Bad Guy Kameron White

[Stephenson8011]

You can’t even prove the validity of your claims anyway. You specifically said that if the majority felt that you should return the $100 you would. Now you are saying that you are done here and you’re keeping the animal and the $100.

That in fact makes you a liar and a thief.

So you can post all the pics you want but you can’t prove that you are posting pictures of the actual animal in question. You have stated that you have several so you could be posting pics of one of the other ones you have. And you have shifted blame to the other side in the past where your own emails show that you were the one to suggest the “discreet” PayPal

No credibility at all

 

[Black Adder]

I would agree with Webslaves summary that they are different animals based on the pictures provided.
However to believe that truly we have to believe that the photos posted by Kameron are actually indeed the iguana that the op sent.
By Kamerons own admission he has "several" other similar animals.
With the posturing and deflection and attitude already displayed by Kameron how can we be sure that the pictures he has posted are correct?

Kameron has already stated categorically he is keeping the ops $100 and the iguana and to heck with what anybody else thinks

Fair enough, he has made his own bed and will now lie in it for a long while indeed.

 

[Lucille]

You can’t even prove the validity of your claims anyway. You specifically said that if the majority felt that you should return the $100 you would. Now you are saying that you are done here and you’re keeping the animal and the $100.

That in fact makes you a liar and a thief.

So you can post all the pics you want but you can’t prove that you are posting pictures of the actual animal in question. You have stated that you have several so you could be posting pics of one of the other ones you have. And you have shifted blame to the other side in the past where your own emails show that you were the one to suggest the “discreet” PayPal

No credibility at all

I agree. While much effort was put into analyzing the photos, that effort would be useful only if we are sure that the pictures that Kameron has furnished are indeed of the animal he received and not some other animal he or a friend might have.
Each person of course has to come to his/her own conclusions, but to me part of the credibility I might give to something offered with no definitive proof might reflect the general credibility of the offeror. In this case, after the shenanigans with the $100, I myself think that Kameron has very little credibility to me.

To be honest, the only solution I can see at this point is for both parties to just cut their losses and get on with their lives. tyjohnko got $800 for an animal he wanted $900 for. kw18 got an animal for $800 that only he can come to grips with as to whether it is worth that much to him or not.

I also think this is the only possible solution. For a while I thought that the 3rd party holding funds and distributing them might work, but if it was Kameron that pulled the bait and switch by offering pictures here of an animal different than was sent, and he tried to send the different one back for a refund, there would be a huge new set of difficulties.

 

[JCCS]

Rich, the only issue with your conclusion is trusting Kameron that the picture he posted is of the animal that John Tran sent. John, the only thing that changed your mind from the OP is this one photo. If you have a guy who has straight up said he had no issue stealing from the OP at the front of the thread and now is holding his $100 ransom and in essence, stealing it, do you seriously trust his word that the picture he posted is of the animal he received from the OP? Honestly, that cannot be known, but purely based on behavior on this thread, I would trust the OP a hell of a lot further than Kameron.

 

[Akiranar]

I don't know how fast Iguanas grow, but I want to add that Kameron seemed to have bought another one or two from this thread around the same time he might have gotten the one from TyJohn: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=640487 post number 8.

He does have several of these types of iguana, he could very well have used another for his pictures. We have no unboxing video. We just have each person's word, and Kameron has shown that his word is a crap and he has no problem stealing and lying.

 

[3240]

Can I ask a question? This is probably a stupid question. I don't know a thing about iguanas, I am new to reptiles in general.

If the animal received and the one advertised are the same species and sex... why does it matter? At all? I am not a lizard person, but if someone showed me a normal corn snake and sent me one with a slightly different pattern, that was in good health and the same sex as advertised, I'm not sure I would really care. At all.

Toby,

The Cyclura Lewisi that are available in the pet trade are hybrids. There’s a lot of variety in these hybrids and many people prefer animals that look closest to pure Lewisi.

 

[3240]

I don't know how fast Iguanas grow, but I want to add that Kameron seemed to have bought another one or two from this thread around the same time he might have gotten the one from TyJohn: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=640487 post number 8.

He does have several of these types of iguana, he could very well have used another for his pictures. We have no unboxing video. We just have each person's word, and Kameron has shown that his word is a crap and he has no problem stealing and lying.

The Lewisi in that ad appears to be younger than the one that Kameron is posting in pictures. Maybe he’ll post pictures of the one he bought from that seller next to the one that he bought from John?

 

[Black Adder]

The Lewisi in that ad appears to be younger than the one that Kameron is posting in pictures. Maybe he’ll post pictures of the one he bought from that seller next to the one that he bought from John?

I doubt he will as his last proclamation was that he was done with this and keeping the $100.

Of course NOBODY has ever said they were done and not made a reappearance........

 

[BlueCrowned]

Toby,

The Cyclura Lewisi that are available in the pet trade are hybrids. There’s a lot of variety in these hybrids and many people prefer animals that look closest to pure Lewisi.

Thanks, that makes more sense.

In that case I do agree that these animals look different, but still feel that Kameron needs to send the animal back before any further refund is issued.

 

[andradespb]

This chat is still going ......[emoji52]

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

 

[tlmoon]

I've tried to give Kameron the benefit of the doubt, but he seems unable to listen to reason. He's not answering questions and keeps deflecting with other things, and he has not really helped his case here. I think he may find it more difficult to buy the next iguana he absolutely has to have, if the seller looks at the BOI first and decides they don't want to deal with the hassle.

Conclusions made on the BOI are not always based on the exact details about a situation because we can't always know for sure what's going on. So character and temperament say a lot about a person, especially when the facts are fuzzy. Show a lack of both of these qualities and people may want to avoid doing business with you.

 

[Michael Brown]

I’ll toss my 0.02 in as well.

A. I agree with Webslave, totally a different animal imo

B. I feel a bit uncomfortable with KW18’s admission to STEAL the $100 and keep the animal

C. This bit of uncomfortableness leads me to believe that the real bait and switch may have been from KW18. Meaning, I believe he may have had a problem lewisi hybrid that looked close enough to OP’s one for sale so thought maybe he could pull the ole switcheroo and get a “better” less aggressive animal (by forcing a return and keeping OP’s).

D. When things went south, maybe KW18 decided to cut his losses and keep OP’s lewisi and his problem lewisi + $100.

E. Regardless, when all is said and done, I’d avoid them both.

 

[JCCS]

I still say the decision in whether the OP is to be avoided is completely based on how much you trust Kameron to not post pics of a different animal. Seeing as what he has displayed in this thread, I don't trust him in the least. I think the more likely scenario is that Kameron is using a different animal in the pic to scam the BOI and it's honestly disheartening to see how many people are willing to write off the OP's credibility on what is essentially the word of a guy who has admitted to seriously considering completely stealing the animal by falsely issuing a payback and who has admittedly kept $100 that is not his while not returning the animal he is complaining about so much.

 

[Maida]

Kameron certainly has trouble communicating eloquently. But does that alone really make him guilty of anything? I'm not saying he's definitely innocent, but he was understandably upset to find this thread here (wouldn't you be?).

At this point, I believe the matter has already been resolved as much as it can be. Kameron said he's fine with keeping the animal, and that was something he decided even before this thread was posted. At $800, it's still considerably more than I've seen similar Lewisi's going for. I was reluctant to post in this thread at all, because the format is quite odd to me. I have never before seen a merchant bashing one of their customers because the customer was unhappy with their product. I did, however, interrogate Kameron in private messages, which seems the only way to actually get him to respond to direct questions.

The photos: If Kameron's intention was to scam Tyjohn by posting pictures of a different animal, why would he wait until after Tyjohn created a thread about him? Logically, that doesn't make sense. If Kameron was actually that cunning, his first move would've been to create a thread damning Tyjohn with those photos, and then demanding ALL of his money back (without returning, which is the industry standard for SNAD cases, especially for PayPal). Despite posting numerous times in this thread, Tyjohn never disputed the photographic proof by saying Kameron took pictures of a different animal. If anything, he confirmed them by posting one of the same pictures, and stating Kameron sent it to him immediately after receiving the shipment.

The $100: The original agreement, as seen in emails, was for Tyjohn to refund $450 before Kameron would ship the animal back. Both parties agreed to this, and Tyjohn only sent the $100 after he abruptly changed his mind and refused the original deal. Kameron has not refunded the $100 because he's still waiting for the other $350 that was agreed upon. Normally, this would not be a typical return policy. However, in cases of bait-and-switch or SNAD, normal return policies do not apply.

I don't profess to know with certainty who is the innocent or guilty party here. I am simply saying it's important to look beyond how things are being said, and analyze what is being said -- along with the evidence.

Lastly, if Tyjohn is innocent, why was he so vague with the original photographs sent to Kameron? Why take ambiguous photos through a cage when he had better, clearer photographs of the animal? Also consider the "discreet" payment, and Kameron's trouble communicating. To me, Kameron looks much less like a cunning scammer, and more like an easy target.

 

[Lucille]

While John did not say Kameron was photographing a different animal, he immediately said that he thought Kameron was altering the photographs to make the critter appear different.
There is proof that immediately prior to the $450 deal Kameron had lied about his credit card payment and threatened John with a fake and fraudulent payment case which is difficult to fight.
It is possible that John then realized that no matter how much money he sent, he might not get anything back, and might well be out both partial refund and critter, which turned out to be the case. It seems somehow unfair that anyone would try to insist that John send the $450 after those threats, and not insist that Kameron send back the $100, which he has repeatedly promised and then disavowed his promise.


You may be right, and others have said the same, that the present status may have to be the resolution. That certainly does not preclude readers from judging each of the parties as far as future transactions go.

Kameron certainly has trouble communicating eloquently..

Your description of Kameron's inability to 'communicate eloquently' seems to be an attempt to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.
Just in this thread alone we have seen him be rude, threatening, lie repeatedly, dis the very site he is being given the privilege of using to present any facts tending to mitigate his atrocious behavior.

I sold a yearling lewisi hybrid to Kameron White from California with eamail [email protected] last month.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641602

After receive the animal he said that the iguana was not tamed and aggressive which i agreed and already told him before the deal was done.

After one hour he sent me an email said that the animal was not the same from my ad on Fauna. after a few explanation that i only have 1 iguana i tried to re home and it was the same one ( i sent him extra multiple pictures of the same iguana inside). I also gave the pictures that he took and claim it look different with my posted pics , and some good breeder said it represent the same iguana. But i know that it's hard to win this situation when he aldready had the igu and he can take pics and fix the pictures how he want. event inside and outside pictures will make same lewisi iguana look completely different. So i didn't want to keep argue with him about that. I told him " IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE IGUANA, SENT IT BACK I'LL REFUND YOU IN FULL " this is the fairest way that i know many big breeder will do in this situation.

From here he start to threaten me and try to get at much at he can from the deal. he threatened me that he'll dispute the money through his credit card company and also will keep the iguana. ( from this point i totally lost all of my trust in him)
Next he said he'll keep the iguana if i refund him $450. Of course i'll reject.
After so many back and forth i just tired to deal with this guy and have an agreement with this guy that I'll refund him $100 first , and then he sent me the igu and i'll refund the rest . And of course , just like i thought after he receive the $100 and didn't follow the agreement, he said he won't ship the animal until i refund him the rest of the money first. There is no way i'll do that after he threatened me that he'll dispute all money and also keep the iguana.
So now he had my iguana + my $100 and acting like he the one that got screw.
At this point i am just tired argue with him and don't event care that much. I already gave him a very reasonable way that every big breeder will agreed on " IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE IGUANA , SEND IT BACK I'LL REFUND YOU IN FULL ". he was the one who broke the deal, and after multiple times that he threatened me to dispute the money and keep the iguana.
i am sorry that my English is not perfect !