• Responding to email notices you receive.
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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy Steve Lloyd [Vfxsteve1815]

Andy27012 said:
You will need to follow up with your credit card company, PayPal does not cover live animals under their refund policies. That being said, the animal was obviously ill prior to being shipped.
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that is a very outdated thought, since paypal got "divorced" from ebay they have been much more accomadating.
"live animals" is not really a factor now as long as the rest of the terms were clear and if it is a case of buyer did not receive what he paid for then it will be reviewed and assessed like any other purchase
 
Andy27012 said:
Here is a current link from PayPal clearly stating they do not cover live animal purchases. Even if as you said PayPal did cover said purchases the animals were accurately represented prior to shipping, they were just sold sick. I'm not saying it's right but as the saying goes, "buyer beware".
https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/...-regulate-any-other-goods-or-services-FAQ2091
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Lets not derail this thread but regardless of whatever statement you may find there are PLENTY of people recently who have successfully had a claim upheld by PayPal on live reptile purchases, just search some of the paypal threads here.
Animals were NOT accurately described at all......did seller state they were infested in mites? Did seller state the female was already knocking at deaths door?
I feel op has a very good case for a refund through PayPal as "items not being as described".
Lets wait and see the outcome.
Thank you
 
Andy27012 said:
Here is a current link from PayPal clearly stating they do not cover live animal purchases. Even if as you said PayPal did cover said purchases the animals were accurately represented prior to shipping, they were just sold sick. I'm not saying it's right but as the saying goes, "buyer beware".
https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/...-regulate-any-other-goods-or-services-FAQ2091
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Many people have had success getting their money back through paypal as evidenced by other BOI's on fauna, and I would also disagree that the animals were accurately represented as she was stated to be just "in shed" with no other issues.
 
There have in fact been positive outcomes for a wronged buyer in the last year or so of escalation of a Paypal case involving live animals.
Buyer's CC company requested that Paypal be tried first, so whatever the outcome, it is reasonable for him to proceed in this manner.
 
I read through the thread fairly quickly, but didn't see it (could be wrong and if I am, please correct me) Why did you pay the paypal fee? Even if it were for an "EBAY" transaction, sellers are NOT to request that the buyer pay the fee. That is a Sellers fee to eat for having the ability to use paypal. You as a BUYER do not have fees and do NOT have to pay those fees. You should not have gone through with the deal since he asked you to specifically pay for those fees (which is against TOS of paypal.)

Also, that snake looked bad from the picture of his that you posted. I wouldn't have gone through with the deal just based on that picture. I have no belief that he thought the snake was fine, and then the fact that he told you that sometimes he's had people say that the animal has gotten mites in shipment? Never heard of that phenomenon.

Sorry to hear of the snake's passing, but this guy is not going to make good on anything because I feel as if his thinking is; he's gotten the money and you got at least one good snake out of it, so you're owed nothing.

Better luck next time.
 
Mistyck said:
I read through the thread fairly quickly, but didn't see it (could be wrong and if I am, please correct me) Why did you pay the paypal fee? Even if it were for an "EBAY" transaction, sellers are NOT to request that the buyer pay the fee. That is a Sellers fee to eat for having the ability to use paypal. You as a BUYER do not have fees and do NOT have to pay those fees. You should not have gone through with the deal since he asked you to specifically pay for those fees (which is against TOS of paypal.)


Better luck next time.
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I hope that since this is against PayPal TOS that it will bolster my position. My disappointment is immense, but I take satisfaction in the fact that any future potential buyer will be able to search this thread and make their decision based on the contents of it.

I wouldn't buy a snake from Steve again with someone else's money, and unfortunately I cannot make any further purchases from anyone without references/BOI to back them up. It's things like this that hinder our hobby. Start-ups and new breeders need someone to take a chance on them, and now there is one less person that is willing to do that.
 
Acrimonious said:
Start-ups and new breeders need someone to take a chance on them, and now there is one less person that is willing to do that.
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I will check with Rich, but I would like to put a Sticky thread up related to this exact subject. To build up a reputation both in your Fauna profile and on the BOI, you don't need someone to take a chance on you as a seller first. Instead build up your reputation as a "Buyer" first. When you buy from others here, you need to specifically ask them to rate you on the BOI and trader rating system. Don't hope that they will do it, ask them to do it.

You can build up a great rating "First", then others will have confidence in you as a Seller "Secondly".
Need a cage? Need rodents? Need a breeder male? Buy all three of those things from 3 separate established individuals here on Fauna. Execute 3 separate successful transactions. Ask those 3 people for ratings and a BOI report.

Presto, you suddenly have something to show for yourself versus when people expect to come here and instantly start selling with zero track record of anything.

You (generic "you") are going to buy this stuff anyways... people should build their reputations in the process! Here is a great example. Pet Kingdom simply asked people for reviews and presto, 3 pages worth.

Anyways, I can go on and on, but I'll save that for the Sticky thread later. I hope this makes sense.
 

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Acrimonious said:
I hope that since this is against PayPal TOS that it will bolster my position. My disappointment is immense, but I take satisfaction in the fact that any future potential buyer will be able to search this thread and make their decision based on the contents of it.
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Nice comment, but you still didn't answer my question. Why did you pay the paypal fee that the seller requested you pay? You even questioned him, and still paid it. I want to know your thinking behind that.

It doesn't really bolster your position, but does show that to get what you want, you were willing to do whatever was asked of you. Which isn't always a good thing.
 
Mistyck said:
Nice comment, but you still didn't answer my question. Why did you pay the paypal fee that the seller requested you pay? You even questioned him, and still paid it. I want to know your thinking behind that.
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Acrimonious said:
Additionally, when I was sent the invoice Steve charged ME the PayPal fee. I know this isn't right, but again I was excited and thought the price even with the fee was fair -- so I paid it.
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As quoted above. ^^
 
Acrimonious said:
As quoted above. ^^
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I wanted to make sure I was correct.

As I stated below:

Mistyck said:
It doesn't really bolster your position, but does show that to get what you want, you were willing to do whatever was asked of you. Which isn't always a good thing.
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While I'm not agreeing with the seller, you knew it was wrong, yet you couldn't get past the "great deal" you were getting. Your "great deal" you were getting turned around and bit you in your rear. I hope you get some compensation, and I don't know how it will come out, but I do hope that you don't jump the gun for another "great deal" again.
 
If he sent it friends and family I could see what you are saying Brandi, but I don't see how being willing to pay something that he's told he shouldn't have to pay (as per the Paypal TOS) means that he was willing to do something "wrong". IMO he didn't do anything wrong by paying, the seller did something wrong by asking him to. I think it would have highlighted that the seller is shady and maybe should have been a signal that he's not someone you'd want to do business with, but he has admitted his excitement over the price clouded his judgement. That's just my two cents though, and we all know what pennies are worth these days :)
 
AllisonLeigh said:
If he sent it friends and family I could see what you are saying Brandi, but I don't see how being willing to pay something that he's told he shouldn't have to pay (as per the Paypal TOS) means that he was willing to do something "wrong". IMO he didn't do anything wrong by paying, the seller did something wrong by asking him to. I think it would have highlighted that the seller is shady and maybe should have been a signal that he's not someone you'd want to do business with, but he has admitted his excitement over the price clouded his judgement. That's just my two cents though, and we all know what pennies are worth these days :)
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"Wrong" might have the incorrect word, but he knew he didn't feel right about paying that fee yet he still paid it because the deal was too good to pass up. If a deal is too good to be true, it more than likely is. I understand he was excited, and I can appreciate that.

Your two cents are welcome. Different perspectives are what make the site work. :)
 
OP, I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm sure we can all relate to the excitement of getting a new pair of snakes, and while there were a couple of red flags (the pics of the snake, the pay pal fee) that are good to learn for future reference, it's understandable that a buyer could overlook that. I don't think it was "wrong" to pay the PP fee - this is not the same as sending the money friends and family, which screws PP out of their fee for the transaction. Most sellers either just pay the fee as a cost of business, or price the animal just a little bit higher to include the fee.

Unfortunately, I think the seller has a little wiggle room on this due to the time that passed before you notified him of the female's condition. I don't believe the snake was healthy when he shipped it, but by not saying something immediately it leaves open a way for him to argue that it was your husbandry over those few weeks, not his, that caused the problem. I don't think this community buys that argument for one second, but a shady seller will find excuses where he can.

In any case, how awful to get a snake in such poor condition, with mites, and then have it pass away. It's truly reprehensible for the seller to be selling snakes he knows have mites, and in such bad condition. I know there are a lot of good sellers and good people in this community, and I hope your next purchase goes a lot better. I also hope the male woma continues to do better.
 
Thank you once more to everyone who contributed to this thread. I didn't want to exhume it until I had word back from both PayPal and my credit card company. Both have declined the charge back because the animal has no official paperwork stating it's condition as poor on arrival. Obviously the tragedy here is the loss of the animals life not the money.

The male I have has thrived. The mites have been gone for some time, and he still hasn't missed a meal. I'm certainly glad to see he has come through as okay. I don't imagine I will respond further in this thread, but thank you once more to everyone who assisted me in this process and thank you to the people who befriended me on the side.

I hope someone will see this thread and gain a better understatement for how to spot a problem snake, and why a trip to the vet if you think something is dubious is so important in protecting you as a buyer and your animals well being. I feel very confident in saying that I believe I was deliberately sent animals that were sick and underweight. Hopefully this thread will serve as resource to future buyers so they can make an informed decision based on the experiences of a couple others.

I wish Steve the best, but I wouldn't purchase anything from him again.
 
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