Bad Guy Ty park/ ty lizards FL

[tlmoon]

It is just not fair or reasonable to place the blame on Michelle. I do not understand anyone defending Ty by stating the Michelle was unreasonable, greedy, should have just gone along, etc. That she should have just kissed up to Ty and taken whatever she could get.

If you paid $400 in a raffle for a brand new Tesla fully electric car, and won: and then they said, well we never really had that model, sorry. But we do have a diesel Mercedes we got from somebody. No, we won't tell you who that is. You want the carfax report on it? Dang, you ungrateful greedy person. You should be grateful you're getting anything. You only wanted an electric Tesla car? Well, too bad. We're going to deliver this tomorrow so better take it.

I mean come ON. MICHELLE IS NOT IN THE WRONG HERE. Look at this in isolation from who you think Ty is. Can you really, truly support the person running the raffle?

 

[caffeinecynic]

Talk about pointless? That is the problem with people like you, everything is black and white. She was offered a tegu, she insisted on more info. she was given a deadline, she wanted more info, deadline passed, she wants more info. tegu gone, she wants more info.

I don't work with tegus, but I would absolutely not accept an unspecified animal without:

1: Having a photograph of said animal before I received it (to ensure the right animal was sent to me)

2: Have proof of who produced said animal (especially in light of something with genetics that I might potentially want to breed, species notwithstanding)

3: Have some kind of understanding of what day it is going to be shipped (mutual agreement)

Whatever else you think of Ty, he did not offer Michelle any of these options. She didn't continually ask for more information inadequately: she asked the questions any responsible reptile keeper would want.

You replied later that she could simply sell the animal if it wasn't to her liking or didn't fit with what she wanted, but Ty refused to even give her a breeder name - how could she in good conscience sell an animal with so many unknowns?

I have been following this thread from the beginning, and I have no dog in this race (so to speak), so I have not commented before now, but I cannot stay quiet any longer. What would you have done if it were you? I am pretty strict on my quarantine and I am equally strict on what I allow into my collection and my home. Maybe the tegu world is different and there is something I am missing here (I'm a snake person), but if I was entered into a lottery for an animal of a specific lineage, and was then told I wasn't getting the animal of that lineage/breeding (told, not asked) and then demanded to ship without any photos of reference, I would be pretty upset. It's not like she got this animal free: she paid for the raffle tickets, and that $400 should merit her at the minimum the courtesy of showing her the animal she'd be receiving, making sure it was the one she wanted, any and all information she needed to be able to catalog it correctly in her collection (I happen to catalog my stuff by who I purchased it from and who bred it where necessary), and some consideration for what time would be acceptable to receive it.

There was an enormous amount of poor communication on Mr. Park's end here and this whole situation could have been resolved, most likely, with a simple question statement - "I did not produce any blue tegus this year, but my friend (name) did. Would you be willing to accept one of those instead, or would you like to have a purple one (which I did produce)?"

The only person who appears greedy here is Mr. Park. He stated very clearly his refusal to give her a purple one because it was worth more than what he auctioned. That's fine: give her the money, then, as promised.

TL;DR
Ty had multiple courses he could have taken and multiple errors he made in dealing with Michelle (and to be honest, aside from being a little brusque in communication, I don't feel she made any).

- He could have ASKED her if she'd accept a blue produced by someone else (and also gave her the name of who the breeder was). He never once ASKED her anything, he just told her. Based on her replies, she may well have accepted this if he had provided the breeder name and photos. That is not too much to ask of anyone.

- He could have ASKED her if she'd accept a purple tegu instead (which she has said she would).

- He could have EXPLAINED that he was going to send her a purple one and ask what day would be okay with shipping.

- He could have sent her the money she was entitled to for having won when he didn't produce what was expected.

Any of these options would have been more acceptable than this.

 

[thomas davis]

the truly pathetic thing is this could/would go away so fast and ty could even come out smelling like a rose if he would simply apologize, BE A MAN, honor his word, and send this woman her prize either an albino tegu or 3K.
as it is he smells like fecal matter and no one with any integrity or decency can or will say otherwise as its such a BLATANT screwjob
never give up michelle spend a little and run an ad in his local newspaper explaining what he did to you. document everything and send it to everyone squeaky wheel his people, vacation in fla. and picket protest his farm tell everyone NEVER GIVE UP

 

[caffeinecynic]

the truly pathetic thing is this could/would go away so fast and ty could even come out smelling like a rose if he would simply apologize, BE A MAN, honor his word, and send this woman her prize either an albino tegu or 3K.
as it is he smells like fecal matter and no one with any integrity or decency can or will say otherwise as its such a BLATANT screwjob
never give up michelle spend a little and run an ad in his local newspaper explaining what he did to you. document everything and send it to everyone squeaky wheel his people, vacation in fla. and picket protest his farm tell everyone NEVER GIVE UP

After this much of a fiasco, he would not come out smelling like a rose. I don't know about anyone else, but even if he makes it right, his treatment of Michelle has said enough about his character that I would never purchase anything from him. He'd have to do a lot to make this right enough for me to even consider it.

 

[Sugarhedgie]

I don't work with tegus, but I would absolutely not accept an unspecified animal without:

1: Having a photograph of said animal before I received it (to ensure the right animal was sent to me)

2: Have proof of who produced said animal (especially in light of something with genetics that I might potentially want to breed, species notwithstanding)

3: Have some kind of understanding of what day it is going to be shipped (mutual agreement)

Whatever else you think of Ty, he did not offer Michelle any of these options. She didn't continually ask for more information inadequately: she asked the questions any responsible reptile keeper would want.

You replied later that she could simply sell the animal if it wasn't to her liking or didn't fit with what she wanted, but Ty refused to even give her a breeder name - how could she in good conscience sell an animal with so many unknowns?

I have been following this thread from the beginning, and I have no dog in this race (so to speak), so I have not commented before now, but I cannot stay quiet any longer. What would you have done if it were you? I am pretty strict on my quarantine and I am equally strict on what I allow into my collection and my home. Maybe the tegu world is different and there is something I am missing here (I'm a snake person), but if I was entered into a lottery for an animal of a specific lineage, and was then told I wasn't getting the animal of that lineage/breeding (told, not asked) and then demanded to ship without any photos of reference, I would be pretty upset. It's not like she got this animal free: she paid for the raffle tickets, and that $400 should merit her at the minimum the courtesy of showing her the animal she'd be receiving, making sure it was the one she wanted, any and all information she needed to be able to catalog it correctly in her collection (I happen to catalog my stuff by who I purchased it from and who bred it where necessary), and some consideration for what time would be acceptable to receive it.

There was an enormous amount of poor communication on Mr. Park's end here and this whole situation could have been resolved, most likely, with a simple question statement - "I did not produce any blue tegus this year, but my friend (name) did. Would you be willing to accept one of those instead, or would you like to have a purple one (which I did produce)?"

The only person who appears greedy here is Mr. Park. He stated very clearly his refusal to give her a purple one because it was worth more than what he auctioned. That's fine: give her the money, then, as promised.

TL;DR
Ty had multiple courses he could have taken and multiple errors he made in dealing with Michelle (and to be honest, aside from being a little brusque in communication, I don't feel she made any).

- He could have ASKED her if she'd accept a blue produced by someone else (and also gave her the name of who the breeder was). He never once ASKED her anything, he just told her. Based on her replies, she may well have accepted this if he had provided the breeder name and photos. That is not too much to ask of anyone.

- He could have ASKED her if she'd accept a purple tegu instead (which she has said she would).

- He could have EXPLAINED that he was going to send her a purple one and ask what day would be okay with shipping.

- He could have sent her the money she was entitled to for having won when he didn't produce what was expected.

Any of these options would have been more acceptable than this.

 

[Sugarhedgie]

the truly pathetic thing is this could/would go away so fast and ty could even come out smelling like a rose if he would simply apologize, BE A MAN, honor his word, and send this woman her prize either an albino tegu or 3K.
as it is he smells like fecal matter and no one with any integrity or decency can or will say otherwise as its such a BLATANT screwjob
never give up michelle spend a little and run an ad in his local newspaper explaining what he did to you. document everything and send it to everyone squeaky wheel his people, vacation in fla. and picket protest his farm tell everyone NEVER GIVE UP

A friend of mine wants me to come visit her in Fl and gonto his big shindig but I don't want him to have the satisfaction of having someone escort me out. I'm saving my vacation for court. The dept of agriculture consumer services opened a case that will be public, and I have contacted everyone in Fl that may be able to help. I'm sorry but I will be doing the same in AZ. As I do feel like the IRCF could have also made this right.
Usark didn't seam to care. But I will continue to fight the fight because I was scammed out of something that I won.

 

[Sugarhedgie]

After this much of a fiasco, he would not come out smelling like a rose. I don't know about anyone else, but even if he makes it right, his treatment of Michelle has said enough about his character that I would never purchase anything from him. He'd have to do a lot to make this right enough for me to even consider it.

I would NEVER do business with him again.
It took me a long time to get the courage to post here because of all the bs that I endoured from his possie on fb.
Name calling. Threats, slander and deformation of character.
I am a well known sugar glider breeder and I have been screwed over before but I don't lash out. I usually just chalk it up to a lesson learned. But this man treated me like a 2 year old. I would have NEVER TREATED A CUSTOMER OF MINE LIKE HE TREATED ME!!!
He tried to dictate every move that he wanted to make and I am not a pawn. Had he had handled this with a little bit of respect and worked with me to come up with a REASONABLE compromise. Instead of being deceptive, dishonest and shady , I probably wouldn't even posted anything. But I am glad I posted now. because maybe if will prevent even just one person from being scammed by mr park. This post was also made with good intentions, I had hoped that he would have made this right. His comment #77 showed that that just isn't gonna happen because of his ego. He may be Rich and can throw his money around so people like him but he can't run from this.
I won't give up till I get what was promised.

 

[kerrek]

When I asked him for a purple t+ he said NO
ty even admitted this publically. So in Oct when he tells me "give me your shipping info so he can ship it. What is he shipping?????
I would have just sent the addy, what did you imagine he was going to ship? A bag of coal?

That's all the OP asked for what was he shipping? Can you tell me why you think it's ok for TY to ship her an animal without disclosing any info about it?

You build incubators and according to your website The Best Reptile Incubators. Period. When I got back into breeding reptiles I asked who makes the best incubators (because I had bought a couple of incubators that ended up being pieces of crap) most people recommended yours. Because of this I paid you for one of your incubators because that's what I wanted. If for some reason you were unable to produce that incubator do you think you would have had the right to take my money and send me a different incubator? Would you have done that without telling me where it came from and who built it? Because that's what Ty asked the OP to do and it's nuts to me that people think that's ok.

 

[KelcifersDragons]

Just to clarify;
Ty's purples are still pure albino blues they are t+. They are not the purples that underground produces which are red and blue cross albinos. Ty has produced both t+ and t- albino blues.

 

[zovick]

Perhaps Casey was offered money to come here and defend Ty. All of a sudden, the thread becomes active again, he is here with one defense after another. Defenses that I'm not sure are all his.

If indeed there is a link between Casey Hulse and Ty Park (as Lucille and a couple others are theorizing), it may not be quite as direct as a fee for services rendered on the BOI.

Perhaps Ty has bought a number of incubators from Casey Hulse and/or referred him a lot of customers.

 

[Casey Hulse]

That's all the OP asked for what was he shipping? Can you tell me why you think it's ok for TY to ship her an animal without disclosing any info about it?

You build incubators and according to your website The Best Reptile Incubators. Period. When I got back into breeding reptiles I asked who makes the best incubators (because I had bought a couple of incubators that ended up being pieces of crap) most people recommended yours. Because of this I paid you for one of your incubators because that's what I wanted. If for some reason you were unable to produce that incubator do you think you would have had the right to take my money and send me a different incubator? Would you have done that without telling me where it came from and who built it? Because that's what Ty asked the OP to do and it's nuts to me that people think that's ok.

Never, But that is not how I imagine it going down with Ty and Michelle. Both of them entered into this on good faith, both doing something "good" for the iguanas. Michelle is a winner and proceeds to explain to Ty the way HIS raffle is supposed to work, and Ty needs to give her $3000. Now, since TY did produce albinos, the $3000 is out (in his mind) so he tells her she will recieve her prize shortly, after he acquires them from a friend. She again Explains to Ty how his raffle works, and that she should get the $3000. Ty tells her, she is NOT getting the $$ because he did produce albinos. She tells him this is shady, his raffle is scammy, but insists Ty continue to provide her with information.
Now if Ty thought everything he was doing was above board (he may have felt that way), and here is Michelle Cutler basically calling him a scammer, I think the civility is over at that point. Ty felt like he would be reaping the admiration of iguana lovers, instead he is being called Shady, Scammy. he wanted to get this annoying person out of his life, not continue with this type of dialogue, he was done. (he could not provide her w/breeder info. if he was so inclined, because he could not find any blues anyway). He told her to send her address by such and such date, and her prize (albino tegu) would be shipped, or it would be re-auctioned.
She did not send her shipping address, the prize was re auctioned, and delivered. Then even after the law suit, Michelle is still contacting him, asking question to further her case.
She acts like a very sweet lady, but she never hesitates to bash anyone by agreeing with someone else s hateful post.

If indeed there is a link between Casey Hulse and Ty Park (as Lucille and a couple others are theorizing), it may not be quite as direct as a fee for services rendered on the BOI.

This is funny to me because I have contacted Ty, at LUCILLES urging to try to help bring this to an end. Remember when you asked me to Lucille? To the best of my knowledge I have never done business with TY, or communicated with him in any way except the one instance.


I still feel like this forum will work better, and possibly this situation could have been resolved had there not been such a mob mentality here. It seems like a half dozen or so members try to keep the flow of a thread going the way they want it, by bullying anyone who disagrees with them. I remember the "wolf-pack", this is worse. This mob has a couple of leaders who start the attack, one is just plain mean, the other is more subtle, but just as nasty

Michelle, you can highlight an area of a post, hit copy, then paste it rather than copying the whole post if you want to address one specific area.

 

[Lucille]

Remember when you asked me to Lucille?

I do. It seems as if Ty is simply bent on doing what he wants and does not care that he is now seen by many as unethical and selfish.
The facts have been brought up again and again, but Casey, you seem to have suddenly initiated a string of defenses for Ty, and I believe what he did was wrong and I have every right to call it like I see it.

try to keep the flow of a thread going the way they want it

That seems to be what you are doing, and your descriptions of those who believe in, and are trying to help Michelle, are very much personal attacks.

 

[Sugarhedgie]

Casey says
Michelle is a winner and proceeds to explain to Ty the way HIS raffle is supposed to work, and Ty needs to give her $3000. Now, since TY did produce albinos, the $3000 is out (in his mind) so he tells her she will recieve her prize shortly, after he acquires them from a friend. She again Explains to Ty how his raffle works, and that she should get the $3000. Ty tells her, she is NOT getting the $$ because he did produce albinos. She tells him this is shady, his raffle is scammy, but insists Ty continue to provide her with information.


Someine had to remind him how HIS raffle was supposed to work. Because he started trying to change his own terms. DICTATING NOT EVEN ASKING

And if he felt that he did produce albinos
And therefore felt like
He didnt owe the money. Then why wouldn't he have just said I only
Produced purple albinos would you like
Me you one of those?
Instead he said I only produced purples they are worth 5,000
I only owe you 2500

People settle out of court all the time and after I filed he was the one who made that post in his page where I was attacked, called names and he lied to his followers several times. Because he told his followers he was going to give me a purple. And he never responded to my comment on his post asking for clarification. Yes I did message him for clarification. He said it's to late for that.

We have already went over Ty's demand of my shipping info , sorry if I wanted to know what this man was going to ship as he said no to the purple, said he didn't produce and could not get any t- but said is would be like one in the raffle photo. he didn't have in his statements a t- so I wanted to know what he was shipping.
Like most normal people would want to know

 

[nicksgrl26]

There is a reason why when a car is raffled off there is like 2 pages of fine print. Unless there is a stipulation somewhere that you get a prize that is not was advertised somewhere then she is owed at least an albino tegu because the raffle has to be taken at face value. The 3,000 is another matter because it was mentioned in a "hey guys what do you think" manner and not the official raffle post done the next day.

Its unfortunate that the situation devolved as it did, it was for a good cause and I think egos and such got in the way of what it was really about. Overall, it doesn't matter how you feel about someone or how they come off to you, once you take the money you are in a contract with them, but sometimes when there is no meeting of the minds in said contract it can become null and void. In his head he seems to think you get "a" tegu and you think it was "his" tegu. The official raffle post doesn't help because it was "an albino tegu" and not his. To be honest this court case could go either way ....it would be 100% up to the judge because this is just a bunch of grey area stuff. He may say there was a reasonable expectation to get his or he could say hey it doesn't say it explicitly in the raffle. One thing I don't think you will get though is the money because it was never officially part of the raffle.

I hope Ty puts some fine print somewhere in his next raffle so there is no confusion next time and I hope eventually Michelle gets her albino tegu. Maybe you will get a baby from this season that is exactly what you won, who knows. I would just ask Ty to be empathetic to the situation. If you won something but came off as abrasive and then they didn't want to deal with you anymore, I doubt you would just forget about it and move on.

 

[Casey Hulse]

People settle out of court all the time and after I filed he was the one who made that post in his page where I was attacked, called names and he lied to his followers several times. Because he told his followers he was going to give me a purple. And he never responded to my comment on his post asking for clarification. Yes I did message him for clarification. He said it's to late for that.

I contacted Ty ( the first and only only time I have ever had any dialogue with him on your behalf, on Lucilles urging (she thought I could represent a somewhat "neutral" party) to try to help. Ty was very polite, but said he does not mind spending money in court to prove his case. This was done by FB messaging.

 

[MikeCurtin]

People dontae because they can afford to and want to heck I donate to non profits as well but I dont ask for or require gratification I do it out of my heart.
almost every time ty speaks he gloats/brags about how much money he spends and how much money he donates.
While I do applaud him (as I would anyone who donates) for helping many causes. I do NOT for one second think his generosity should in any way shape or form relieve him of his obligation to give me the prize I won *even if he felt I was "greedy". I should not have to beg for it and I should not have to sue for it
TY SHOULD JUST GIVE IT TO ME !!
He basically made a contract and failed to make good on it. So is everyone supposed to praise him for donating $14,510 to the IRCF AND JUST WIPE IT UNDER THE RUG THAT HE SCAMMED ME OUT OF MY PRIZE. !!!!

What he did was wrong , shady, deceitful and manipulative. He tried to bully me into accepting whatever he chose to send me , he belittled me, slandered me and called me names. That is not a man who people should look up to no matter how much money he has to donate or has donated.
It is disgusting the way that he acted here. He is egotistical and narcissistic and he has no regard for other people's feelings. He obviously doesn't even know right from wrong

I am also dissapointed with the IRCFS responce to this. Thee bottom line is that ty raised $14,510 for the IRCF from this raffle/auction. (That's IF he even donated it all to them ) but the IRCF could have easily talked to ty and tried to persuade him to give me one of the 6 T+ albinos that he still has and like the other 3 received and if ty was not willing imo they should/could have given me the $3,000. It still would have left them with $11,510.

I get it....I agree with you.

I was speaking to Casey's integrity, not position on this matter. I disagree with him 100%.....that's ok. My post was a direct response to the accusation of him taking money to defend Ty.

If you want to prevail, both here and in court, try not to take it so personally when someone disagrees with you. The facts are on your side, and most can see that. It's really ok if some do not.

I don't work with tegus, but I would absolutely not accept an unspecified animal without:

1: Having a photograph of said animal before I received it (to ensure the right animal was sent to me)

2: Have proof of who produced said animal (especially in light of something with genetics that I might potentially want to breed, species notwithstanding)

3: Have some kind of understanding of what day it is going to be shipped (mutual agreement)

Whatever else you think of Ty, he did not offer Michelle any of these options. She didn't continually ask for more information inadequately: she asked the questions any responsible reptile keeper would want.

Yes.

That's all the OP asked for what was he shipping? Can you tell me why you think it's ok for TY to ship her an animal without disclosing any info about it?

You build incubators and according to your website The Best Reptile Incubators. Period. When I got back into breeding reptiles I asked who makes the best incubators (because I had bought a couple of incubators that ended up being pieces of crap) most people recommended yours. Because of this I paid you for one of your incubators because that's what I wanted. If for some reason you were unable to produce that incubator do you think you would have had the right to take my money and send me a different incubator? Would you have done that without telling me where it came from and who built it? Because that's what Ty asked the OP to do and it's nuts to me that people think that's ok.

And, yes.

 

[Fangthane]

I was speaking to Casey's integrity, not position on this matter.

Considering how he's chosen to justify Ty Park's actions in this matter, I think the two are pretty clearly intertwined. Like Ty, he may have once been a good guy who'd never rip someone off. Now? Based solely on his own words, I'm just not so sure. He's made statements that simply don't jibe with my own thoughts on what it means to have integrity.

Any amount of so-called annoyance Ty Park supposedly received from the OP having the audacity to calmly ask him questions could in any way justify her being left with nothing? Not with anyone who actually possesses integrity, I'd think. Unlike what he's whining about coming from the BOI "mob," I think it's pretty clear that the treatment she got from Ty and the sycophants on his Fakebook page is probably the closest thing to actual bullying that I've seen in this entire situation.

Ty Park having produced T+ albinos, in any way modifies a contract that specifically stated it pertained to the raffling of T- albinos? Yeah...NO!

She should have just accepted whatever he felt like sending her, and simply flipped it? Way to completely remove the onus from any given seller to actually send what was specifically purchased. Definitely not a Good Guy mindset to embrace.

In so desperately grasping at the most flimsy, nonsensical, non-existent straws to defend Ty's actions, I think he's clearly shown his current approximation of what integrity means to him. I find it very lacking in simple honesty and decency.

She acts like a very sweet lady, but she never hesitates to bash anyone by agreeing with someone else s hateful post.

Agreeing with those who are more willing to call a spade a spade amounts to bashing? Your intellectual dishonesty truly knows no bounds - and I've come to really hate using the word "intellectual" in any sentence where you're the subject.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Post #1 correspondence. Ty solicits his unsuspecting victim. His exact words. "How many of you would be interested if "I" ran an on-line raffle for a baby albino "blue" Tegu to be delivered in July?...if for any reason "I" do not produce any albino this year (chance of this will be almost none) I would pay the winner $3000 out of MY OWN POCKET. Where is the grey area here? How can anyone defend this creep? I don't give a rat's ass what he's done for charity, animals etc. He has proven himself to be an arrogant, self proclaimed elitist punk who has no problem using his popularity to abuse others who don't worship him. Self entitlement is a symptom of a few disorders. Narcissism and sociopathy are just two. I've been here almost 15 years, and for the first time, in a loooong time, I am witness to a patron I respected until now, SELL OUT!

 

[Chris Kennard]

I contacted Ty ( the first and only only time I have ever had any dialogue with him on your behalf, on Lucilles urging (she thought I could represent a somewhat "neutral" party) to try to help. Ty was very polite, but said he does not mind spending money in court to prove his case. This was done by FB messaging.

Wow! Youre such a hero! The only mistake Lucille made was trusting you to be on the right side of the fence. By the way, I heard that Jeffrey Dahmer was polite to people he friggin' ate. Just sayin'.

 

[nicksgrl26]

If you are referring to me defending him about the grey area, I'm not defending either one, just looking at it from an objective point of view. Morally this whole thing kinda sucks and I definitely would not have handled it in the same way even if I had a fundamental difference of opinion or values, but you have to look at it objectively if you want any sort of reasonable solution.

The whole situation isn't a good one, but erasing all the emotional parts of it the only thing that will ultimately matter if it comes down to courts is what was written in the actual raffle. (Assuming the raffle was legal). On top of that, counting the eggs before they hatch ...the courts have no way of producing out of thin air an albino tegu so they would probably just refund the money she paid for it making her whole OR ask him to give her one once one is produced (the actual one in the raffle, not the upgrade unless he chose to upgrade). Its a bad situation from a poorly written raffle. Fine print is your friend, account for all possible situations in writing and this would not be happening.

I don't think ultimately the money would be awarded because it seems to me at that point he was thinking about it and then when the actual raffle was announced it was not included.

I think what is probably worse than that is that the animal was raffled a second time for an extra whatever amount of money. The other people in that raffle had more of a claim to the raffled animal than the next group that bid. You can't take the same item and raffle it twice. I think the whole first raffle should be voided and everyone in that group should get the money back that paid for tickets.