i would likely keep a portion of the money. Probably not the 150 like the OP did but maybe 30-40 like others have stated. And if i had calls looking to buy the gecko during the time the buyer was supposed to be buying the gecko i would have no doubt in my right to some form of payment for lost time and potential buyers.
 
For me, it would have been easier to refund and possibly sell the buyer a different animal.

Speaking with the buyer (who I did not know before this) he wanted a female & when it was disclosed after the second payment was made that it wasn't for sure, he then backed out.

He definitely should have confirmed the sex or probability of sex before sending money. He is not without fault here.

Someone mentioned a 10% restocking fee, that would be the best route in this situation, IMO.


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I'm a believer that a seller needs a TOS to be protected. However, if something is misleading or there was a mistake made, I fully refund even a deposit. If it's my fault, the money goes back. If it's only been a couple days, I refund the deposit even if the buyer backs out. I'm not out anything by doing that.

While the seller did say poss female, I can easily see where a buyer could be confused. As sellers, we need to make sure we explain what poss female really means. Not everyone is as educated on things are we are. I always assume a buyer is a beginner until I know otherwise.

I use terms like temp sex female and unsexed when describing an animal. If it's a temp sex female I will use she, but I either put it in quotes "she" or will put she? . I want to be as clear as possible to a buyer and never want to mislead them. Be transparent and explain things in detail. It saves a lot of headaches down the road. I make sure that someone knows they are buying an animal that is not 100% sexed yet and that there are no guarantees with that. I explain that they are priced lower for that reason. Not everyone will know that.

I can maybe see holding a very small amount, but holding $150 when there were mistakes on both sides doesn't sit right with me at all. I know neither person and I don't breed rhacs, so this is just my opinion as a gecko breeder and buyer.
 
Kristi23 said:
I'm a believer that a seller needs a TOS to be protected. However, if something is misleading or there was a mistake made, I fully refund even a deposit. If it's my fault, the money goes back. If it's only been a couple days, I refund the deposit even if the buyer backs out. I'm not out anything by doing that.

While the seller did say poss female, I can easily see where a buyer could be confused. As sellers, we need to make sure we explain what poss female really means. Not everyone is as educated on things are we are. I always assume a buyer is a beginner until I know otherwise.
Click to expand...
I agree here - reading through the thread, I note there's a huge discrepancy between what responses were here vs. on the facebook page. Yes, the respondants on fb were probably mostly friends, but with that often comes people who are also into the species that person works with - in this case, people very in-tune with what you can reasonably expect at different sizes of chahoua/New Caledonian species.

Someone who has a bit of experience with chahoua will lock into that "poss" and understand 'hey, it's only possible it's a female, of course, at that size.' However, those just coming into the species may not have that same grasp.

Suggestion for the future to cover your own backside - avoid heavy use of "she/he" if you are not offering a sex guarantee. Use "this gecko" if "it" feels impersonal. Write out full, un-ignorable sentences like "I don't see pores right now, so this may be female, but I cannot give you a guarantee at this size" or "Gecko is too small to guarantee sex." This isn't like the old days of newspaper ads where you have to pay per letter to advertise and we don't need to abbreviate in ads. Give your potential buyers as much info up front as you can.
 
BillZ said:
[

"the animal" as in any animal she sells. Does not particularly pertain to this transaction but to any transaction. For me it indicates her neediness to make a sale and her willingness to put "the" animal to "probable" harm and "poss" death to do so.
Click to expand...

I do not see this.
 
Screenshots off John Franco's chat, rules from the site where he first seen the ad. Screenshot (112).png

Screenshot (113).png

Screenshot (114).png
 
BillZ said:
"(unless you insist to ship during extreme weather)" indicates that she would in fact "ship during extreme weather" if the buyer insisted, which has been the demise of many an animal.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there should be no seller capitulation to buyer pressure regarding reduction of the safety measures undertaken when shipping.
 
BillZ said:
So, are you saying that the animal was "Labeled" and/or "marked" incorrectly. Then according to the rules of the site the buyer was shopping on, this animal should have been, and could only have properly been listed as "unsexed".

Interesting.
Click to expand...
Yep, following rules don't apply to her, only her customers.:rolleyes:
 
guruza said:
yeah thats the ad. And you circled poss female right on the second line. Its not hidden behind anything, its not an anagram, its not in code. It is right there for anyone who actually read the ad to see.
Click to expand...

Oh sure, SURE! :)

And the TITLE says "female", it's right there for anyone to see!

And the first line says "girl" and "she", it's right there for everyone to see!

And the second line also says "she", it's right there for anyone to see!

And the fourth line says "her". Twice. It's right there for anyone to see!

But that's totally reasonable to think it wasn't predominantly given the impression of "THIS IS A FEMALE" (I mean possible female).
 
Mister Internet said:
Oh sure, SURE! :)

And the TITLE says "female", it's right there for anyone to see!

And the first line says "girl" and "she", it's right there for everyone to see!

And the second line also says "she", it's right there for anyone to see!

And the fourth line says "her". Twice. It's right there for anyone to see!

But that's totally reasonable to think it wasn't predominantly given the impression of "THIS IS A FEMALE" (I mean possible female).
Click to expand...

Not to mention, as is plain to see in the screenshots posted on page 1, John Franco (upon initial inquiry) stated he was interested in the female and the seller never corrected John. Instead, the seller goes on to further cement the idea/suggestion, that the gecko is indeed female, by stating "Okay great! She's had lots of interested [sic] but is currently still available".
Also, in further communication, the seller, continuously, referred to the gecko as she.
Plus, to beat all, the seller even stated "I imported the female when she was a baby.

Mind you, all of this (above) was *Before* receiving deposit/payment. With the seller never stating/correcting/suggesting that the gecko was only *possible* female.
It wasn't until *after* deposit/payment, where John thought to truly confirm that the gecko was 100% definite female via direct/pointed question, that the seller stated "am almost positive" (no guarantee).

....
 
Pasodama said:
Not to mention, as is plain to see in the screenshots posted on page 1, John Franco (upon initial inquiry) stated he was interested in the female and the seller never corrected John. Instead, the seller goes on to further cement the idea/suggestion, that the gecko is indeed female, by stating "Okay great! She's had lots of interested [sic] but is currently still available".
Also, in further communication, the seller, continuously, referred to the gecko as she.
Plus, to beat all, the seller even stated "I imported the female when she was a baby.

Mind you, all of this (above) was *Before* receiving deposit/payment. With the seller never stating/correcting/suggesting that the gecko was only *possible* female.
It wasn't until *after* deposit/payment, where John thought to truly confirm that the gecko was 100% definite female via direct/pointed question, that the seller stated "am almost positive" (no guarantee).

....
Click to expand...
Screenshot (118).jpg
 
Keeping this guy's money is just so wrong on so many levels, what ever happened to people doing the right thing? Her TOS should be completely moot when an obvious miscommunication was in place, one egged on by her due to the buyer wanting a female. Hopefully she will wake up one morning in the near future and say "I took this guy's money for nothing and I don't feel good about it, I will send it back".
The many times this guy mentioned getting her female she could have come back with .."remember this is a best guess and a hopeful female" which she never did, perpetuating the thought it was a for sure female.
Instead of outing a buyer she did nothing more than out herself as a person that when given the choice of doing the right thing would not. Seems the price for character and ethics is $300 these days, a small amount of money for something so important.
 
It would be interesting to find out what gender the critter was advertised as, if any, when the Gex Files sold it. Plus, I think it would be good for the Big Names in Europe to check out this thread, so I sent The Gex Files a link.
 
Lucille said:
It would be interesting to find out what gender the critter was advertised as, if any, when the Gex Files sold it. Plus, I think it would be good for the Big Names in Europe to check out this thread, so I sent The Gex Files a link.
Click to expand...

I don't really know much about the gecko people and their community, but in my experience with colubrid keepers, specifically rats, most people seem honest and have the best interests of the critters, and their sale, a top priority. Perhaps this is so with gecko folks, and having more gecko people aware of the situation might be enough to levy more pressure toward rectifying the situation in such a way as not to harm the potential buyer.

I know I see the same corn people in multiple places, and HAVE seen the pressure come to bare when a perceives wrong has occurred. I hope that might be the case here, too.
 
Lucille said:
It would be interesting to find out what gender the critter was advertised as, if any, when the Gex Files sold it. Plus, I think it would be good for the Big Names in Europe to check out this thread, so I sent The Gex Files a link.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the email. Although it would be nice if you would have mentioned your name. Since it now took us 26 pages of (long and boring) reading to do to find out ;)

The gecko was sold by us as unsexed, since it was still a hatchling of just a few months old.
We always referred to the gecko as "it" and the "little one".
 
The Gex Files said:
Thanks for the email. Although it would be nice if you would have mentioned your name. Since it now took us 26 pages of (long and boring) reading to do to find out ;)



The gecko was sold by us as unsexed, since it was still a hatchling of just a few months old.

We always referred to the gecko as "it" and the "little one".
Click to expand...


The professional way of advertising a gecko.


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