Bad Guy Alex Estrada - Imperial Geckos misrepresented tortoises for sale

[turtletary]

Nick.. how's this for a "Black-Cherry"?

 

[turtletary]

That first one was not the pic I accessed.. maybe this one -

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

This is about the dispute between the seller and buyer. My examples were for illustrative references for the sake of those unfamiliar with the Brazilian carbonaria locality and the hypo morph since those were what were involved in the labeling discrepancy. I only posted photos for that on-topic reason and it is not an ID thread beyond the core of the disagreement between the parties.

Images on the BOI, hopefully to be used as evidence or support in a discussion regarding the parties involved, need to be attached via the forum's attachment function.

 

[Shaun Roberson]

In fairness to the seller, the only justification the seller is giving is that basically the person he got them from told him they were Brazilians,so they must be. So, it is possible he was misled and is not the one doing the intentional misleading, but that doesn't change what they are, which is a common(even if not the most common) phenotype of hatchling Northerns.

It is an unfortunate naming convention as Nick mentioned; having an all red head is neither a sufficient nor even a necessary condition to be a "cherryhead".

 

[Herpin Man]

Since the seller states that he bought them as hypo or hypo looking cherry heads from a reputable distributor, perhaps it would be useful for all concerned if he would provide supporting documentation to that effect. If I were the seller, I would think that such documentation would support my case.
I have bought from Alex before, and he seems like a nice guy. I think he is a young guy trying to build his business and reputation, and I sincerely hope that he succeeds. With that in mind, I hope that he will either provide documentation as to the origin/lineage of these animals, or refund the customer and take them back.
I know policy is policy, but a little flexibility in working with the customer usually provides a much greater long term benefit than the short term benefit of a single transaction.

 

[Lucille]

Since the seller states that he bought them as hypo or hypo looking cherry heads from a reputable distributor, perhaps it would be useful for all concerned if he would provide supporting documentation to that effect. If I were the seller, I would think that such documentation would support my case.
I have bought from Alex before, and he seems like a nice guy. I think he is a young guy trying to build his business and reputation, and I sincerely hope that he succeeds. With that in mind, I hope that he will either provide documentation as to the origin/lineage of these animals, or refund the customer and take them back.
I know policy is policy, but a little flexibility in working with the customer usually provides a much greater long term benefit than the short term benefit of a single transaction.

I think if a customer says a critter is mislabelled, the seller should investigate and not chalk the issue up to buyer's remorse without further looking into the issue.
There are some areas where fraudulent labelling is rampant, fine art for instance, or expensive imported clothing. A seller accused of selling fakes has his reputation on the line and can't just say that he was told the item was genuine.

 

[Snake-Queen]

I think he is a young guy trying to build his business and reputation,

Flexibility is the key to building a good reputation. Just stating it is not our policy to accept returns is not going to help build his reputation, especially since the tortoises were mislabeled.

OP, how did you pay?

 

[turtletary]

Hopefully these examples also won't get deleted - showing "NOSES" and "CARAPACE" and "PLASTRON" of hatchling Brazilian Redfoots -

 

[Bryan S]

You too Bryan.. thanks - and Carl..

Yes I do. As Nickolas said, we have well established photos of what Brazilians and hypo's look like. It's possible that the seller is innocent here because either the seller was sold a bill of goods by the person that he got them from or he is unsure of the difference between different locales of Carbonaria. Either way,the buyer should not be stuck with these animals when he is sure that they are not what they were sold as. Had they been Brazilian hypo's there would've been another "0" on the end of the price tag. I hope that the seller reconsiders his position, has these animals sent back to him and simply sells them as "high color" redfoots. Mistakes happen, we are all human and he would not be the first or last person to sell non Brazilian animals as Cherryheads, but there needs to be accountability somewhere along the line here.

 

[tlmoon]

Hmmm, I hope that the seller does the right thing and refunds the buyer. It seems pretty clear these were misrepresented.

UNknowingly misrepresenting the animals can happen, and as Nick pointed out a quick refund and acknowledgement of the mistake could fix this red flag against the seller. I'm sure these mistakes happen, but it's how you fix it that matters.

Refusing to accept reality and repeating the bit about a policy against refunds - pretty questionable tactics by the seller and one I would probably avoid doing any business with this seller (kind of ironic to have a policy against refunds but not about misrepresenting animals). Other people shouldn't have to pay the price for another person's ignorance about the animal in question.

KNOWINGLY misrepresenting animals is scammer territory and I hope the seller is not in this third category. Time will tell, I suppose.

 

[bklynsfinest312]

IMO i do not believe he misrepresented them on purpose. But with that being said if a refund has not been issued yet it makes the seller seem sketchy. Especially because it has been clearly pointed out these are not cherry heads. Advice to the seller do not let this ruin your reputation just refund the customer and apologize for the confusion.

 

[marku1999]

IMO i do not believe he misrepresented them on purpose. But with that being said if a refund has not been issued yet it makes the seller seem sketchy. Especially because it has been clearly pointed out these are not cherry heads. Advice to the seller do not let this ruin your reputation just refund the customer and apologize for the confusion.

I pm'd the seller this message last night
"
I am pretty sure you have seen the thread on the BOI, but it is located here
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=631872

Based on the consensus of the thread, they are NOT cherry heads. Are you willing to work on a resolution yet? "



Unfortunately, the seller has not issued a refund or even responded to me.
Based on his statement that he bought them as cherry heads I assumed he would contact his distributor today (that is just an assumption, I have not received any communication from him since this thread was posted).

 

[Lucille]

or even responded to me.

And that is what people will see when they read this thread. An accidental misrepresentation is one thing. But poor communication translates into poor customer service, and people will see that if they deal with this seller and there is an issue, he may handle it this way for them too.

 

[turtletary]

This is about the dispute between the seller and buyer. My examples were for illustrative references for the sake of those unfamiliar with the Brazilian carbonaria locality and the hypo morph since those were what were involved in the labeling discrepancy. I only posted photos for that on-topic reason and it is not an ID thread beyond the core of the disagreement between the parties.

Images on the BOI, hopefully to be used as evidence or support in a discussion regarding the parties involved, need to be attached via the forum's attachment function.

That's exactly what I was attempting to show Nick - examples of 'morphs' from otherwise "normal" parents. Those 'morphs' hatched among clutches of others that look normal - regardless they still look notably Brazilian!

It was all I could do to even find this BOI [ was sent a link ] let alone attach the pics using this software.. not friendly for me anyway - I apologize everyone.

 

[bklynsfinest312]

Doesnt make any sense all he is doing is digging himself a deeper hole by not answering or giving you a refund.

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

 

[Snake-Queen]

The longer the seller avoids this thread, regardless of his opinion on the tortoises, the more he appears sketchy.

If he bought them as cherryheads and just went on what they were sold to him as, he should state that here.

It is very obvious, even to me (a novice in torts) that the ones the OP received are not cherryheads.

 

[nicksgrl26]

I have bought a blue tongue skink from him and he sent me pics and answered all my questions pretty quickly when I asked. The sale went well and he was very responsive. He even guaranteed his guess on the sex even though it was only behavioral observations or he would replace her with her confirmed sister. Above and beyond really in the BTS world.

There has been a super nasty hurricane in the past week (and it sucked, I was in the middle of it) but maybe that has something to do with his sluggish replies. I don't know if it did effect him (or a relative since he's not actually in tx) or not, but I'd probably allow a tiny bit of leeway this week.

On a side note, my whole transaction was done over messenger on his facebook business page, Imperial Reptiles and Exotics, so it may be easier to get a hold of him there.

As for this problem, it seems to have been proven that its not a cherry head by some knowledgeable tortoise people on here, so I think he deserves a refund. I hope everything works out well for both parties.

 

[Beyond GenetiX]

I would agree with a little leeway except for the fact he is posting ads on here continually and he knows about this thread.

 

[marku1999]

He is actually viewing the thread right now!
Please scroll all the way down (past my reply windows where you see my typed reply), Imperial geckos is the 4th name listed from the left. He is well aware of this thread and has been on here multiple times since it was posted.

 

[nicksgrl26]

I didn't realize he was posting ads when I made the post. I guess I may be projecting some of my issues from this weekend. I probably also give the benefit of the doubt a little too often sometimes.

I still had a good transaction with him though, I hope he comes on to tell his side of the story and everything gets worked out.