Bad Guy Kelly's Chameleons -- Unethical Breeder/Scammer

[Black Adder]

At this stage I feel that posting any "evidence" is somewhat redundant as Kelly has no intention of coming here to say anything at all it would seem.
Maybe wrong and she may do so but currently it looks like she has had the money, now also has the chams(although tbh from the looks of them not worth too much at this stage if they even survive) and obviously is making zero effort to make good or communicate in any way shape or form.
sorry for your loss as that is what this now appears to be...a total loss situation

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

I disagree, Kevin. It would bolster the assertions made and complete the picture. The evidence never hurts and often helps. It was requested early on. We received some evidence in the form of the photo of condition, but the communication stream would also be highly valuable for full corroboration. It can tell both sides of the story without having both sides actively participate. Also, some people simply do not engage in disputes, so non-response is indicative, but not an automatic seal of particular status in the transaction.

 

[kenmare]

Kelly's Chameleons - Unethical Breeder/Scammer

All of the saved texts I have from Kelly are on the little flip phone I use during the day. I will have to figure out how to take screen shots on these texts with a smart phone and post them. We took a screen shot of the text where she promises a refund once she has received the chameleons back. That shot was taken with a smart phone off of my flip phone but only shows the wording and not who it is from. On my flip phone, it definitely says Kelly Chameleons and is dated Saturday, March 12th at 2:54 p.m. So, obviously, that is not conclusive proof until I can get a full shot. I am quite a technological moron so I will have to have a friend walk me through this. The only other pics I took, other than the emaciated female, were of the male because he looked so drastically different than the ad that was posted on Fauna. I took the pic because I wasn't even sure if he was the same chameleon. You can also notice his eye is somewhat "squinty" in the pic where he is on my hand. He would keep one eye closed or squinted the entire week I had him, as did the females. The pic where he is solid red-orange with very faint barring is from the ad here on Fauna that I first saw. After showing the pic of the male as I received him, all of my breeder friends who work with panthers agreed that he is not a pure ambilobe. Probably crossed with ambanja due to the look and coloration of the bars. This is a common theme from other people who have bought panthers from her. According to other breeders who have seen the panthers listed on her website (Rainbows End Chameleons), several males listed are obvious crosses but are advertised as pure ambilobes. For anyone looking to breed panthers, it is vitally important that you are sure of the bloodlines and locale of your breeding stock or the offspring become very difficult to market and other breeders won't be interested in what you have to sell. I'll see what I can do to provide more screen shots of texts from Kelly that will clearly identify her as the sender.

Is there anything else I can do legally to recoup my money from this lady? I have filed a claim with my bank and they are investigating the transaction. The money was withdrawn from my checking count which is linked to Paypal so my bank is looking into it. If that falls through, do I have any recourse or just chalk it up to a lesson hard-learned?

 

[tlmoon]

It sounds like you're doing what you can...it may be hard to get anything back if she just flat out isn't refunding you. There are things like small claims court, but that is often unwieldy if you're in different states/locations. You could check if it's something you could file a police report on, but they may say it's a civil matter.

Sorry you're having such a hassle with her!

 

[Robert Walker]

Paypal me my refund of $344.11

Is there anything else I can do legally to recoup my money from this lady?

This is the point where you decide "how much effort am I willing to invest" to:
a. recoup $344? (months)
or
b. consider the money lost, but wish to make her life suck to the tune of $344? (days)
or
c. drop it all and walk away (no effort)

How much is time worth to you? Either option leaves you with a "lesson learned".

 

[Mistyck]

Unless you did already, imo it's time to get law enforcement involved. Attempt to contact her one more time; letting her know she's has one hour to refund the money or you'll be filing a police report. This is out of Paypal's hands and I doubt she's planning on ever paying you back.

He can try file a police report, but it's likely that the Police Department will tell him that it is a civil matter and to file with the courts. Which will take time, and a whole lot more than he paid for the animals. Then it will be in documentation with the courts about her and her treatment of animals. Still not a guarantee he would win considering that he sent money to her as a "gift" and not as a payment. She would likely use that as a defense and probably win the case. She could also file a counter-suit against him for defamation of character, libel, slander & emotional distress; which would entail him paying for her court fees and for anything else she throws in to try to get the maximum allowed in her state. (That doesn't mean she would win that counter-suit either, but from the way things have been shown about her, she would use everything under the sun to squeeze more blood out of the turnip.)

Is there anything else I can do legally to recoup my money from this lady? I have filed a claim with my bank and they are investigating the transaction. The money was withdrawn from my checking count which is linked to Paypal so my bank is looking into it. If that falls through, do I have any recourse or just chalk it up to a lesson hard-learned?

As for if you can do anything legally; yes, but it will probably wind up costing you more than you lost with the animals. If your bank sides with you, then that will be great, but I don't know if they will. All banks are different, but I know that my Credit Union would see the transaction as a "Gift" and that would be the end of it.

Of course you can (and should) continue to spread the story (not saying it's not true, just using that word as a descriptive word here...) to everyone you know, everywhere you know and hope that she stays out of the animal business.

 

[Mistyck]

I appreciate your comment and stand corrected...what I intended to object to was an attempt to raise her credibility by stating a connection to Chris Anderson. I don't use Farcebook so am not familiar with the ins and outs of "friends".

Just didn't know if you saw something different than I saw on the picture & facebook, so I wanted to see where you were coming from with your comment, to make sure I wasn't missing something.

 

[kenmare]

Kelly's Chameleons - Unethical Breeder/Scammer

Point well taken about how much effort and time it is worth to pursue this any further. It is clear that Kelly is not going to respond to any of this nor is she going to do the right thing. I just saw a thread on a Facebook site devoted to identifying all of the various panther locales and Kelly's name came up on that from breeders who had purchased obvious crosses from her when they thought they were receiving pure ambilobes. There were also posts describing panthers that had MBD that were purchased from her. I have encouraged those people to post on this thread with their stories. Hopefully, some will come forward.

I am assuming that Kelly will reemerge at some point and resume selling chameleons to the unsuspecting public. One of the main reasons she told me she was moving was to have more space to breed her chameleons. That is a horrifying thought!! I am sure she is just waiting for this to blow over and then will advertise again either on this forum or elsewhere. This story and others have been shared on all of the major chameleon Facebook sites so I doubt she will have any success there. My guess is that she will change the name of her business or sell through a third party. After hearing all of the accounts now from other parties who have gone through similar deceptive transactions with her, I am just amazed that she is still business.

 

[Robert Walker]

b. consider the money lost, but wish to make her life suck to the tune of $344? (days)

This story and others have been shared on all of the major chameleon Facebook sites so I doubt she will have any success there...

The more people that know of this, the more places it is posted, the more her business "friends" on Facebook are aware (someone messages them) = less and less business opportunities to her.

At some point she will realize $344 was too high a price to pay for all the future business losses she is experiencing. Again, back to the worth of your personal time vs. $344. Good luck with thing!

 

[dajuice]

What she did amounts to theft. You should be able to file charges against her using those text' s as evidence

 

[Mistyck]

What she did amounts to theft. You should be able to file charges against her using those text' s as evidence

It's not technically theft, because he did not pay for goods or services. He sent her a "gift" of the money and she just happened to send him animals. He returned the animals to her because he was dis-satisfied, and she said she would pay him back, but she doesn't "have" to pay him back since he gave her a "gift" of money.

So the police will likely tell him that it is a civil manner and to take it up with the courts.

 

[dajuice]

It's not technically theft, because he did not pay for goods or services. He sent her a "gift" of the money and she just happened to send him animals. He returned the animals to her because he was dis-satisfied, and she said she would pay him back, but she doesn't "have" to pay him back since he gave her a "gift" of money.

So the police will likely tell him that it is a civil manner and to take it up with the courts.

That makes sense... Sad to see people can be so grimy