Bad Guy Ty park/ ty lizards FL

[Mister Internet]

He said if she did not send him her shipping info. he would re-raffle HER prize (tegu), and she would get nothing.

This is literally the entire reason this thread exists. He had no right to do this, and decided to do it anyway. If he had fulfilled the OBLIGATION he took on by running this raffle, this thread would not exist... or it may, as a Good Guy thread.

He ASSUMED this obligation for himself... no one forced him to do it. 1 albino tegu that he produced, or $3K cash. Period. That was the obligation. He was not forced to do this, and EVERYONE who entered the raffle did so under the impression that those terms comprised HIS OBLIGATION.

As you said, he then decided that if he did not receive her address in an arbitrary period of time (completely fabricated, and not part of his obligation), that she would get nothing.

'Prize payable upon arbitrary timeliness of submission of address for shipping before buyer knows what she's getting or who produced it' was NOT part of the terms she agreed to. It wasn't part of the terms at all. It was fabricated after the fact.

HE DOES NOT GET TO DECIDE THAT SHE RECEIVES NOTHING. HE HAS NOT FULFILLED HIS OBLIGATION.

Goodness.

 

[Lucille]

He simply donated his animals to their raffle.

I suggest you read the earlier posts in this thread, Ty did far more than simply donate, and his actions and involvement may have run afoul of the laws in several states, as too the actions of the IRCF.

 

[Casey Hulse]

That is not what she said, so why are you being intellectually dishonest with this? What a disappointment.

This was a little bit of a joke, I was kidding. With all of the mud slinging and insults directed at me, you are disappointed with this? Sorry to disappoint, but if I was a little more thin skinned, I would probably be very hurt, and not come back to fauna anymore. There used to be many "active" members who do not even log on anymore for that very reason.

I vigorously disagree, and feel that you are trying to put the hush on. I believe that both the IRCF and Ty have behaved unethically and as well, I believe there are legal issues here which I will probably reprise shortly

Lucille, I was suggesting, what may have entered your mind when you asked me to contact Ty, nothing more. In other words, perhaps Ty would offer something if it appeared he was not doing so under duress, rather because he knew it was right. I do not know the Korean culture, but obviously some of them to not deal with being pressured very well, and whether it is deserved or not, have a great deal of pride. ( I hope I do not need to explain this)

 

[DavidBeard]

This was a little bit of a joke, I was kidding. With all of the mud slinging and insults directed at me, you are disappointed with this? Sorry to disappoint, but if I was a little more thin skinned, I would probably be very hurt, and not come back to fauna anymore. There used to be many "active" members who do not even log on anymore for that very reason.



Lucille, I was suggesting, what may have entered your mind when you asked me to contact Ty, nothing more. In other words, perhaps Ty would offer something if it appeared he was not doing so under duress, rather because he knew it was right. I do not know the Korean culture, but obviously some of them to not deal with being pressured very well, and whether it is deserved or not, have a great deal of pride. ( I hope I do not need to explain this)

Casey.....how on earth could expecting Ty to pony up his original raffle promise be remotely construed as "pressuring" him? Your responses in this thread have been inexplicably erratic and obtuse. Its almost as if you're purposely skipping massive parts of the conversation in an attempt to befuddle those who read your "opinions."

The fact that you're STILL debating this blows my mind.

 

[nicksgrl26]

you picked one thing out my my post, it explained why she wants the charity to pay money to her and while there may have been laws broken, which I also said I don't know raffle laws and promoting, it does show the reason why she wants to get money from the charity. On top of that I started my post with "probably" since I can't speak for her, but is what made sense to me for why she wants money from them.

As for reading the post, I did that from the first day and I probably won't read it again but I am aware of the accusations of illegally promoting from a different state and not being a member, them writing letters to her pretty much saying not my problem (which it obviously is), all the nasty stuff his friends said. I've also read his letter that makes him look like he could care less about all of this. I feel bad for her in the situation and again like I said I hope she gets what she wants that is within the law. I'm just not sure that a purple tegu is just that since she just said the raffle was for an animal that grows up just like the picture (t-). Just because he gave the other winners a purple doesn't obligate him to give her one as well. Its the good, reasonable, and face saving thing to do but not an obligation.

Robert gave sound, insightful, even-keeled advice and people are jumping on him for trying to calm things down and trying to help with yet another outside perspective, but I think Robert may be right about slowing down on the posts. If not just to give TY less fodder for the court date, because I bet while you are printing parts from this post out against him, he will probably print that post out against you showing what you understood what the raffle prize was (t-) so he doesn't have to give you the $6000 animal (t+).

Only reason I even posted on this thread is it seems that if the expectations were more realistic (this years t- tegu or 2500 for the cost of the animal or just the realization that the 400 is a real possibility in court ) that maybe this could be solved without going to small claims court in a different state which would eat up her winnings. The legality of the raffle is a whole separate situation and would probably be prosecuted from a state level and I'm not really sure what she would get from that.


Please try look at all of this without the hurt feelings and anger. Try to look at it black and white because when you go to court that is what they are going to look at. But again, I wish you the best with whatever you try to do.

 

[nicksgrl26]

I mean the legality of the charity and the raffle, the state will go after them if they are shady.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

This was a little bit of a joke, I was kidding. With all of the mud slinging and insults directed at me, you are disappointed with this? Sorry to disappoint, but if I was a little more thin skinned, I would probably be very hurt, and not come back to fauna anymore. There used to be many "active" members who do not even log on anymore for that very reason.

That seems like a convenient waving of the hand without any indicators at the time to support the new claim, so I have my doubts. I have plenty of disappointment to go around, but my expectations are/were greater for you based on my positive opinion of you overall. You reflexively point at someone else when called out on the messages you have composed, but someone else slinging mud and insults does not diminish what I address of yours. Likewise, why previously "active" members may or may not choose to log on has nothing to do with your statement I quoted and addressed specifically.

Just kidding. Wait. No, I am not.

 

[Lucille]

I mean the legality of the charity and the raffle, the state will go after them if they are shady.

You are right. But the state is not like God. They don't see everything, and just automatically go after transgressors. Sometimes one has to squeak the wheel a little, and that is what is happening here (and elsewhere, this thread is being sent to appropriate state offices).
Many times that is done first, and then civil actions later.

The fact that you're STILL debating this blows my mind.

I think this is no accident. Casey is posting in ways that seem to be deliberately not appreciating the efforts and questions/debates of past posters. Almost as if he does not like the picture, so he is repainting it as if it were a tabula rasa.

Casey, are you OK? There have been numerous discussions about this very point and you have participated in many of them. Don't you remember? Or is there a motive that I'm not seeing in reprising the entire discussions?



http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605930&highlight=ircf&page=2

Maybe that is the motive, a repaint job.

 

[MikeCurtin]

I have gone from fully reading and digesting the posts and arguments here to basically skimming. In doing so, one question has come to mind:

With the impending court date, what is the benefit of continued bickering over semantics and details? In my experience, most of the meat and potatoes of these threads is "hashed out" within the first several pages (as was done here). I'm not sure that these long, drawn out threads are more effective in reaching a settlement....perhaps, even the contrary (especially when the accused has long ago stopped responding).

Not telling anyone what to do, but if it was me, I'd post updates as they occur, and focus on the upcoming case.

 

[Lucille]

What? Yet ANOTHER attempt to put the hush on?

A court decision is not the only goal here and many things can go awry, delaying justice.
What is important here on the BOI is the community and its input. Those posts are of value to all of us and show that the vast majority of this community is outraged by Ty's actions, and many are not happy with the IRCF either. And that many of us support Michelle in her struggle for justice.

As we continue to discuss, ESPECIALLY when it appears there are people eager to silence us, we affirm the basic importance of community.

 

[MikeCurtin]

What? Yet ANOTHER attempt to put the hush on?

As we continue to discuss, ESPECIALLY when it appears there are people eager to silence us, we affirm the basic importance of community.

Nope.....not at all.

This is a question about the benefit of discussion with little to no new information, and it is not a rhetorical one.

Is it helpful in reaching a settlement, or is it more likely to result in Ty digging his heels in deeper and Michelle losing the support of would be sympathetic readers?

If you go back, you will see that I agree with Michelle and believe she is 100% ENTITLED TO RECEIVE HER PRIZE. I am, however, starting to feel that the continued bickering is counter-productive in the long run.

 

[Mister Internet]

if Ty park was named Ty Smith and a difference race, would there still be almost 78 pages about a raffle that gone bad?

Chinese hate Koreans. I only started to like Ty after reading my hero Bert Langerwerf's book. I am glad you guys all deny that this is not about race. He gets a lot of crap because he is an Asian man and doing very well in this field.

So you accuse thousands of people of being racist, and then in the very next breath justify your hatred of Koreans because "Chinese hate Koreans"?

 

[Mike (The M)]

What? Yet ANOTHER attempt to put the hush on?

A court decision is not the only goal here and many things can go awry, delaying justice.
What is important here on the BOI is the community and its input. Those posts are of value to all of us and show that the vast majority of this community is outraged by Ty's actions, and many are not happy with the IRCF either. And that many of us support Michelle in her struggle for justice.

As we continue to discuss, ESPECIALLY when it appears there are people eager to silence us, we affirm the basic importance of community.

I don't think it's a matter of anyone trying to silence anybody. Yes, there are detractors. There are supporters. That's pretty clear already. I've been following this since the beginning, but without any further action from Ty or IRCF, literally nothing in the narrative has changed.

More posts of people siding with Ty, and then others reiterating the case against him, doesn't strengthen the original argument.

Aside from making others aware of what happened, and the pending court results, what is the other goal? Ty has already been painted in a poor light. The people who are going to continue to support him will not change their minds. The people who do not will continue not to do so.

And with 80+ pages, anyone who reads the thread who may have been on the fence, I'd say there's plenty here for them to make their decisions.

If anything, the redundancy without any updates as to the outcome will make people lose interest.

 

[Casey Hulse]

What? Yet ANOTHER attempt to put the hush on?

A court decision is not the only goal here and many things can go awry, delaying justice.
What is important here on the BOI is the community and its input. Those posts are of value to all of us and show that the vast majority of this community is outraged by Ty's actions, and many are not happy with the IRCF either. And that many of us support Michelle in her struggle for justice.

As we continue to discuss, ESPECIALLY when it appears there are people eager to silence us, we affirm the basic importance of community.

I hope you realize how silly this is, coming from you. You do nothing but try to silence anyone who disagrees with you, constantly, speculating as to their ulterior motives, sinister motives, painting people who express their opposing opinion in a very unfavorable light. By all means, continue Lucille, keep posting your conspiracy theories, but do not lose sight of the fact, they are only your opinions

 

[Lucille]

You do nothing but try to silence

This seems to be another one of your alternative facts. I do frequently vigorously discuss issues, but here, there have been people trying to put the hush on conversations, even if the members here have issues they feel are of value to this thread.
If people want to talk, it is their decision and choice. Those who feel that talking is not fruitful, are welcome not to do so.

 

[thomas davis]

casey there are no conspiracy theories or opinions in this matter. there is only the FACT that ty park did not follow through with a raffle he organized with HIS terms. its about honesty, integrity, she simply wanted a lizard produced by him decided to buy tix to support the iggys and maybe win one think of how she felt when it was announced by ty park that she won just stop and think about that. how exciting not only did she win so did the iggys! what a happy moment that must have been for her WOW that's good stuff then look at what has transpired since... he has holdbacks and wont just send her one and be done with this?!?! its disgusting and IMHO as is anyone who thinks otherwise.

 

[Casey Hulse]

casey there are no conspiracy theories or opinions in this matter. there is only the FACT that ty park did not follow through with a raffle he organized with HIS terms. its about honesty, integrity, she simply wanted a lizard produced by him decided to buy tix to support the iggys and maybe win one think of how she felt when it was announced by ty park that she won just stop and think about that. how exciting not only did she win so did the iggys! what a happy moment that must have been for her WOW that's good stuff then look at what has transpired since... he has holdbacks and wont just send her one and be done with this?!?! its disgusting and IMHO as is anyone who thinks otherwise.

Thomas, I agree with almost 100% of what you posted, however, I think that the $3000 was more what Michelle wanted. I will post a little of what I am talking about from the post by Michelle of their conversation. I think Ty was going to send her a purple, but that is only my opinion. I think when Michelle said he could not be trusted, his raffle felt shady and scammy, she made a mistake. This is only my opinion, most disagree.

Ty I only hatched purple ones and I sell those for $5000. I'm pick them up from an another breeder and paying for them so you can have one. I'll pick them up this weekend. .











rMichelle
I thought it was one that you were to produce? And if you didn't produce them you said. You would pay the winners the
​​$3000
Ive heard so many good things about you and I don't know how o gel
about you getting it from another breeder
Did you not produce any like you thought you were going to??
​​Instead of you buying one from another breeder could you just pay me instead?











Ty Park
You are going to get a albino tegu.










​​
Michelle Cutler
who is the breeder? id rather take the money and wait till you produce one maybe next year, and maybe get one then.











Ty Park
You are not getting money. I will get an albino tegu like I promised. It's the same quality.











Michelle Cutler
then why did you say it in the post when you were selling the tickets??










​​ Ty Park
If I don't have an albino to give you I'll give you the money. I have albino so that's what you will get not cash.




I should have said if I didn't have any albinos to give you I'll give $3000




I'll get you an albino tegu as I promised.











Michelle Cutler
that was not the deal











Ok I'll send u one I produced ok




I was going to keep them all but I'll send one
I produced.











Michelle Cutler
you already said you did not produce any and that you only produced purples....... so how would i know now you aren't just going to get one from the other breeder??? and pass it off as one of yours? you said the other breeders are the same quality as yours would have been. so why would you have said you didn't produce any. then say you were going to get one for me from another breeder. instead of just telling the truth and honoring your promise. this is shady and if i had known this was going to be shady and scammy i prob wouldn't have bought tix for the albino/blue
​​

​​

 

[MikeCurtin]

If anything, the redundancy without any updates as to the outcome will make people lose interest.

Bingo.

Redundant post.

Redundant rebuttal.
​​

That's exactly my point.....as such, I think I may be becoming part of the problem.

 

[WebSlave]

Thomas, I agree with almost 100% of what you posted, however, I think that the $3000 was more what Michelle wanted. I will post a little of what I am talking about from the post by Michelle of their conversation. I think Ty was going to send her a purple, but that is only my opinion. I think when Michelle said he could not be trusted, his raffle felt shady and scammy, she made a mistake. This is only my opinion, most disagree.

Ty I only hatched purple ones and I sell those for $5000. I'm pick them up from an another breeder and paying for them so you can have one. I'll pick them up this weekend. .











rMichelle
I thought it was one that you were to produce? And if you didn't produce them you said. You would pay the winners the
​​$3000
Ive heard so many good things about you and I don't know how o gel
about you getting it from another breeder
Did you not produce any like you thought you were going to??
​​Instead of you buying one from another breeder could you just pay me instead?











Ty Park
You are going to get a albino tegu.










​​
Michelle Cutler
who is the breeder? id rather take the money and wait till you produce one maybe next year, and maybe get one then.











Ty Park
You are not getting money. I will get an albino tegu like I promised. It's the same quality.











Michelle Cutler
then why did you say it in the post when you were selling the tickets??










​​ Ty Park
If I don't have an albino to give you I'll give you the money. I have albino so that's what you will get not cash.




I should have said if I didn't have any albinos to give you I'll give $3000




I'll get you an albino tegu as I promised.











Michelle Cutler
that was not the deal











Ok I'll send u one I produced ok




I was going to keep them all but I'll send one
I produced.











Michelle Cutler
you already said you did not produce any and that you only produced purples....... so how would i know now you aren't just going to get one from the other breeder??? and pass it off as one of yours? you said the other breeders are the same quality as yours would have been. so why would you have said you didn't produce any. then say you were going to get one for me from another breeder. instead of just telling the truth and honoring your promise. this is shady and if i had known this was going to be shady and scammy i prob wouldn't have bought tix for the albino/blue
​​

​​

But what I am getting from the quote of the conversation between Ty and Michelle, perhaps it's all just a classic case of miscommunication? From Ty's perspective, he said he would be sending Michelle an albino tegu perhaps thinking in his mind, but not expressed, that he was going to send here one of the holdback purples. Michelle, on the other hand, taking ONLY what she was told specifically by Ty into consideration, understood that Ty did not produce the blues, and he had expressed his intention to buy one for her from another source. Which she did not want. At least not without some sort of documentation about that source. So when Ty stated he would send "one he produced", without any further elaboration, I believe any rational human being at that point would have been confused, and perhaps even leery of jumping to any conclusions without verification. She had reason to believe that perhaps she was being lied to by what appeared to be back peddling on the part of Ty. So had every reason to want to know exactly what she would be getting before accepting a shipment, based on the preceding conversations. It appears that Ty just refused to comply with her requests for more info, for whatever reasons, and the miscommunication never became COMMUNICATION, which could have resolved this at that time.

So who caused the miscommunication? Michelle or Ty?

As for the label of "greedy" being applied to Michelle, heck, the way I am reading this, it appears that Ty said he was going to be purchasing an albino iguana from someone else. And it appears to me that Michelle suggested that rather than all that bother, she would be perfectly willing to accept the cash that was offered as a stated option and the possibly purchase what she actually wanted from him next season. To a reasonable mind, this appears to be a reasonable solution to the dilemma.

Yeah, perhaps she jumped the gun saying things like "shady" and "scammy", but how much time passed by during this conversation? Were there any signs in the quoted conversation that might have gotten a reasonable person to start having doubts about what they had gotten themselves into? No reflection on Ty, but there ARE scammers out there, aren't there? Maybe those thoughts would have been better left unsaid, but I think anyone else in Michelle's shoes would have very likely at the very least had those very same thoughts going through their mind.

IMHO.

 

[NathanKS]

Just a point of clarification:

This thread is about an albino tegu, not an iguana or iggy as referenced in posts #816 and #819.