Inquiry Steven Brenner Transaction

[calebroad]

Your combining the current situation, of which both parties have acknowledged, with a nasty bout with Nick, some time ago, with whom I have never done a transaction with, is exactly my claim.

That Fauna holds that somebody who had a nasty bout with a moderator, shall be cheated upon, is what I am claiming. If that is the policy and standards of Fauna, I cannot change Faunas business practices, ethics, or standards. I don't have that authority

As far as Steven Brenner and I am concerned, I don't really see anything to prove. He says he will eventually make it right, I don't think he will. But if he does, I will immediately update the post

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Your combining the current situation, of which both parties have acknowledged, with a nasty bout with Nick, some time ago, with whom I have never done a transaction with, is exactly my claim.

That Fauna holds that somebody who had a nasty bout with a moderator, shall be cheated upon, is what I am claiming. If that is the policy and standards of Fauna, I cannot change Faunas business practices, ethics, or standards. I don't have that authority

As far as Steven Brenner and I am concerned, I don't really see anything to prove. He says he will eventually make it right, I don't think he will. But if he does, I will immediately update the post

That claim you are making is not the site's policy, obviously.

 

[Fangthane]

That Fauna holds that somebody who had a nasty bout with a moderator, shall be cheated upon, is what I am claiming. If that is the policy and standards of Fauna, I cannot change Faunas business practices, ethics, or standards. I don't have that authority

That's not even close to what's happening here; you're clearly not comprehending what's being said. Anyone who wants their claims to be taken seriously should muster the good sense to provide corroborating evidence - especially when one's past activities on this site may cast them in an unfavorable light. The past doesn't necessarily dictate the future, but it can be very easy for people to have trouble looking beyond it, all the same.

As far as Steven Brenner and I am concerned, I don't really see anything to prove. He says he will eventually make it right, I don't think he will. But if he does, I will immediately update the post

Guess I'll just never understand the rationale of those who'd come here without any apparent interest in presenting evidence that amounts to a kill-shot. If you're going to half-ass it, why bother at all?

 

[calebroad]

Steven resonded to this post, I don't attest to what he is saying. He says he will agree to make it right.

I'm not interested in attacking him. I stated my claim, he stated his. When two parties acknowledge the situation, I can't feel compelled to keep on and on and on.

I posted my inquiry, He is not denying it. Are you wanting a dog fight? If he makes it right, I will update post? I'm not going to attach him, it is what it is. The situation is acknowledged.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Not siding, or playing devil's advocate here. Just an observation from someone on the outside looking in. I see nothing wrong with the OPs post. I would be hounding him for proof myself had Stephen denied anything, which he hasn't. If anything, I find it suspicious that Stephen's post are "matter of factly" short and avoiding of dialogue. Whatever the seemingly confrontational past he's had here and is being called out to answer for, I find his posts to be civil where many would not. I haven't seen anything here to illegitimize his claim. Just sayin'.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Referring to the OP's past.

 

[Fangthane]

In general, pattern recognition comes into play. Read enough BOI and you'll likely notice that those who refuse to corroborate their stories often tend to have a nefarious reason for doing so - which would also apply a party who chimes in with terse replies that also lack backing evidence. More specifically, the OP has a bit of a history of overreaction, playing the "bully" card and grasping at flimsy justifications for his actions. He also accused Nick of abusing his position to get better deals on animals - which was found to have no basis in reality:

I have some concerns over some claims made to Rich (WebSlave).

Things like...

I have a complaint about a moderator abusing his position for better deals, and using his moderator position for priviledge and the ability to grab good tortoise deals.

All in all, civil or not, there are valid reasons for wanting proof. Like claims made by anyone, I see the simple lack of proof as inherently calling legitimacy into question. Add in his past tendencies, and I think proof becomes even more of an imperative. While the other party may not have explicitly denied what he's saying, at the very least, he seems to be implying that the OP's motives aren't so pure. It seems that some of us would like to see how both parties really conducted themselves and what was actually said.

 

[Black Adder]

Guess I may say something further...lol
Just seems very odd that the op would create a BOI thread and then either NOT have the proof to back up his claims or be willing to provide said proof, whichever the case may be.
As eloquently said by others already, combine that with his somewhat checkered past here and it is understandable that the masses will not just accept his word for the turn of events portrayed.

 

[calebroad]

I fully realize I shouldn't say anything else, I should keep my fingers crossed that I recover the $4k. - and just be quiet. However, I'm not good at just biting my tongue.

Some people on here are referring to my "checkered past", or my faulty record, or my bad rap, or my being the devil, or the monster of the universe.

It should be said, that I had one nasty bout with a moderator, with whom I have never done a transaction with. In all fairness, I was not familiar with the BOI, in my defense, I felt like I was lured, since Nick spoke according to what his plan was in going public. So after that, I learned to be careful what you say, even though nick and myself still do not care for one another.

Since then, nick indicated that he wished me the best, and no hard feelings.

So the Fauna moderators jumping on here and lunching a guy, who got took for $4,000.00 and saying "karma is a B&$&@@"

How can this behavior be justified. At all costs, I understand that Nick will never bow to me, on the same token, at all costs, I will never bow to Nick.

Is Nick asking ppl to lynch Chris Davis for that one occurrence, or are Fauna folks trying to declare their loyalty for Nick by attacking me, regarding the nasty bout, long ago.

This is a discussion that should be said. It is what it is. If the facts are, that a spat with a Fauna moderator, I honestly feel that I am being scammed, because the other party thinks I can never get a fair shake, because of that spat.

In regards to posting my conversations with Brenner, I feel like that is a nasty blow, and I know how it feels to have private conversations publicized. However, if Brenner starts posting our conversation, I will post the whole months and months worth. But with Steven telling me to be patient, - and he is not arguing the facts, I have no choice but to be patient.

It really bothers me that one nasty bout, can cause such grief. I am trying to avoid the word Bullying, but what else can it be?

People may join the reptile business, - and probably screw up six ways to Sunday. The important part is do they learn? - and does the problem cease and desist? Go ahead and slap me around all you want, it's fine, but Fauna should move on from past occupancies, - and not drag that bout around like a disease.

None of this is intended to be disrespectful in any way

 

[Kristi23]

I knew nothing of your past and my first thought was "where is the proof"? I expect that with anyone who posts, no matter what their reputation is.

Would you want someone posting a bad guy thread on you and then not post any e-mails, texts, or proof? Do you just take someone's word when you read something?

If you were screwed over, it's good that you posted. But you do need to show proof instead of just telling us. This forum is used to help others choose who to do business with or not. I personally don't just take someone's word when trying to decide.

 

[Lucille]

But with Steven telling me to be patient

Promising the other party that they will get something if only they close the Paypal dispute is problematic, and if the dispute was opened because the other party didn't get what they bargained for in the first place, after the dispute is closed their chances of getting anything often decline substantially.
There you sit, waiting.

In regards to posting my conversations with Brenner, I feel like that is a nasty blow, and I know how it feels to have private conversations publicized. However, if Brenner starts posting our conversation, I will post the whole months and months worth. But with Steven telling me to be patient, - and he is not arguing the facts, I have no choice but to be patient.

So he got you to cancel your Paypal dispute, and you are not going to post the factual proof you have.
I think readers should think carefully about dealing with either party here.

 

[calebroad]

Steven Brenner told me that my 400 of chargeback was keeping him from completing a $4,000.00 transaction. So I figured, if I'm gonna take a cold $4,000.00 bath, what's another 400?

So I spun the dice on the 400, that was my reasoning on the matter. Anything I do, he uses as the reason for non-completion. So I have eliminated anything I was doing. Ultimately, if he wants to put the screws to me, it's gonna happen, since I sent my turtle away. In a sense, I am trying to handle this with delicate gloves

 

[Pasodama]

Chris, no moderator has stated "karma is a " nor has any moderator gone against you in this thread. Even most members, who have posted, have not said anything about your deserving to be taken advantage of. Your behavior of being some "victim", by members/moderators in this thread, is ridiculous.

What is desired, from you, is proof of your allegations. Nothing more than would be asked of anyone posting a negative BOI thread.
Only thing is that it was pointed out that, given your past, it is even more important for you to post proof.
Most members are not going take you (or anyone for that matter) at your word alone.

No matter who you are, or even if you have done wrong in the past, right is right and wrong is wrong. If you prove your case, and you are in the right, you will be defended.

Why is it that you fail to understand, any of that, and have some need to embellish what has truly been said/done in this thread?

....

 

[Lucille]

Since the parties will not provide facts, I am trying to make sense of what has been provided. Apparently there were more deals going on, Steven sent soft shells which were received.
This thread was about a trade for charcoal turtles.

We openly agreed that I would send him my beautiful turtle, and later on, when his charcoal stuff hatched. He would send me charcoal turtles of equal value.

Apparently the OP then bought charcoal turtles elsewhere.
The OP says that Steven complained that this purchase 'messed him up'.

Steven Brenner said that since I bought some charcoal turtles from another breeder, following our deal, it messed him up

Steven says the reason for the delay is that the OP kept changing his mind.

I didn't stick to the orginal trade deal because he changed his mind, and wanted something else I don't know how many times, but I made him an offer a couple weeks back for something and he agreed so when I receive the animal it will be shipped.. End of story

The OP, however, accuses Steven of being a thief

I charged back about $400.00 through paypal, in desperate attempt to get back my stolen property, or at least, have an offer.

Steven says he is waiting for the turtle and will ship it to the OP when he gets it.
Since the soft shells were received and Steven says the delay is due to the OP's changing his mind many times about what he wanted, there is some question in my mind how valid this chargeback was, was it merely a fraudulent tactic, a tantrum?

The prices were provided as part of this same transaction. In any event, those were dropped, and I find it hard to see why that would justify, accepting my turtle and then failing in the other parties end. Steven Brenner did provide the albino Softshells and they were beautiful.

Is the OP's dropping of the chargeback, and sudden patience due to the hidden emails possibly pointing to an unjustified chargeback, which might have some consequences to him?

Yes, this is mere speculation, but after all, the parties have the facts at their fingertips. We must make do with what has been said here.

 

[calebroad]

Okay, bearing in mind that months of communications have occurred. And that the opposing party has not denied my claim.

Tell me what I need to post, specifically, and if possible, I will post

 

[calebroad]

I have clearly stated the ss were provided at special pricing as a part of this same transaction. No matter what, it was all part of the same transaction. That is how is explained it to PayPal, that is how I explained it on here, -and that is how I will forever, explain the Softshells. That is how it was and that will never change.

However, let's speculate it was a false chargeback, and that it was dropped. How does the stolen $4,000 turtle become affected? Or justified?

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

I fully realize I shouldn't say anything else, I should keep my fingers crossed that I recover the $4k. - and just be quiet. However, I'm not good at just biting my tongue.

Some people on here are referring to my "checkered past", or my faulty record, or my bad rap, or my being the devil, or the monster of the universe.

It should be said, that I had one nasty bout with a moderator, with whom I have never done a transaction with. In all fairness, I was not familiar with the BOI, in my defense, I felt like I was lured, since Nick spoke according to what his plan was in going public. So after that, I learned to be careful what you say, even though nick and myself still do not care for one another.

Since then, nick indicated that he wished me the best, and no hard feelings.

So the Fauna moderators jumping on here and lunching a guy, who got took for $4,000.00 and saying "karma is a B&$&@@"

How can this behavior be justified. At all costs, I understand that Nick will never bow to me, on the same token, at all costs, I will never bow to Nick.

Is Nick asking ppl to lynch Chris Davis for that one occurrence, or are Fauna folks trying to declare their loyalty for Nick by attacking me, regarding the nasty bout, long ago.

This is a discussion that should be said. It is what it is. If the facts are, that a spat with a Fauna moderator, I honestly feel that I am being scammed, because the other party thinks I can never get a fair shake, because of that spat.

In regards to posting my conversations with Brenner, I feel like that is a nasty blow, and I know how it feels to have private conversations publicized. However, if Brenner starts posting our conversation, I will post the whole months and months worth. But with Steven telling me to be patient, - and he is not arguing the facts, I have no choice but to be patient.

It really bothers me that one nasty bout, can cause such grief. I am trying to avoid the word Bullying, but what else can it be?

People may join the reptile business, - and probably screw up six ways to Sunday. The important part is do they learn? - and does the problem cease and desist? Go ahead and slap me around all you want, it's fine, but Fauna should move on from past occupancies, - and not drag that bout around like a disease.

None of this is intended to be disrespectful in any way

Lured? You threatened me multiple times. My plan to go public? You made some odd threat to spread misinformation and repeatedly threatened violence. I responded by exposing your threats so that anyone choosing to could make an informed decision regarding behaviors and interactions involved in the communications exchanged between us.

No moderator of this site has jumped on here and lynched you. You are assembling a collection of false accusations that may rival or even exceed your collection of animals.

Bow? Your usage of this word is indicative of a fundamental root regarding your misunderstanding of relationships and interactions between people who do not irrationally threaten each other. This is not about superiority, inferiority, or dominion. It is supposed to be egalitarian exchange, but based on previous boasts about being above people, levels, and whatever else in such a vein, this concept seems to be eluding you.

Why are you asking if I am asking anyone to lynch you? I obviously have requested no such thing.

Bullying? You may have tried to bully when you made threats. When you have accused others of bullying, it seems to be a knee-jerk reaction whenever people simply disagree with the merits of your claims. Kind of waste of a word when the word is repeatedly misapplied via false assertion.

----------------------------

Now with that unnecessarily melodramatic injection of detritus having been addressed, I guess I will address the primary topics of the thread with clarifying questions.

Did you change the original deal? How many times did you change the original deal if you did?

It appears that the disputes you made through PayPal were fraudulent. You sent funds for animals and received those animals you sent the funds for to satisfactory effect by your own admission. You have relabeled the fraud as "negotiating power" despite it looking, as of now, like it was separate from -although possibly influenced by in terms of price breaks...to your benefit- the original caramel-for-charcoal agreement.

Was the agreement to compensate you for the caramel with a snow made before or after this thread was started?

 

[calebroad]

Stevens charcoals were going to hatch several weeks after I sent my turtle. He said things had not worked out as he planned. He said he did not have the hatchlings that he expected. Since then I have desperately and increasingly been grasping for anything.

Did I change the deal? No way, however, I have agreed to accept a regular caramel or a split Scute snow, or I am open to other items to salvage something and cut my losses.

He has played hard ball, never giving a single inch. Constantly falling back on "your not very well liked".

He offered those other turtles prior to this thread. But in any case, every attempt I have made has failed, and I give it a 2% chance that I will ever see my money or turtle.

He stated I changed my mind? Yet he told me that his charcoals had not hatched out like he expected. And from that point on, I'm screwed. Twisting words cannot make up for a stolen animal

 

[calebroad]

Steven Brenner is not posting on here, probably hoping that the threat will turn in to me versus the folks on this thread.

That's not going to happen, I did nothing wrong and I am out my $4k turtle

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Stevens charcoals were going to hatch several weeks after I sent my turtle. He said things had not worked out as he planned. He said he did not have the hatchlings that he expected. Since then I have desperately and increasingly been grasping for anything.

Did I change the deal? No way, however, I have agreed to accept a regular caramel or a split Scute snow, or I am open to other items to salvage something and cut my losses.

He has played hard ball, never giving a single inch. Constantly falling back on "your not very well liked".

He offered those other turtles prior to this thread. But in any case, every attempt I have made has failed, and I give it a 2% chance that I will ever see my money or turtle.

He stated I changed my mind? Yet he told me that his charcoals had not hatched out like he expected. And from that point on, I'm screwed. Twisting words cannot make up for a stolen animal

Did you agree to the offer of the snow with split scutes before starting the thread?