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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy Alex Estrada - Imperial Geckos misrepresented tortoises for sale

Jason,

Thanks for your input and interest in this issue.

The seller has not responded to me since August 29th (though he is on line today and has been numerous times since then).
Paypal is reviewing the claim (on one payment - I bought and paid for the first tortoise posted, then found out about the second one on a phone call with Alex so I paid for that one separately).

So, paypal has up to 30 days to make a determination.
 
Is the tortoise still in your possession? I am assuming it is. In order for a refund to this kind of a dispute to be resolved in your favor, the tortoise would have to have been returned.

Since that is not the case, PayPal cannot debit the account of Imperial and still allow the tortoise to be in your control. At that point you will have gotten your money back and still have the tortoise. The system does not work that way ! I am curious how this transaction effects his attempt to sell other items, with this kind of a policy. Please keep us informed.
 
Bryan S said:
I see some new ads from the seller, anything new?
Click to expand...

Hey Brian,

Paypal has requested documentation from a licensed vet to prove they are not as described. I have an appointment for next Friday to take them in and get a positive ID and the documentation to prove it.
I did point paypal to this discussion as well as one of the for sale posts, but they insisted on vet documentation. I am a bit irritated with it, theoretically I could spend money for the vet visit and still not win the case.... I will do it just to see this through - of course with the hope of winning.

Thanks for your concern!
 
KNOBTAIL said:
Is the tortoise still in your possession? I am assuming it is. In order for a refund to this kind of a dispute to be resolved in your favor, the tortoise would have to have been returned.

Since that is not the case, PayPal cannot debit the account of Imperial and still allow the tortoise to be in your control. At that point you will have gotten your money back and still have the tortoise. The system does not work that way ! I am curious how this transaction effects his attempt to sell other items, with this kind of a policy. Please keep us informed.
Click to expand...



Yes, I do still have the tortoises. He would not agree to take them back so I did not ship them back.
The way paypal has worked for me in the past, should they rule in my favor, they will order them returned (and require proof of delivery) before they would refund the money.

One more bright spot to having to take them to the vet is they will get a checkup so their condition will be verified before shipping out ( so he can't make some absurd claim).

Nothing prevents him from continuing to sell on line; however this forum (all threads and posts) stay here forever for people to see. So far we have over 80 posts and almost 8,000 views, so people are seeing the effects of this transaction, and his unwillingness to make it right.

I thank everyone who has commented and lent their expertise on this issue. I will continue to update, and will let you know what the vet says and the outcome of the paypal dispute.

Thanks!
 
marku1999 said:
Hey Brian,

Paypal has requested documentation from a licensed vet to prove they are not as described. I have an appointment for next Friday to take them in and get a positive ID and the documentation to prove it.
I did point paypal to this discussion as well as one of the for sale posts, but they insisted on vet documentation. I am a bit irritated with it, theoretically I could spend money for the vet visit and still not win the case.... I will do it just to see this through - of course with the hope of winning.

Thanks for your concern!
Click to expand...

I hope that the vet is well versed in Carbonaria variants. I would not expect a random vet to be a authority on redfoot variants. You may want to double down by bringing them some literature ie. the book South American tortoises which has pics of a lot of Brazilian Carbonaria in it.
 
Bryan S said:
I hope that the vet is well versed in Carbonaria variants. I would not expect a random vet to be a authority on redfoot variants. You may want to double down by bringing them some literature ie. the book South American tortoises which has pics of a lot of Brazilian Carbonaria in it.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the suggestion! I agree that the vet may not be able to id with certainty and do plan to bring documentation with me.
 
Mark, " should they rule in my favor, they will order them returned (and require proof of delivery) before they would refund the money. " I dont think would work to well for you and the tortoise considering that there is no obligation to take it back.Imperial cannot be forced even if the transaction occurred in there premise. Civil remedies are time consuming and can get costly... What if you sent the tortoise back and the package was refused ! Its a no win situation. Just curious, why have you not instituted a chargeback through your credit card company that was backed by PayPal.

More than likely PayPal when all is said and done, PayPal will tell you to file through your own credit card company. That was the problem i encountered when i had the same issue with Apple.

Assuming the vet agreed with you, its an unenforceable return.

There are so many variants to this issue as Imperial could say what they shipped you is not the tortoise that you are looking to send back. That the sale was final, That there return policy requires you to pay all shipping expenses, on and on. That the vet is not qualified to make that kind of a determination.

More importantly, Mark, you should consider your next step if the notification from PayPal comes back and is not in your favor. Try to resell it , get the most out of it and move on.

There are some very good people out there who have some nice Cherrys and i would be more than happy to assist in making some contact. JERRY
 
KNOBTAIL said:
Mark, " should they rule in my favor, they will order them returned (and require proof of delivery) before they would refund the money. " I dont think would work to well for you and the tortoise considering that there is no obligation to take it back.Imperial cannot be forced even if the transaction occurred in there premise. Civil remedies are time consuming and can get costly... What if you sent the tortoise back and the package was refused ! Its a no win situation. Just curious, why have you not instituted a chargeback through your credit card company that was backed by PayPal.

More than likely PayPal when all is said and done, PayPal will tell you to file through your own credit card company. That was the problem i encountered when i had the same issue with Apple.

Assuming the vet agreed with you, its an unenforceable return.

There are so many variants to this issue as Imperial could say what they shipped you is not the tortoise that you are looking to send back. That the sale was final, That there return policy requires you to pay all shipping expenses, on and on. That the vet is not qualified to make that kind of a determination.

More importantly, Mark, you should consider your next step if the notification from PayPal comes back and is not in your favor. Try to resell it , get the most out of it and move on.

There are some very good people out there who have some nice Cherrys and i would be more than happy to assist in making some contact. JERRY
Click to expand...


Thanks, I appreciate all the advice. If paypal finds in my favor I will return them (and take photos and or video of them being packed). If they don not, I will likely do as you suggested and offer them for sale. They are gorgeous animals and are eating / drinking as they should. At this point I want to be done with the whole ordeal, hopefully it can be resolved week after next.

Again, thanks for all the input!
 
As of the time of this post, over 8,000 views for this thread. You have been screwed over Mark, but it will be a one time deal with this seller, he will have lost and will continue to lose numerous potential buyers because of this ordeal.
 
You can always post a for sale ad stating where they came from and WHY it is you are reselling them... lots of agrivation and lost business for a few bucks on the sellers part imo.
 
Here is the latest

I had a vet appt scheduled for October 6th to take the tortoises in for a positive ID (as proof for paypal that they were not as described).

On October 3rd I got a message from paypal that they had decided in my favor with the steps to resolution (return of the animals).

So, I informed the vets office I did not need the appointment.
I notified the seller and returned the animals.
Within a few days Paypal refunded my money (less shipping charges).

I would not count on this happening again with paypal. I have had far more egregious transactions in the past where paypal did not find in my favor (including one where nothing was ever sent to me and paypal still did not find in my favor), but in this particular case it turned out to be a help (though I lost on shipping I do consider it a victory).


Thanks to all for your help and support throughout the ordeal.
I hope this thread will act as a warning to others about buying from this seller (who now has the red foots back so they may end up listed here again).
 
I am glad to read PayPal decided in your favor, Mark.

A shame that it took PayPal to do that when the seller could have taken responsibility for his mislabeling. At this point, he has been well informed on what does and does not constitute a cherryhead and what does and does not constitute a hypo, so there appears to no adequate justification.
 
Very surprised, and happy for you. PayPal, has no love for the pet industry disputes(on living materials). Most of the time they will decline and refer to the card comany who backs up PayPal when making a purchase. Imperial is left with a permanent scar that will be quite visible here. I see they are still advertising . Buyer beware. Congratulations again.
 
nickolasanastasiou said:
At this point, he has been well informed on what does and does not constitute a cherryhead and what does and does not constitute a hypo, so there appears to no adequate justification.
Click to expand...

*shrug*
 

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Yikes, I guess on the bright side there's not the Brazilian Cherryhead lie in that ad just the the Ivory or Hypo part. I guess it's too hard to say "super cool looking redfoots" because it won't return the same price.

For sale, a 1970 Chevy Chevelle SS big block. Thanks for the payment, now here's the Ford Pinto that you paid for......
 
Bryan S said:
Yikes, I guess on the bright side there's not the Brazilian Cherryhead lie in that ad just the the Ivory or Hypo part. I guess it's too hard to say "super cool looking redfoots" because it won't return the same price.

For sale, a 1970 Chevy Chevelle SS big block. Thanks for the payment, now here's the Ford Pinto that you paid for......
Click to expand...

There is.
 
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