Info Reptiles By Mack (HORROR VIDEO!!)

[Craig Wyatt]

This video says it all. If there is a better way to post this video please do it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsR-pvUFT3Y

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Hi Craig. This video is being discussed in this existing BOI thread:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539163

 

[Craig Wyatt]

I saw it. But the thing is it's buried on top of another topic. I think this deserves to be more visible.
But I'm not arguing with you because you are right. It is there.

 

[Fangthane]

I think this deserves to be more visible.

I actually agree. Even if we're to assume that some of that video was out of context - e.g., PETA possibly choosing to focus on newly-arrived animals that were severely injured and essentially doomed well before RBM ever had possession of them - there's still some disturbing stuff in that video that just doesn't seem so easily explained away by simple context. Unless there was a whole lot of scene-staging and outright fabrications by PETA - which seems like it may be a good time for a defamation lawsuit from someone who has both the means, and the confidence in their ability to defend their practices in a courtroom - it's looking pretty bad for RBM.

While I'd always made it a point to limit my own collection to a dozen or so, I can still understand how circumstances could easily lead to a big operation having numerous cages not being nearly as clean as they should be. I just think that what's shown in the video seems to pretty clearly display extended neglect that goes above and beyond what I think you'd ever be likely to see in the collection of a business that actually saw their stock as anything more than inanimate dollar sign$.

Maybe I just have unrealistic expectations about the quality of life that should be reasonably expected for the animals of a large-scale wholesale operation; I still think that whoever is actually responsible for much of any of what was shown in that video, is someone who shouldn't be involved in any aspect of the live-animal trade. If the video's truly as grossly misrepresented as their statement seems to be implying, I think it may not be an easy task to prove to the court of public opinion that even an appreciable percentage of that video is really that misrepresented and out of context.

I probably wouldn't have created this thread, but I definitely wouldn't argue against this situation deserving its own venue. Since it's here, we might as well use it.

 

[WebSlave]

Well, since it has been established that it was PETA taking the video at RBM, (certainly without permission and under circumstances of THEIR choosing) and most certainly doing it under the pretext of being hired there to do a job, what job do you think it was that put them in the position to get that video footage? Cleaning animal cages perhaps? Caring for the animals, perhaps? Which do you think had the highest priority on their list of things to do every day? Take care of the animals they were tasked with, or getting the juiciest video they could to further the agenda they were tasked with by PETA?

Quite honestly, I am not convinced that this is any sort of unbiased view at all. I've been to some wholesalers myself, and some were extraordinarily well maintained, and others I wanted to take a half dozen showers after leaving there and burn the clothes I had been wearing. The worst seemed to be importers, in my opinion. The best were ones that bred their own animals for the majority of the stock they offered for sale. But none were, nor ever could be, pristine and spotless by any stretch of the imagination. Animals just do not give you that sort of luxury.

I am sorry, but I am just not buying into anything that PETA tries to convince me of. Not when their obvious agenda means the complete destruction of the entire animal industry. If anyone else wants to buy into that agenda, then have at it. Watch that video and pay attention to the end of it concerning what PETA is promoting. When they get your support to divide and conquer the wholesale aspect of the pet trade do you seriously think that will be the end of their focus? YOU, even with your handful of animals, will be next.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

As indicated above, this is nothing new as a tactical maneuver.... So go ahead, condemn someone else because their standards are not exactly the same as yours with the handful of animals you take care of. Nor can they be.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

I was wondering how many people would be fired over that video. I would imagine everyone's voice that he could recognize.

I stated in the other thread, this is simply how wholesalers operate. I was in a different wholesaler's facility and it's the same thing. The fact is, the huge retail stores offer a certain price for a certain number of animals and that's it. If one person doesn't fill it then another one will. At the prices they're offering, no one provide proper care/food/housing for the animals and still remain profitable.

It's sad but true. I don't think it will change until someone forces them to change. It's just unfortunate that it puts a dark light on the whole reptile industry, even those of us that try very hard to treat our animals right.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Quite honestly, I am not convinced that this is any sort of unbiased view at all. I've been to some wholesalers myself, and some were extraordinarily well maintained, and others I wanted to take a half dozen showers after leaving there and burn the clothes I had been wearing. The worst seemed to be importers, in my opinion. The best were ones that bred their own animals for the majority of the stock they offered for sale. But none were, nor ever could be, pristine and spotless by any stretch of the imagination. Animals just do not give you that sort of luxury.

I am sorry, but I am just not buying into anything that PETA tries to convince me of. Not when their obvious agenda means the complete destruction of the entire animal industry. If anyone else wants to buy into that agenda, then have at it. Watch that video and pay attention to the end of it concerning what PETA is promoting.

This. I've only been to one other wholesaler, but the point of the video was obvious. "If you go to a pet store that sells animals then you are promoting this kind of neglect". Complete BS. I have literally stocked entire pet stores with animals I personally produced and could tell you about in detail. What was shown in the video is far from acceptable, but the message is extremely dangerous and should be concerning to anyone involved with reptiles.

 

[DollysMom]

For the record, I've actually purchased a corn snake directly from RbM. She is beautiful and heathy from purchase until today. I've made very few posts here but one of them was about that experience.

I have watched the video once, so far. It is difficult to watch.

PETA has the agenda to stop all human ownership and use of animals. They have a huge and extreme bias. They are not friends or the reptile community. I could say more but it would be a long rant about PETA, their motives and methods

In closing, I will not jump to negative conclusions about RbM based on this video.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

PETA has the agenda to stop all human ownership and use of animals. They have a huge and extreme bias. They are not friends of the reptile community.

I don't necessarily agree with the rest of what you said, but this is spot on.

 

[Hypancistrus]

Quite honestly, I am not convinced that this is any sort of unbiased view at all. I've been to some wholesalers myself, and some were extraordinarily well maintained, and others I wanted to take a half dozen showers after leaving there and burn the clothes I had been wearing. The worst seemed to be importers, in my opinion. The best were ones that bred their own animals for the majority of the stock they offered for sale. But none were, nor ever could be, pristine and spotless by any stretch of the imagination. Animals just do not give you that sort of luxury.

I am sorry, but I am just not buying into anything that PETA tries to convince me of. Not when their obvious agenda means the complete destruction of the entire animal industry. If anyone else wants to buy into that agenda, then have at it. Watch that video and pay attention to the end of it concerning what PETA is promoting. When they get your support to divide and conquer the wholesale aspect of the pet trade do you seriously think that will be the end of their focus? YOU, even with your handful of animals, will be next.

As always, Rich, well said.

 

[CwnAnnwn]

I agree with Mr. Zuchowski.

PETA has some very dark secrets too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/peta-kills-puppies-kittens_b_2979220.html

I don't trust anything coming from peta.

 

[LauraB]

Thank you, Dan, for that damning PETA link. I have not trusted anything from PETA for years.

 

[Reptiles By Mack]

You may be aware of recent news reports about allegations by PETA against our animal care facilities and practices. I want to assure you that we take very seriously our reputation as a respected and credentialed reptile supplier.
We have found numerous discrepancies in the photos and video and report that much of what you see here is misrepresented or taken out of context.
The PETA allegations reflect care that is absolutely not up to our standards; this type of animal treatment is not how we train our employees and will not be tolerated in any of our facilities.
Our customers look to us for healthy animals that are bred and raised in a safe environment that includes appropriate medical treatment for all of our animals. We train employees to carefully prepare and ship our animals, providing an environment that is appropriate for each breed’s unique lifestyle needs. And, an experienced veterinarian, who specializes in reptile care, visits all of our facilities at least once a week and provides oversight guidance to us.
We expect all employees to follow humane and timely methods to care for our animals. And we discipline or terminate employees who do not fulfill their obligations of care to our animals.
We take seriously these allegations and are conducting a thorough investigation; I personally assure you that any and all policy infractions will be addressed immediately.
Thank you for your trust in Reptiles by Mack. We work every day to earn that trust.
John Mack

 

[jusmebabee]

You may be aware of recent news reports about allegations by PETA against our animal care facilities and practices. I want to assure you that we take very seriously our reputation as a respected and credentialed reptile supplier.
We have found numerous discrepancies in the photos and video and report that much of what you see here is misrepresented or taken out of context.
The PETA allegations reflect care that is absolutely not up to our standards; this type of animal treatment is not how we train our employees and will not be tolerated in any of our facilities.
Our customers look to us for healthy animals that are bred and raised in a safe environment that includes appropriate medical treatment for all of our animals. We train employees to carefully prepare and ship our animals, providing an environment that is appropriate for each breed’s unique lifestyle needs. And, an experienced veterinarian, who specializes in reptile care, visits all of our facilities at least once a week and provides oversight guidance to us.
We expect all employees to follow humane and timely methods to care for our animals. And we discipline or terminate employees who do not fulfill their obligations of care to our animals.
We take seriously these allegations and are conducting a thorough investigation; I personally assure you that any and all policy infractions will be addressed immediately.
Thank you for your trust in Reptiles by Mack. We work every day to earn that trust.
John Mack

I've never bought from you or companies you supply so I have no dog in this.
First thing i didn't hear was a denial. If someone accused me of something I didn't do, I'm saying I didn't do it period.
I don't need to investigate.
All I read in that long post is were trying to figure out how to cover our which most companies would do.
What i read from your long post is we got caught and now were investigating (buying time to figure out an excuse).
Walmart, Apple, and all the others that get caught give the same tired speech.
Yes peta and the humane society are bottom feeders, but don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.
What a day it will be when a company or person comes out and says, we f'd up and we apologize. That's all I need.
Please post when your investigation is over

 

[SPJ]

Sounds like "blame the employee" when in actuality, a manager or owner is 100% responsible for whatever happens.
I also see no denial of the allegations.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

I see Reptiles by Mack is viewing right now. Maybe you can explain better on what's going on. The comment that you made was just a copy and paste. I believe we would all like to hear something new. And something more sincere. Not just a damage control type post.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

If there are legal wheels turning, gushing forth with responses is not necessarily the smartest path for the company.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I highly doubt they will be back to respond because it's not in there best legal interest.
Any type of sincerity or oppologies is going to be further incriminating to this situation.

 

[tlmoon]

Yeah, this kind of situation is going to be in the lawyers' hands - would not be smart to make comments on a message board, even if RBM wanted to.

The video was concerning. However, I wouldn't expect RBM to engage in discussions online yet.

From either perspective: let's say the video is 100% accurate - RBM needs to get their legal ducks in a row and not muddy the issue with things that will complicate decisions they make later.

If it isn't accurate - if they are going to sue PETA for defamation, they don't want to say anything that PETA could use against them in court later.

So either way, I wouldn't expect a big company to do anything but post a statement like the one above. We want more answers, but it may not be realistic to think the company will answer questions here.

 

[snowgyre]

The left the same comment on here as they did on their website, which indicates legal advice. I agree with Nick and Craig's assessment. Asking RBM to comment more or defend themselves is a waste of time at this point. In all honesty, unless a person has visited their facilities and/or worked for them and can comment here, the conjecture really isn't useful until potential legal battles are either publicized or over.