Christina Draper - [email protected]
Christina Davis - [email protected] (used for PayPal)
Dustin/Darrin Draper - (678) 368-9222
southernherper - Augusta, GA - Sand Hill Reptiles
My name is Sarah Williams, I am a member of the BP.net forums, and I responded to an ad posted for a lot of 14 pied yearlings (thread has been deleted by admins). I began contacting the seller, new BP.net member "southernherper" by private messaging on the forum.
Hi SH!
My husband and I are interested in your 14 pied yearling lot - however, since you're a brand new member of the forum and we don't have any information about you, we have a bunch of questions.
Are all of the animals visual Pied? No hets?
How many males, how many females?
Can you provide pictures of each individual animal? Can you provide pictures of their parents?
We assume these are from multiple clutches - are they all related (by Sire) or different bloodlines?
Why are you trying to move 14 animals at below-market price?
Does your lot price of 2000$ include shipping?
Looking forward to hearing back from you!
Sarah Williams
I recieved two messages back:
I appreciate the questions! We re asking below market price due to failing at our project that we were working on. And since failing to produce what we were aiming for, we have no need or space for the animals. Therefore we need them gone.
I can provide pictures. The animals are from old Bob Clark stock.
We do not have the time nor space to deal with 14 pieds when we have other stuff to work on. The are from different females but same sire. The price does not include shipping. Shipping will be an additional $60.00 for fed ex overnight. There is an alive arrival guarantee. Furthermore I do accept refunds of requested within 7 days of purchase on the condition that purchaser pays for the return and animals arrive back to us in the same condition that you received them in.
We continued a dialogue, in which I continued to try and gain clarity and hammer down the deal. Whilst we communicated, I became what my husband likes to call "cyberstalker Sarah" trying to hunt down any information on the seller online. I was unable to locate any information on the store Sand Hill Reptiles in Augusta, GA (location provided by seller on BP.net profile) or locate a facebook presence. I found nothing.
Hi SH,
I am interested and serious about picking up this lot, I just want to be clear on a couple of things. First, my understanding is that these are all visual animals - please confirm. Secondly, the lot total, including shipping, would be 2060$ - please confirm. Finally, I do want pictures of each animal and of the parents, and can you verify the sex ratio of the animals?
Thanks again
Sarah Williams
They are 100% visual. No hets. I do know the sexes of the animals. They are on the female heavy side with 5 males and 9 females. I hope that's not a problem. I'd have to either text or email pictures.
The total amount will be, if purchased $2060.00 US. I will need your local information on temperatures day and night as to have the box prepared for the current temperatures.
Hi SH,
We are in Gilbert, AZ (xxxxx) - next Tuesday's high will be 72 F, that would be an ideal day for delivery. Please email pictures to
[email protected] - this is my personal email address.
The sex ratio is not a problem, I just wanted to confirm what we are looking at. What is the average weight of the animals? This doesn't affect my desire to purchase, again just want to know what we are getting.
Do you accept PayPal for payment?
Also, do you have a website or Facebook page so we can look for animals in the future? I wasn't able to pull up anything under Sand Hill Reptiles, listed on your profile.
Thanks,
Sarah
We do not have a website or anything as we are relatively new and are still in the organizational stage, as I'm sure you can understand. We strive to give first class service in every aspect of our customers experience.
I cannot give you specific weights currently as they have not been recently weighed. I will send you pictures that I have stored on my phone. The mother is the largest one. Let me know when you receive them ��
I recieved an email from Christina Draper <
[email protected]> with 9 attachments - one picture of hatchlings in eggs, one picture of the Dam, and 7 pictures of the same animal in different poses.
I did not think about doing search for the email address, and I assumed that more pictures would be forthcoming - they were not.
Hi SH/Christina,
I got the pictures, they are beautiful little things.

How would you like to be paid? If we can do payment by PayPal, I can send payment tonight - if so, would you be able to send them out on Monday night so my husband can be available to receive them on Tuesday?
Thanks,
Sarah
Will he be available to sign for them? Yes I have PayPal.
Yes, he will be available to sign for them - he will be home all day, so there shouldn't be any problems.
What is your PayPal address, and would you like me to send payment tonight, or nearer to the send-date?
Thanks,
Sarah
Send tonight so that they will be considered sold and off the market.
[email protected]
As long as he will be there to sign all of my worries will be gone.
Alright, payment has been sent!
Dan Williams (<-- husband)
xxxxx
Gilbert, AZ xxxxx
Cell # xxxxx
He works from home so he will definitely be here to receive the delivery.
Please send the shipping label/confirmation to my email when it is printed up and ready to go. If you need anything further from us please let me know! If you have any records (hatch dates, shed/feeding) I would appreciate if they could be sent as well.
Thanks again,
Sarah
There were a couple of pleasantries messages exchanged, and then my husband and I went to bed. My husband recieved a call a few minutes later, from someone he heard as "Darren" - no correction was ever given when my husband used this name on the phone with him, several times. The seller said that he had refunded the payment because a 21 day hold had been placed on it, and asked whether we could re-send it as a gift (NO). He went on to explain that a 2.7% transaction fee had eaten up the cost of the shipping - whether or not the 21 day hold was a real issue, we'll never know, but losing out on aprox 47$ on a 2000$ deal was a no-go for the seller, so the payment was refunded in full. My bank did not update with the refund immediately, so we made plans to be back in touch and try repayment the next day.
I recieved another email, from Christina Davis <
[email protected]>, with an "example picture" of a fire lucy:
This is NOT a picture of our snake. But the one we have is a bonus that I'm going to throw in for you guys since you are just starting out. Everyone needs some help to mae a prized collection. Take very good care of this female. the eyes are black With a red pupil.
This picture is just an example.
Additional messages were exchanged over the BP.net forum private messaging, but the seller preferred contact by phone, so my husband spoke to him multiple times - sometimes also by text. The phone number used by the seller was (678) 368-9222.
My bank account did not update with the refund for 2 days. The seller continued to try and speak to my husband on the phone and by text during this time, but did not message me on the BP.net forums. The first day, my husband eventually determined that the seller was probably legit due to the consistancy of his story about being a member of a burgeoning coalition for veteran christians with families in the herping business - small inconsistancies and curiosities were passed off as "old timer internet wonder". On the second day, my husband messaged me while I was at work, and told me that he'd changed his mind, the seller was sounding awfully scammy, and he had dug up a previous FaunaClassifieds thread with information about the seller consistant with the contact details we had.
We dropped the deal without alerting the seller, and I posted a warning thread on BP.net, to which the seller baulked and stated that:
"That's false information."
"I have the shipping label, snakes and everything ready to ship as we discussed."
"The OP failed to express their concerns to me or my co workers prior to this thread. It's quite sad as we were shipping the animals in question today just as we had discussed. They were ready to ship through FedEx with the tracking number and everything in order.
However my prior employment with a bad business before my split seems to discourage them. This was never brought to my attention as it very well should have been. And the use of PayPal protects us both and is linked to our bank account.
If the OP had concerns, then we are just a phone call away."
During the most recent phone conversation with the seller, my husband had discussed having the seller hold the animals for 21 days if another hold was placed on the payment(s) sent. A second payment attempt had not been made, so there would be no reason for the seller to have the animals ready to ship out and a label for an uppaid shipment ready to go.
This entire ordeal smacks of some of the worst decision making I have ever been a part of, and I am both extremely angry and extremely relieved to have not been taken for 2060$.