Inquiry Steven Brenner Transaction

[Bobby Douglass]

I'm friends with both people involved in this topic, and have been asked several times, by both people, what my opinion is. The mods only seem to address their hurt feelings from the past, so I thought I'd respond. Steven, he's agreed to the caramel or split snow, what's the hold up? That Caramel is huge and worth the trade he's agreed to, and it's been along time now. If you can come up with the trade, what's the problem? There's 3 clear routes to choose from, and that's come up with the cash, the trade, or return the caramel. I know Dawn loves that turtle, and if I had one of those turtles I'd give t to you to square up with, but the fact is that you owe him from that caramel. I don't see what's so complicated about it. Mods, great job at staying on topic, you guys are real pros.

There has only been one moderator that's posted in this thread and he has only posted questions related to this transaction except to address off topic statements made by Chris.

 

[calebroad]

Its All Chris Davis' Fault?

Although you are owed the snow, the fact that it has not been shipped yet cannot be characterized as a theft, (it is an unusual animal and your latest agreement was mere weeks ago) notwithstanding your laughable offer to fly up and talk to a judge (after your fraud and illegal mailing, no less).
You know you are not flying anywhere, it was an idiotic piece of drama. And, I believe, relevant to Steven's silence. Why would he make an appearance when you are acting a fool? (I did contact him, he may have taken one look at your tripe and just decided he wasn't going to deal with you.)




This is a reasonable way to interact, with reasonable choices, and had the OP been reasonable, Steven may have updated the status of the snow by now.

In my very first post, as well as contacts, that were sent very early on, I was extremely polite, even though I could see that remarks were being made by Steven Brenner, seemed to try to twist my words. Seemed to be things that someone with bad intentions might say, but I was not sure.

I even stated, in my very first post to this thread, that no matter what I say, the other party was trying to twist the wording, as to use against me. I even stated that Steven Brenner would likely say that, if I had not gone to the BOI, I would have had my snow.

And now, as the reality of the theft has set in, my context and my wording has become stronger, since the reality of the situation has become more obvious.

And now, Steven Brenner has a spokeswomen, that is saying on his behalf, that if I had done this, or done that, I would have my snow.

So, as Steven Brenners spokeswomen, are you saying that the turtle is stolen forever, because of my actions?

Which would be exactly, 100% what I stated in my opening complaint?

Thank You

 

[calebroad]

Lucille

There has only been one moderator that's posted in this thread and he has only posted questions related to this transaction except to address off topic statements made by Chris.

Im sorry, is Lucille a moderator?

 

[DavidBeard]

Although you are owed the snow, the fact that it has not been shipped yet cannot be characterized as a theft, (it is an unusual animal and your latest agreement was mere weeks ago) notwithstanding your laughable offer to fly up and talk to a judge (after your fraud and illegal mailing, no less).
You know you are not flying anywhere, it was an idiotic piece of drama. And, I believe, relevant to Steven's silence. Why would he make an appearance when you are acting a fool? (I did contact him, he may have taken one look at your tripe and just decided he wasn't going to deal with you.)




This is a reasonable way to interact, with reasonable choices, and had the OP been reasonable, Steven may have updated the status of the snow by now.

Surprised to see this here......this borders on third-party message delivery, and from a longtime member like you, I don't quite understand it. If you spoke to someone involved in the possible theft/non-delivery of an animal.....why can he not come here and say his piece himself? It does seem as though you're speaking for him, with major conjecture being alluded to.

 

[DavidBeard]

Although you are owed the snow, the fact that it has not been shipped yet cannot be characterized as a theft, (it is an unusual animal and your latest agreement was mere weeks ago) notwithstanding your laughable offer to fly up and talk to a judge (after your fraud and illegal mailing, no less).
You know you are not flying anywhere, it was an idiotic piece of drama. And, I believe, relevant to Steven's silence. Why would he make an appearance when you are acting a fool? (I did contact him, he may have taken one look at your tripe and just decided he wasn't going to deal with you.)




This is a reasonable way to interact, with reasonable choices, and had the OP been reasonable, Steven may have updated the status of the snow by now.

Another part of this that sticks out to me......at first you say the OP is "acting a fool".....then go on to say right below it that he is being reasonable. So which is he: reasonable or a fool? Seem like polar opposites to me.

 

[calebroad]

I am a little bit taken back by Lucille, becoming a third party message deliverer. But also strikingly harsh on OP.

But if we stay on topic, both Steven and myself have spoken negatively at times. Afterall, this has gone on a long time.

However, despite how much we ended up mouthing off to one another, I held up my end of the trade, and Steven Brenner did not, that is the topic of most importance, is the caramel pink, het snow res, that has been accepted, with no payment.

 

[Gerards]

it is an unusual animal

It's not unusual, it's expensive. There's plenty available, and purchasing one would only take a phone call. If I had any left I'd end this right now, but I've sold them all.

Another part of this that sticks out to me......at first you say the OP is "acting a fool".....then go on to say right below it that he is being reasonable. So which is he: reasonable or a fool? Seem like polar opposites to me.

I think she was talking to me on that part.

 

[DavidBeard]

I misread part of her post.....overlooked the "had" in the last sentence. Oversight on my part, definitely.

 

[calebroad]

Lucille (third party messenger)

Several months ago, Steven Brenner, who I feel is a reputable and honest reptile enthusiasts, became interested in one of my caramel 100% het snow turtles. Steven Brenner and I became good friends by phone and he said exactly what I needed to hear and I had no reason not to trust him. We openly agreed that I would send him my beautiful turtle, and later on, when his charcoal stuff hatched. He would send me charcoal turtles of equal value. He explained to me how huge and reputable he is in the reptile industry, so I felt honored to have a new contact, and I had absolutely no trust issues with Steven Brenner.

The trade Charcoal turtles could have been albino het, green het, charcoal, or whatever (same value). Anyway. I shipped off my turtle in good faith and with trust, since afterall, this guy has a reputation to protect, and its unlikely he would put the screws to me. Also I felt like him deceiving me, and then keeping my turtle was extremely unlikely.

He was happy with the turtle I sent and all was well. But as time went on, I started asking questions. And I began to hear from Steven Brenner less and less. There was always one reason after another from Steven, followed by another. I remained patient, even though this was obviously not panning out as agreed.

Over the past few months, I have called other people in the industry looking for advice on how to best handle this situation with the least drama as possible. Everyone said to keep my cool, and hope for the best. After several months had passed, I began trying to act firm with Steven, to in hopes that a resolution would draw closer. But he would immediately respond about how huge he is in the reptile industry and how I am not very well liked.

When I said that his huge reputation and my being "disliked" had no relevance to this deal, he stated that I had upset a moderator with whom I had never had any business dealings with before. Again, I just could not find relevance between this and the turtle deal. Anyway, it became one thing after another, Steven Brenner said that since I bought some charcoal turtles from another breeder, following our deal, it messed him up, but how? He could not explain how. Then he kept throwing out irrelevant comments that I simply could find no correlation to. Finally, as the third month of going in circles approached, I charged back about $400.00 through paypal, in desperate attempt to get back my stolen property, or at least, have an offer.

This made Steven Brenner mad, and just like with everything I say, he uses that as a justification for not completing the transaction. He promised if I would terminate the paypal chargebacks (they cannot be reopened) that he would send me a regular caramel and I was to just cut my losses.

Obviously, I wasnt happy, but I cancelled my chargebacks and agreed to accept the caramel by September 20th, and simply cut my losses. Afterall, I do not want the headache and hassle of any conflict.

September 20th came and went. Steven Brenner has a different explanation for every day of the week, and Steven Brenner has led me round and round and round. Eventually, I became upset after he continued to say "Chris, your not well liked", and the "he is huge in the reptile industry". My frustration boiled over and after three months, I suggested I would get the cops involved. Once again, he said my "threats" will ensure that I never see a penny, or my turtle. However, it was obvious that Steven Brenner was fishing for any kind of reaction from me, so that, no matter what I might say, he could throw it back in my face, and blame me for the theft, but also say "your not very well liked". But also he made other weird statements that caused me to believe this transaction was going to cost me huge.

So, I have laid out the facts here. Maybe I am not liked in the industry, and maybe Steven Brenner is so huge that he can steal a $4,000 turtle, and nobody will bat an eye.

But at the very least, I am sharing my story. No matter what Steven Brenner says, even if he says that I am the devil himself and that he the King of all reptile breeders. The fact still remains that I sent him the turtle, of which he acknowledges receipt, and he has offered me nothing, nada, zero, and he refused to put any timeline on anything. I feel very strongly I have been scammed. He will likely say that If I would not have done the BOI report, I would have gotten my turtles the next day, because that is the kind of stuff Steven Brenner has been saying for three months now.

I cannot judge Steven Brenner because I dont really know him. But we have done a transaction together, that has resulted, so far, in huge headache, anxiety, and the feeling of being cheated.

With any luck at all, Steven Brenner will make good on this deal, and we can part ways, and I personally would not do business with again. Also, I will admit that after three months of being led around in circles, I did become upset at times and demand the deal be completed. But regardless, Steven Brenner refuses to return my turtle, and no offer has been made to resolve the issue.

Im not placing judgement on anyone, but I have come to the BOI with a true transaction problem, and hopefully others can find this useful.

Chris Davis

Sorry for typos, I'm on my phone. Let me point out that nearly three weeks ago, I posted the above. Let me simply point out that I specifically stated that no matter what I say, Steven will say "that's why you have not received your end".

This proves this was going on back then. And now, a third party messenger (Lucille) has engaged in this exact thing. Saying my victimization is my very own fault because of my own actions.

Yes, this is obviously frustrating. But I'm just gonna be quiet, the fact remains, I held up my end.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

I'm friends with both people involved in this topic, and have been asked several times, by both people, what my opinion is. The mods only seem to address their hurt feelings from the past, so I thought I'd respond. Steven, he's agreed to the caramel or split snow, what's the hold up? That Caramel is huge and worth the trade he's agreed to, and it's been along time now. If you can come up with the trade, what's the problem? There's 3 clear routes to choose from, and that's come up with the cash, the trade, or return the caramel. I know Dawn loves that turtle, and if I had one of those turtles I'd give t to you to square up with, but the fact is that you owe him from that caramel. I don't see what's so complicated about it. Mods, great job at staying on topic, you guys are real pros.

Based on the emboldened portion(s), you may have been reading something else somewhere else. I am the only moderator that has been responding in this thread. There have also been various types of non-moderator posts by interested members seeking to flesh out the situation and add differing points of input. The blue text was anything in official moderator capacity and the standard text color was as an individual member to request information for clarity (what was done involving the deal and what actions were taken that were tangential to the deal itself...for better and for worse) as well as to address various matters of inaccuracy posited as factual (switching back to blue text if relating to false statements regarding what is involved in site policy). Even when providing instruction as a moderator regarding the provision of image-based evidence in this venue, I did so with specific cautionary guidance so that Chris Davis could avoid commonplace rule breaks that lead to the issuance of point-bearing infractions since I anticipated that possibility and felt he would benefit from not earning such.

Thanks. It can be difficult when some people only weigh in because they enjoy stirring the pot using imagination-based slights despite what the posts actually say in a given thread, but we somehow manage despite the poor signal-to-noise ratio that can crop up from those parties.

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I do not think members discussing this here disagree that the current agreement should be completed as outlined and that that piece of things is for Steven to finalize with delivery of the snow RES with split scutes, but I have only read the entirety of the thread without skipping any portions or imagining something that is not present.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Im sorry, is Lucille a moderator?

She is not.

 

[calebroad]

BOI

Based on the emboldened portion(s), you may have been reading something else somewhere else. I am the only moderator that has been responding in this thread. There have also been various types of non-moderator posts by interested members seeking to flesh out the situation and add differing points of input. The blue text was anything in official moderator capacity and the standard text color was as an individual member to request information for clarity (what was done involving the deal and what actions were taken that were tangential to the deal itself...for better and for worse) as well as to address various matters of inaccuracy posited as factual (switching back to blue text if relating to false statements regarding what is involved in site policy). Even when providing instruction as a moderator regarding the provision of image-based evidence in this venue, I did so with specific cautionary guidance so that Chris Davis could avoid commonplace rule breaks that lead to the issuance of point-bearing infractions since I anticipated that possibility and felt he would benefit from not earning such.

Thanks. It can be difficult when some people only weigh in because they enjoy stirring the pot using imagination-based slights despite what the posts actually say in a given thread, but we somehow manage despite the poor signal-to-noise ratio that can crop up from those parties.

------------

I do not think members discussing this here disagree that the current agreement should be completed as outlined and that that piece of things is for Steven to finalize with delivery of the snow RES with split scutes, but I have only read the entirety of the thread without skipping any portions or imagining something that is not present.

I thought Lucille was a moderator, so maybe I gave her posts more merit than what was deserved. She was most definately stirring the pot. I appreciated the advice that was provided to me with regards to posting and avoiding infractions, I found it useful and also It was provided upon my requesting that info.

Even though I understand the BOI can't get my turtle back, overall I'm very happy that I was able to use this resource to post my views. And despite any past occurrences, I believe I have received a fair shake, and I did not believe that would happen. So thank you

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Member exchange of information is a matter of equal footing when we share. It should not be discounted because someone is not a moderator. You would not want to have information dismissed because you are not a moderator. In that same way, a person should not dismiss another member's input because that member is not a moderator. Merit of input is not derived from the nature of one's account here. The idea is separate from the human.

I was referring to other parties with pot-stirring commentary, but that is a personal perception.

For what it is worth, I hope you receive your owed turtle soon and then I hope both you and Steven can simply part ways and move on so you are both free to pursue your own interests without this complication lingering like a bad aftertaste from what ought to have been a pleasant meal.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

I thought Lucille was a moderator, so maybe I gave her posts more merit than what was deserved. She was most definately stirring the pot. I appreciated the advice that was provided to me with regards to posting and avoiding infractions, I found it useful and also It was provided upon my requesting that info.

Even though I understand the BOI can't get my turtle back, overall I'm very happy that I was able to use this resource to post my views. And despite any past occurrences, I believe I have received a fair shake, and I did not believe that would happen. So thank you

Good post. You made mistakes but nobody can deny you're owed the turtle.

 

[Gerards]

Nick, you're a little late, the moderator issue was pointed out. Some people talk on here like they are one, and I don't care enough to read what ever you guys call yourselves. I am friends with Steven and Chris, and would like to see this end with both of my friends being happy.
Setting a time line to come up with payment is SOP, and 2 weeks, on top of the months that have gone by, seems very fair, would you agree? Hopefully my cousin(Stevens girlfriend) can keep the Caramel she loves so much, but you can't just take someone's turtle and not pay for it. I don't care if it was my best friend, it's not right. Pay for it, trade for it, or give it back. It's pretty simple. There's plenty of caramels for sale, and getting one would take one phone call.

 

[Gerards]

Yeah, you guys beat me, all that I said was covered.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Nick, you're a little late, the moderator issue was pointed out. Some people talk on here like they are one, and I don't care enough to read what ever you guys call yourselves. I am friends with Steven and Chris, and would like to see this end with both of my friends being happy.
Setting a time line to come up with payment is SOP, and 2 weeks, on top of the months that have gone by, seems very fair, would you agree? Hopefully my cousin(Stevens girlfriend) can keep the Caramel she loves so much, but you can't just take someone's turtle and not pay for it. I don't care if it was my best friend, it's not right. Pay for it, trade for it, or give it back. It's pretty simple. There's plenty of caramels for sale, and getting one would take one phone call.

I am not aware there is a time limit for my responses and my response addressed more than one aspect, so there is nothing time-critical about my post.

I think if Steven can get this done with at this point, he should do so asap.

 

[Gerards]

You may respond whenever you like, it's your site. Just saying that the mod issue was pointed out already. I didn't have time to read the rest. Thanks, though.
I think a time frame should be agreed to, and if not met, the caramel should be returned.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

You may respond whenever you like, it's your site. Just saying that the mod issue was pointed out already. I didn't have time to read the rest. Thanks, though.
I think a time frame should be agreed to, and if not met, the caramel should be returned.

It is not my site. I am confident you read it all and you are most welcome.

 

[Lucille]

why can he not come here and say his piece himself?

The extent of my contact was to request that he come here and address the issues and make sure that the posts about the transaction reflect all of what happened. My own thought that followed, is that he has seen Chris being ridiculous and simply does not want to deal with that.

Merit of input is not derived from the nature of one's account here.

I agree

And now, Steven Brenner has a spokeswomen

I am speaking for myself. My opinions about your fraud, illegal shipping, and other matters are entirely my own.

I do not think members discussing this here disagree that the current agreement should be completed as outlined and that that piece of things is for Steven to finalize with delivery of the snow RES with split scutes, but I have only read the entirety of the thread without skipping any portions or imagining something that is not present.

I think everyone agrees that Chris should get his snow turtle. However, unless he stops making ridiculous threats about flying out to talk to judges, and unless he makes an effort at civil communication with Steven, I see difficulties in getting this transaction wrapped up.