Bad Guy Kameron White

[Stephenson8011]

So by your logic kw18; I should be able to go to any store and buy anything I want. Then I can claim that it’s not what I ordered and demand that any random passerby refund my money just in case the original store won’t give me a refund.

I would be surprised if you had credibility with anyone after a statement like that, all of the rest of your incoherent ramblings and mud throwing is just icing on the cake.

 

[tlmoon]

Kameron, I'm not going to call you a liar. It seems to me that you probably really truly believe what you're saying. But I think your perceptions are distorted by the frustration of the situation. Example: saying that tyjohn insisted on friends and family. The posts show that you brought that up, in order to get a lower price. Later, tyjohn says something about "isn't it 'discreet' paypal" but the context of that is that he had agreed to that to accomodate you wanting a lower price. If you had said, let me add 3% (or whatever PP charges) to the $900 and we'll do regular "invoice" paypal, I bet tyjohn would have agreed.

Do you see how this looks from the outside? You're certain he forced you to pay F&F, but it doesn't look that way to anyone else. I get that you feel you have been wronged, but I think you are rationalizing some of this other stuff due to that belief.

I am not at all sure you can do a "chargeback" on this and I think you are trying to push tyjohn into doing what you want by threatening that. You paid friends and family, got an iguana, and didn't use a credit card. I don't think you are going to get anything back from your bank. You willing sent a payment for goods that you received. Filing some kind of statement that someone used your account would be fraud. On your part. PP will not help you due to the misuse of friends and family.

I find it somewhat unlikely that tyjohn, if he had purposefully misrepresented the animal, would post a BOI thread about you. Obviously that would open the situation to all this scrutiny. Why would he invite that?

 

[kw18]

Why does this continuely go back to the money? There are 24 pages of me repeating myself here about the payment and PayPal and credit card etc... I’m sure I’ve made a few mistakes explaining this whole story more than once (about payment etc) none of which got us here to this point... What got us here ladies and gentleman is the fact he sent a different iguana Than I paid for. The pictures clearly show he sent the wrong iguana. Multiple people have agreed, went back on there original opinions and even took the time to point it out to all of you select few by drawing it up on the pictures I supplied . And if he did it by mistake... a simple “oops my bad” would have sufficed and we would have figured it out like grown men. Easy day.

Keep bringing up the money and any and all mistakes you guys feel I made handling the situation and we’ll keep going in circles.. none of that can be changed. I’m not sitting here crying about how I didn’t pay via PayPal invoice or this way or that way So why is everyone else? Really? Why are you select few so hopped up on this ? It’s not the reason we are here haha so I’m completely confused

 

[Akiranar]

Why does this continuely go back to the money?

Because you currently have an animal you paid for, and $100 that is rightfully the OP's.

There are 24 pages of me repeating myself here about the payment and PayPal and credit card etc... I’m sure I’ve made a few mistakes explaining this whole story more than once (about payment etc) none of which got us here to this point...

No. The point is, you have an animal you paid for. You also have $100 that is rightfully the OP's at this point. Either send the animal back, or return the $100. That's it.

No matter how much you spam the thread with cries of different animal, and show pictures of an animal, the facts are that you have an animal you paid for, and $100 that belongs to the OP.

What got us here ladies and gentleman is the fact he sent a different iguana Than I paid for.

Then send the animal back and get a full refund. Right now you have the Animal and $100. You also threatened a charge back that would leave you with the animal and the full amount. That does not make me look favorable on you at all.

The pictures clearly show he sent the wrong iguana. Multiple people have agreed, went back on there original opinions and even took the time to point it out to all of you select few by drawing it up on the pictures I supplied . And if he did it by mistake... a simple “oops my bad” would have sufficed and we would have figured it out like grown men. Easy day.

And yet, here you are, with the animal and $100 of his money. Either send it back and get a full refund, or give the $100 back and move on with your life.

The more you scream about wrong animal without doing anything to deal with it, just makes you look worse. You seem think that you should be exempt to the rules of retail and exchange makes me think you just want your cake and eat it too.

A few years ago I got an iPhone 8, then I got screwed over, and learned I didn't have the money to afford it, I was in the 14 day window to get a refund, but to do so, I needed to return the phone. This is the same idea. You want a refund, you need to return the animal first.

Keep bringing up the money and any and all mistakes you guys feel I made handling the situation and we’ll keep going in circles.. none of that can be changed.

Because you're too stubborn to admit that you want to be treated special and refuse to return the animal or the money, which makes you a bad guy in my eyes.

I’m not sitting here crying about how I didn’t pay via PayPal invoice or this way or that way So why is everyone else? Really? Why are you select few so hopped up on this ? It’s not the reason we are here haha so I’m completely confused

We're here because you have an animal that you paid for, and $100 of the person's money. You need to return one, or the other. Simple as that.

Whether the animal is the correct one or not is semantics. What is a fact is that you have said animal and $100.

Return one, or the other, that is the solution to the problem. Not telling us to put the money forward, not telling us it is the wrong animal.

If it is the wrong animal as you claim, return it and get a full refund.

If you are keeping the animal, then give TyJohn the $100 back ASAP.

That's it.

You don't like me repeating myself? Do one or the other. Stop making excuses and trying to get your cake and eat it too.

 

[kw18]

Ok let’s end this right here right now.

I have zero trust in this guy to do the right thing (hence me telling ppl to put there money where there mouth is ) is not your money SO it’s very easy to sit here and tell me what I Need to do and why... Very easy

I’m done with this thread if tyjohn can’t do like all these other members suggested and come to terms on an equal playing field ( I said I’d happily return) (and I called him out today asking if he’d entertain any of the terms/ideas other memebers suggested ) (very fair way to end this all) if not..then I’ll keep the iguana and the 100$. He Knowingly sent me the wrong iguana end of story. I have zero reason to trust someone after they knowingly do this.

That’s right you heard me I’ll keep the iguana and the 100$. End of thread.

 

[Akiranar]

Ok let’s end this right here right now.

I have zero trust in this guy to do the right thing (hence me telling ppl to put there money where there mouth is ) is not your money SO it’s very easy to sit here and tell me what I Need to do and why... Very easy

It's not your money either if you are keeping the animal. It is TyJohn's and so far I have way more trust in him than I do in you.

I’m done with this thread

You've said that a few times now.

if tyjohn can’t do like all these other members suggested and come to terms on an equal playing field ( I said I’d happily return) (and I called him out today asking if he’d entertain any of the terms/ideas other memebers suggested ) (very fair way to end this all) if not..then I’ll keep the iguana and the 100$. He Knowingly sent me the wrong iguana end of story. I have zero reason to trust someone after they knowingly do this.

You claim he's sent you the wrong Iguana. Some people, one who I don't have a high opinion of, backs you up. Ty claims it was the only one he had. Also, your claim of him making you pay friends and family, have been proven false with your own pictures. So, I have no trust in you.

You claiming that you will keep the Iguana and the $100 shows that this bad guy claim on you is warranted.

That’s right you heard me I’ll keep the iguana and the 100$. End of thread.

So, you're admitting that you are now stealing from TyJohn. Okay. Good to know. No one should ever deal with you if this is how you behave.

 

[Insomniac101]

That’s right you heard me I’ll keep the iguana and the 100$. End of thread.

You've sealed your fate in this community. Anyone reading this thread (which is permanent) will most likely refuse to deal with you.

Kathy

 

[3240]

Because you currently have an animal you paid for, and $100 that is rightfully the OP's.



No. The point is, you have an animal you paid for. You also have $100 that is rightfully the OP's at this point. Either send the animal back, or return the $100. That's it.

No matter how much you spam the thread with cries of different animal, and show pictures of an animal, the facts are that you have an animal you paid for, and $100 that belongs to the OP.



Then send the animal back and get a full refund. Right now you have the Animal and $100. You also threatened a charge back that would leave you with the animal and the full amount. That does not make me look favorable on you at all.



And yet, here you are, with the animal and $100 of his money. Either send it back and get a full refund, or give the $100 back and move on with your life.

The more you scream about wrong animal without doing anything to deal with it, just makes you look worse. You seem think that you should be exempt to the rules of retail and exchange makes me think you just want your cake and eat it too.

A few years ago I got an iPhone 8, then I got screwed over, and learned I didn't have the money to afford it, I was in the 14 day window to get a refund, but to do so, I needed to return the phone. This is the same idea. You want a refund, you need to return the animal first.



Because you're too stubborn to admit that you want to be treated special and refuse to return the animal or the money, which makes you a bad guy in my eyes.



We're here because you have an animal that you paid for, and $100 of the person's money. You need to return one, or the other. Simple as that.

Whether the animal is the correct one or not is semantics. What is a fact is that you have said animal and $100.

Return one, or the other, that is the solution to the problem. Not telling us to put the money forward, not telling us it is the wrong animal.

If it is the wrong animal as you claim, return it and get a full refund.

If you are keeping the animal, then give TyJohn the $100 back ASAP.

That's it.

You don't like me repeating myself? Do one or the other. Stop making excuses and trying to get your cake and eat it too.

Mandi,

Just so I understand. Let's say I posted a lizard for sale with pictures. You decided you liked the animal pictured and sent me $900. (I know Mandi, it would never happen because I associate with bad guys.) I take your $900 and send you an animal that is not the one pictured in the ad. In other words, you've been burned. After all of this you would trust me to refund your $900 after sending the animal back?

 

[Bobby Douglass]

My conclusion is that neither the buyer or the seller should be trusted.

 

[Akiranar]

Mandi,

Just so I understand. Let's say I posted a lizard for sale with pictures. You decided you liked the animal pictured and sent me $900. (I know Mandi, it would never happen because I associate with bad guys.) I take your $900 and send you an animal that is not the one pictured in the ad. In other words, you've been burned. After all of this you would trust me to refund your $900 after sending the animal back?

Being that I've seen your siding with someone who would not honor their deals, and that you have specifically asked me to place you on my "Do not deal with list" I would never give you $900 for any animal you had.

You already burned your bridges with me, and I would never trust you with a cent of mine.

But that is no longer here or there since Kameron has already admitted that he's going to keep the iguana and the $100. So he has stolen from TyJohn. And you seem to be okay with that.

Not only is Kameron a bad guy, but you are also in my eyes.

 

[3240]

Being that I've seen your siding with someone who would not honor their deals, and that you have specifically asked me to place you on my "Do not deal with list" I would never give you $900 for any animal you had.

You already burned your bridges with me, and I would never trust you with a cent of mine.

But that is no longer here or there since Kameron has already admitted that he's going to keep the iguana and the $100. So he has stolen from TyJohn. And you seem to be okay with that.

Not only is Kameron a bad guy, but you are also in my eyes.

You’ve busted me Mandi. I am a bad guy, kind of a super villian actually. I’ve been in the industry for 30 years breeding and selling some pretty unique animals. Over the course of these years can you imagine all of the bad guy stuff that I’ve done!?!? You should do a search and really dig up some dirt on me. Can you imagine what you’ll find from this bad guy who’s been around the hobby for 30 years? I bet there’s some epic bad guy stuff. You should also list the known bad guys that I associate with. I mean seriously, warn the community!

 

[Akiranar]

You’ve busted me Mandi. I am a bad guy, kind of a super villian actually. I’ve been in the industry for 30 years breeding and selling some pretty unique animals. Over the course of these years can you imagine all of the bad guy stuff that I’ve done!?!? You should do a search and really dig up some dirt on me. Can you imagine what you’ll find from this bad guy who’s been around the hobby for 30 years? I bet there’s some epic bad guy stuff. You should also list the known bad guys that I associate with. I mean seriously, warn the community!

The community can see for themselves when you defend bad guys. I'm just telling it like it is. There is a thread on the front page that has over 2,000 posts where you defend the bad guy in it.

But this isn't about you. It's about Kameron, who has admitted that he is keeping the iguana and the money. He's earned his bad guy title. Why defend him when he's admitted that he's going to keep the animal and the money? Because it might not be the animal he wanted? Then send it back, or send the money back. He can't keep both.

 

[WebSlave]

Oh man..... What a mess. I saw this thread moving along at a rapid pace so decided to look into it to see what was going on. And honestly reading through it, I became disoriented about what photos included were of what animals. The crux of the matter appears to be that kw18 is claiming that tyjohnko sent him an animal that is not what was pictured in the advertising copy that the animal was sold from.

Then the secondary issue is that tyjohnko sent kw18 a partial refund of $100 which was supposed to be a good faith gesture (and pay for return shipping?) with the understanding that once the animal was received by tyjohnko, then a full refund would be processed and the matter concluded.

tyjohnko appears to be standing behind the customary policy of nearly every reptile breeder, middle man, or end user retail shop I know of that requires that the merchandise be returned before issuing a full refund.

Apparently kw18 has come to not trust tyjohnko to issue the remainder of the refund after he had sent the animal back to tyjohnko.

So now tyjohnko has $800 of kw18's and kw18 has the animal and $100 of the original $900 he paid for that animal.

So am I on the beam with this so far?

Assuming I am not missing something else, I figured I would look at the first issue and base my opinion of the "legitimacy" of the claim that the animal received is different from the animal that was received by comparing photos of what was advertised for sale, and what was actually received. This will have to be done in several posts because of the limitations of uploading images to an individual post, unfortunately.

So first I will upload the images that are supposed to be of the animal that was being offered for sale. The first two are directly from the ad by tyjohnko, and the third is (if I remember correctly) another photo of the same offered animal that was sent to kw18 by tyjohnko.

 

[WebSlave]

There are six significant photos by kw18 that I will now include, but with the limitation of only 4 attachments per post, only four will be included here, with the remaining two in the following post.

 

[WebSlave]

And now the last two photos from kw18 of the six total I reviewed.

 

[3240]

The community can see for themselves when you defend bad guys. I'm just telling it like it is. There is a thread on the front page that has over 2,000 posts where you defend the bad guy in it.

But this isn't about you. It's about Kameron, who has admitted that he is keeping the iguana and the money. He's earned his bad guy title. Why defend him when he's admitted that he's going to keep the animal and the money? Because it might not be the animal he wanted? Then send it back, or send the money back. He can't keep both.

Actually Mandi, you've made it about me. Who's the bad guy that you're referring to? Ty Park??? I've known Ty Park for 25 years. I like Ty Park, always have. I liked him before he became known in the industry and I still like him. Do you think one thread on fauna is going to change the way that I feel about someone I've known for 25 years? You can call me whatever the hell you want. I like this hobby and have met some great people in this hobby, people I consider friends. Over 30 years I've developed a good reputation, helped a lot of people, and you will not find one single complaint about me.

I don't know Kameron but, in my opinion, he was burned. You didn't answer my question so I'll ask it again. If I sent you an animal that was different from the one in my ad would you trust me enough to send you a refund after I ship the animal back to you?

 

[3240]

Webslave, those photos really help. They appear to me to be different iguanas.

 

[WebSlave]

Now I will admit that I know next to nothing about these iguanas but I think over the years from observing miniscule differences in colors and patterns of baby corn snakes, I should be able to review such pics and make a reasoned determination of whether or not the pics of the animal from tyjohnko says he was going to sell to kw18 match the pics of the animal that kw18 says he received and provided pics of. I am assuming that the patterns of the animals pictured could not have changed dramatically enough to be influential in changing how that animal looks now compared to how it looked when the ad offering that animal for sale was posted back on 11/25/2017.

In my opinion, they are not the same animal. I say this because in my opinion the dorsal pattern on the left side of the back is different, as are the markings on the visible portion of the left rear leg. Also, in my opinion, the dorsal pattern at the base of the tail is also different between the two pictured animals.

Again, my opinion is based solely on my viewing and reviewing the photos provided as evidence by both parties and scrutinized as best I could for such details that appear to be pertinent to make such a determination. I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN THESE ANIMALS. I am only basing my opinion on what I can see with my own two eyes.

As for the second issue about the $100 dispute, I don't think this can be resolved at all at this point in any manner that would satisfy either party. kw18 appears to have reasonable grounds to distrust tyjohnko because to him, too, it appears he was not sent the animal that was being offered for sale in the photos provided. tyjohnko appears to have reasonable grounds to distrust kw18 because of his earlier claims about disputing the credit card payment (which turned out to be untrue) and the claim that he would do so while keeping the animal in question too. So my opinion is that both parties are deadlocked at this point.

To be honest, the only solution I can see at this point is for both parties to just cut their losses and get on with their lives. tyjohnko got $800 for an animal he wanted $900 for. kw18 got an animal for $800 that only he can come to grips with as to whether it is worth that much to him or not. I don't see either party breaking the stalemate at this point and capitulating in either direction. So I guess both parties can just lick their wounds and retreat from each other bearing scars, or keep on taking stabs at one another until both finally bleed to death in this thread.

Again, in my humble opinion.

 

[BlueCrowned]

Can I ask a question? This is probably a stupid question. I don't know a thing about iguanas, I am new to reptiles in general.

If the animal received and the one advertised are the same species and sex... why does it matter? At all? I am not a lizard person, but if someone showed me a normal corn snake and sent me one with a slightly different pattern, that was in good health and the same sex as advertised, I'm not sure I would really care. At all.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

One work of art is not necessarily an equal substitute for another work of art. One good friend is not necessarily an equal substitute for another good friend. One son or daughter for another son or daughter. Depending on your perspective, the individual can matter a little or it can matter a lot.

---

I would still like to see the images whose thumbnails are shown in post #5. They would not complete the picture, but they would be steps towards a more complete picture.

Also, it looks like there might be email chain gaps.

Either party could assist with these, yet neither has.