Bad Guy CCSB Reptile Rescue- Chad Griffin

[jessehherp]

**Buyer beware**
So recently i have done business with CCSB reptile rescue, they contacted me about having gold tegus, that i have been looking for quite some time. At first they seemed to be very legitimate and responsive, they assured me their animals were healthy, and had been treated. I asked if they had any females and they said they did. They sent me a picture of the one they said was female. We agreed upon a price of 100$ (which ended up being plus tax, although im pretty sure you dont have to tax on live animal sales in NC) totaling to 106.75$. We arranged for me to pick them up at their location, that with traffic was close to 2.5 hours away from me getting there, and almost 2 hours coming back, on monday, today, august 7th. I arrived early in the afternoon, walked around a little bit and then went to look at my tegu, i asked if i could sex it really quickly in order to make sure it was female, and while it is difficult to sex at that age the one they showed me had an enlarged scale next to the vent which usually indicates male. I asked if i could sex the other ones sense this one was male, and if they had a female, could i get that one, they agreed. They told me they had just finished un packing them from the show last weekend, which i already knew they would be going to because chad had told me they would be going, aside from the 'female' he sent me pictures of. We walked over to the ten gallon with a single heat lamp with a type A bulb in it, so, no UVB at all. They took the other two out let me sex them, i showed them the one i thought was female and asked if i could have that one, and they agreed, never at any point in time did chad griffin say that i couldn't have one of the other ones, and if that was the case he should have at least made that clear to the people working for him. Anyway they pack the lizard up, and all this time the woman there had an extremely bad attitude, the guy not so much, but the woman had very poor customer service. Finally i look around some more and notice several other animals that were thin, and having trouble shedding. I didnt notice anything else, other than there were MULTIPLE animals in way too small enclosures. For example, They had a HUGE alligator snapping turtle in what looked like a 55 gallon in the back part of the store, it could hardly even turn around. And a couple argentine tegus that were also in too small of an enclosure (this was in the front, not in the back where they have like a mini 'zoo' type area, the argentine b/w and red tegu in the back had decent sized enclosures.) Unfortunately my phone was dead and i didn't take any pictures, but i urge you to go there and look for yourself. Anyway, i get quite a good bit aways home, and notice a clicking sound that i immediately recognized as something respiratory. So i immediately called griffin exotics and got an appointment before bringing this baby home where i have many other reptiles (even though i quarantine in a separate room) just in case it was something viral. They luckily had a slot available, and i drove back in the direction of kannapolis, after getting pretty close to home coming from their shop in kernersville, to take this sweet baby to the vet. The vet then came to the conclusion, that aside from having layers upon layers of stuck shed, being pretty significantly underweight and lethargic, this baby had a respiratory infection that had ether started as or spread into a skin infection that showed up as hard nodule like things down her back, and up turned scales around her feet. She was prescribed several medications and is currently on cefa drops, panacur, liquid calcium, and carnivore care in hopes that she can recover. After the appointment i contact chad, and let him know what the vet said, i also sent him the receipt and what the vet had written up, he said the griffin exotics is a good vet, and they are, in my opinion, the best in the state for exotics, thats why i drive an hour plus to get my pets treated there. I told chad that i was very upset he sold me a sick animal, without a reply i then asked how he was going to make this right. He immediately flipped and became very rude. Denying that the animal was sick, and going on to accuse me of giving his employees a hard time, and telling me that i was not supposed to get a different lizard, which he had said nothing about prior, and his employees said nothing about when i was picking the lizard up. He then proceeded to tell me to watch my tone and how i handle myself, even though up to that point i had been very calm and rational. I told him he had incorrectly sexed the lizard and that his employees had said it was alright to get another one, he then said that was correct, meaning i had chose the one i wanted, which is true, but i was also assured they were all healthy and treated by him before i even asked if he had a female. I told him his employees had said they had just came back from the show, and I said regardless he was selling sick animals. He said correct as in he was selling them, and that they had been vet checked before the show as they have to. I asked to see proof of the vet check, and asked which veterinarian he went to, which he didnt respond to. I told him the tegu was definitely sick, reminding him his husbandry with the gold tegus wasn't even remotely within the realm of correct, and that he had said just days before that they were all treated, and that was before i even asked if he had a female. He didn't respond to any of that even though Facebook said he had seen it. As a last resort i offered a resolution, he give me a refund, pay for the vet bills, and either pick up the tegu or pay to have it shipped to him. He then refused the resolution, stating that the vet visit was unnecessary (yes a RESCUE saying that a vet visit, where an animal was diagnosed with a respiratory infection, was unnecessary) i told him i would no longer be doing business him and that i would be posting to several pages about my experience. Overall i have come to the conclusion that this is NOT an actual rescue Believe it or not they actually have a 501C, but in my opinion they are no where near a rescue. Hopefully this will help you make an informed choice about choosing whether or not to do business with them. You will find our conversation and other useful information in the photos.

 

[jessehherp]

CCSB reptile rescue- chad griffin

More photos of our conversation, these will all be in order -jessica hall

 

[jessehherp]

CCSB reptile rescue- chad griffin

Conversation cont. -jessica hall

 

[jessehherp]

CCSB reptile rescue- chad griffin

More photos again - jessica hall

 

[jessehherp]

CCSB REPTILE RESCUE CHAD GRIFFIN

More more photos

 

[jessehherp]

Ccsb reptile rescue chad griffin

Again with more photos of our convo -jessica hall, ohand aso i go by jamie

 

[jessehherp]

Ccsb reptile rescue- chad griffin

Almost done here - jessica hall

 

[jessehherp]

Ccsb reptile rescue - chad griffin

Ok this is the last of it. Thanks guys i will say the tegu did eat for me, which is why he looks chubby in the one photo. But that isnt surprising, gold tefus eat everything and anything no matter what, which is why its even more concerning hes under weight. You. Will notice lack of fat in the base of the tail and you can kind of see the legs look thinner, the vet said there was little to no muscle mass at all. She will also likely stop eating once she goes on the antibiotics... im just hoping she makes it at this point. Anyway thanks for reading. Please be careful when dealing with them.

 

[jessehherp]

Ccsb reptile rescue- chad griffin

I just want to reiterate these are my personal opinions and experiences from the time i started doing business with him until the time i decided to never do business with him again.

 

[Lucille]

First of all, I'm sorry you were sold a sick critter and there is no excuse for selling a critter like that. But you did have a chance to examine it prior to purchase, and if it had all that stuck shed and was lethargic, and you were already put on notice by the conditions you say you saw in the store, perhaps you should have not purchased it.
And it appears that your seller was and is willing to give you a refund, perhaps instead of calling the vet first you could have called the seller and returned it for a refund at that point.
While I reiterate that an ill critter should not be sold, I think in general it is best to communicate with the seller first if there is an issue, and see if there is a resolution prior to incurring vet bills.

Unfortunately my phone was dead and i didn't take any pictures

i get quite a good bit aways home, and notice a clicking sound that i immediately recognized as something respiratory. So i immediately called griffin exotics

How did you call if your phone was dead?

The vet then came to the conclusion, that aside from having layers upon layers of stuck shed, being pretty significantly underweight and lethargic, this baby had a respiratory infection that had ether started as or spread into a skin infection that showed up as hard nodule like things down her back, and up turned scales around her feet.

When you looked at the lizard in the store, didn't you see all of this?

 

[senusenu]

This massive block of text is incredibly hard to read, please in the future can you put in some paragraph breaks? Some people just skip right over these because it's too difficult to parse through, but since you've gone to the trouble to also provide evidence, I am going to fix this up in case anyone else has trouble reading it.

All text is quoted exactly, just broken into paragraphs for easier reading.

**Buyer beware**
So recently i have done business with CCSB reptile rescue, they contacted me about having gold tegus, that i have been looking for quite some time. At first they seemed to be very legitimate and responsive, they assured me their animals were healthy, and had been treated. I asked if they had any females and they said they did. They sent me a picture of the one they said was female.

We agreed upon a price of 100$ (which ended up being plus tax, although im pretty sure you dont have to tax on live animal sales in NC) totaling to 106.75$. We arranged for me to pick them up at their location, that with traffic was close to 2.5 hours away from me getting there, and almost 2 hours coming back, on monday, today, august 7th.

I arrived early in the afternoon, walked around a little bit and then went to look at my tegu, i asked if i could sex it really quickly in order to make sure it was female, and while it is difficult to sex at that age the one they showed me had an enlarged scale next to the vent which usually indicates male. I asked if i could sex the other ones sense this one was male, and if they had a female, could i get that one, they agreed. They told me they had just finished un packing them from the show last weekend, which i already knew they would be going to because chad had told me they would be going, aside from the 'female' he sent me pictures of.

We walked over to the ten gallon with a single heat lamp with a type A bulb in it, so, no UVB at all. They took the other two out let me sex them, i showed them the one i thought was female and asked if i could have that one, and they agreed, never at any point in time did chad griffin say that i couldn't have one of the other ones, and if that was the case he should have at least made that clear to the people working for him.

Anyway they pack the lizard up, and all this time the woman there had an extremely bad attitude, the guy not so much, but the woman had very poor customer service. Finally i look around some more and notice several other animals that were thin, and having trouble shedding. I didnt notice anything else, other than there were MULTIPLE animals in way too small enclosures. For example, They had a HUGE alligator snapping turtle in what looked like a 55 gallon in the back part of the store, it could hardly even turn around.

And a couple argentine tegus that were also in too small of an enclosure (this was in the front, not in the back where they have like a mini 'zoo' type area, the argentine b/w and red tegu in the back had decent sized enclosures.) Unfortunately my phone was dead and i didn't take any pictures, but i urge you to go there and look for yourself.

Anyway, i get quite a good bit aways home, and notice a clicking sound that i immediately recognized as something respiratory. So i immediately called griffin exotics and got an appointment before bringing this baby home where i have many other reptiles (even though i quarantine in a separate room) just in case it was something viral. They luckily had a slot available, and i drove back in the direction of kannapolis, after getting pretty close to home coming from their shop in kernersville, to take this sweet baby to the vet.

The vet then came to the conclusion, that aside from having layers upon layers of stuck shed, being pretty significantly underweight and lethargic, this baby had a respiratory infection that had ether started as or spread into a skin infection that showed up as hard nodule like things down her back, and up turned scales around her feet.

She was prescribed several medications and is currently on cefa drops, panacur, liquid calcium, and carnivore care in hopes that she can recover. After the appointment i contact chad, and let him know what the vet said, i also sent him the receipt and what the vet had written up, he said the griffin exotics is a good vet, and they are, in my opinion, the best in the state for exotics, thats why i drive an hour plus to get my pets treated there.

I told chad that i was very upset he sold me a sick animal, without a reply i then asked how he was going to make this right. He immediately flipped and became very rude. Denying that the animal was sick, and going on to accuse me of giving his employees a hard time, and telling me that i was not supposed to get a different lizard, which he had said nothing about prior, and his employees said nothing about when i was picking the lizard up.

He then proceeded to tell me to watch my tone and how i handle myself, even though up to that point i had been very calm and rational. I told him he had incorrectly sexed the lizard and that his employees had said it was alright to get another one, he then said that was correct, meaning i had chose the one i wanted, which is true, but i was also assured they were all healthy and treated by him before i even asked if he had a female.

I told him his employees had said they had just came back from the show, and I said regardless he was selling sick animals. He said correct as in he was selling them, and that they had been vet checked before the show as they have to. I asked to see proof of the vet check, and asked which veterinarian he went to, which he didnt respond to. I told him the tegu was definitely sick, reminding him his husbandry with the gold tegus wasn't even remotely within the realm of correct, and that he had said just days before that they were all treated, and that was before i even asked if he had a female.

He didn't respond to any of that even though Facebook said he had seen it. As a last resort i offered a resolution, he give me a refund, pay for the vet bills, and either pick up the tegu or pay to have it shipped to him. He then refused the resolution, stating that the vet visit was unnecessary (yes a RESCUE saying that a vet visit, where an animal was diagnosed with a respiratory infection, was unnecessary) i told him i would no longer be doing business him and that i would be posting to several pages about my experience.

Overall i have come to the conclusion that this is NOT an actual rescue Believe it or not they actually have a 501C, but in my opinion they are no where near a rescue. Hopefully this will help you make an informed choice about choosing whether or not to do business with them. You will find our conversation and other useful information in the photos.

That out of the way, I do have to agree with Lucille. If the conditions were so deplorable and animals visibly in ill-health, why would you still give them money? Stuck shed is typically very noticeable. I personally would steer way clear of someone selling animals where their enclosures are inappropriate like this (wrong lighting, missing UVB which means animals could potentially be suffering with MBD if it is long term neglect, and enclosures so small animals can't even move). The risk of sickness or long term, debilitating disease is just too great to be worth it.

I realize you were probably very excited, and a long drive is already a sunk cost so it's hard to just forfeit the expenditure and have nothing to show for it, but you will end up losing far more in the long run by taking in animals from someone who, according to you, was mistreating their critters.

Or perhaps you felt that you were "rescuing" the lizard from a harmful situation, but if that is the case, then any future costs are on you, since you took the risk to take it in despite evidence it might be sick.

Without any photographic evidence to back up your claims of the rescue's mistreatment, it is very difficult to say for certain whether this was truly a known risk or not.

Typically, it is expected that at the first sign of illness in a newly purchased animal, the buyer should contact the seller for advice or possible refund. Going to the vet first and then asking for payment for it after the fact generally doesn't go over well. Going to the vet first was your choice here (I'm not saying it was a wrong choice, just that you did that first before getting in contact with him). On the other hand, when you get to see, handle, and inspect the animal in person, many sellers do not offer refunds afterward because you've already had plenty of time to assess the critter and make a decision, and it's usually understood that by doing so, you have no concerns over the health of the animal.

That said, your closeup of the tegu's back does look like there's patches of stuck shed (the grey patches here and there), and the tail does look thin, but I'm definitely no expert. Regardless, he shouldn't be selling any animals that are sick, unless someone getting one KNOWS it may need vet care and agrees to take on that responsibility. It doesn't sound like that was an agreed upon condition, though.

More experienced people than me can weigh on the merits of refunds and whether or not that should include vet care.

 

[senusenu]

Further, I messaged CCSB on Facebook with a link to this thread so they can participate if they choose.

 

[EdwardK]

She will also likely stop eating once she goes on the antibiotics... im just hoping she makes it at this point. Anyway thanks for reading. Please be careful when dealing with them.

The vet provided you with Oxbow clinical care which is an easy to digest food that will be more than sufficient for the lizard while under treatment so there really isn't any need to stuff it before you begin to treat it.

As for the sales tax/non-profit argument, you might want to walk back that complaint a little, see http://www.dornc.com/practitioner/sales/bulletins/section17.pdf

17-1 EXEMPT SALES, TAXABLE SALES AND PURCHASES BY NONPROFIT ENTITIES

A. Exempt Sales by Nonprofit Entities

1. Sales of items by a nonprofit civic, charitable, educational, scientific or literary organization are exempt from tax when the net proceeds of the sales will be given or contributed to the State of North Carolina or to one or more of its agencies or instrumentalities, or to one or more nonprofit charitable organizations, one of whose purposes is to serve as a conduit through which such net proceeds will flow to the State or to one or more of its agencies or instrumentalities. [G.S. 105-164.13(34)]

2. Sales by a nonprofit civic, charitable, educational, scientific, literary, or fraternal organization are exempt from sales or use tax when all of the following conditions are met:

a. The sales are conducted only upon an annual basis for the purpose of raising funds for the organization’s activities.
b. The proceeds of the sale are actually used for the organization’s activities.
c. The products sold are delivered to the purchaser within 60 days after the first solicitation of any sale made during the organization’s annual sales period. [G.S. 105-164.13(35)]

3. Sales of food by a church or religious organization not operated for profit are exempt
from sales and use taxes when the proceeds of the sales are actually used for religious
activities. [G.S. 105- 164.13(31a)]

B. Taxable Sales by Nonprofit Entities
If any nonprofit entity named in this Bulletin makes retail sales, it must register with the Department and collect and remit the tax due on such taxable sales. Nonprofit entities properly registered for sales and use tax purposes may purchase the tangible personal property which
they resell exempt from tax provided they furnish such suppliers with a properly executed Streamlined Sales and Use Tax Agreement Certificate of Exemption, Form E-595E. Certificates of Exemption may not be used by any nonprofit entity named in this Bulletin, or by any other vendee, in making purchases of tangible personal property to be used or consumed by
such purchaser. The refund provisions contained in G.S. 105-164.14(b) do not apply to the tax on such sales and no part thereof shall be refunded or claimed as a refund.

They admitted that they were selling the tegus at the show to you and this admission indicates that they were conducting retail sales so on the face of it, they need to collect the sales tax.

Now there could be an issue made about them selling animals that were acquired as rescues as opposed to adopting them out but that could just be an issue of semantics.

some comments

Ed

 

[bcr229]

They admitted that they were selling the tegus at the show to you and this admission indicates that they were conducting retail sales so on the face of it, they need to collect the sales tax.

NC's law regarding sales tax on animals is interesting and I can understand why she would have been confused if she'd purchased other animals in-state and not paid sales tax on them.
http://www.dornc.com/practitioner/sales/bulletins/section58.pdf

58-24 ANIMALS AND ANIMAL CAGES
A. Purchases of animals from a commercial animal breeder or producer by manufacturers, research laboratories, other businesses or individuals are exempt from tax.

As a rescue CCSB is not a commercial organization so it looks like it has to collect and remit sales tax. If the OP had purchased the critter from a commercial breeder then no tax would have been due.

 

[chastityx]

You hand picked this animal and didn't notice ANY of these issues that were apparently so worrying you drove straight to the vets? Also why are antibiotics not listed on your receipt? You want him to pay for a vet visit that gave you a typical dewormer without a fecal and calcium + refund you in full for the animal?

 

[Snake-Queen]

Just a note ... CCSB is not a 501c3 non-profit.

 

[bcr229]

Just a note ... CCSB is not a 501c3 non-profit.

Are you sure? This is from the NC Secretary of State business registry:

 

[Fangthane]

Are you sure? This is from the NC Secretary of State business registry:

It would be interesting to know exactly when they became a legit non-profit. As of This Thread, they were throwing around claims regarding their legitimacy that they steadfastly refused to substantiate. At that time, I couldn't find any record of them being a real non-profit. CCSB definitely didn't come across to me as being particularly reputable to me.

 

[Snake-Queen]

Are you sure? This is from the NC Secretary of State business registry:

501c type
Non tax exempt, means they pay taxes.

They also collect sales tax, which a rescue would not do.

 

[Snake-Queen]

501c type
Non tax exempt, means they pay taxes.

They also collect sales tax, which a rescue would not do.

It's a CSL exemption, not 501c3 tax exempt ... it just means they can solicit donations that are not tax exempt.