Info Keven Vogenberger, Keven2, questionable stock

[Snake-Queen]

See your just digging for stuff what I said is i have a friend that is a vet tech and she looks at my animals on the side. How else do you propose I care for my animals. Work a 40 he week job. No I sell reptiles to make money to care for them. What part dont you get. I'm not just some wealthy person I have to make money to help rescues. How is that not a logical thing to do. You are very strange. How do you think rescues work? They get donations to run. I do not get donations I work my butt off to be able to care for them.i don't buy nice stuff I buy crickets medicine and supplies. You say your doing this because you care about reptiles bull shit your doing this because this is what you do on here. This is exciting to you. You get off on this stuff! You are sick and need help! How many reptiles have you sold. How many do you care for every day? You have absolutely no idea what I'm about or you wouldn't do this kind of thing. That Veil might have looked bad but he eats and gets around as good as any veil. You haven't seen sick if you think That's sick. I've got some reptiles from people lately that make you want to cry. There's nothing that can be done except make them as comfortable as they can be until they pass. What are you doing for reptiles besides trolling fauna?? I know I do my part. I half way want to just have a ton of customers give details about there transactions with me. I answer questions at any time 3 or 4 am on a regular basis. I make 50.00 an animal and hold some for 3 months at a time most for a month or so after feeding and care how much do you think I make? Not a lot. You have no idea the lengths i go to to make sure i give 100 percent customer satisfactions because the rescues i have depend on me to make money for them.it really won't be hard to blow this thread up with satisfied customers customers. As much as I want to I dont know if i should subject anyone to this kind of bullying. Anything said you will find fault. People like you make me so disgusted you do things out of spite and not common sense. Common sense a guy takes care of a ton of dying reptiles let's make it harder for him because he mad me mad! Cause that's all this is you know I didn't know this was a Veil I can't prove it was taken to my friend a vet tech cause I won't put her out there but that's immaterial. Your saying I was trying to pass off a sick veil. You know that's not true. This is about your feelings and feeling of power. If Keven doesn't show vet papers!! Lucille will do this to him hu I'll show him how dare he do this to me. How dare he not show me what i want so i can try to torment someone poor girl that made a mistake! so Lucille feels better about herself. Anyway ive been up since 4am soaking sick animals went to bed last night at 2 after caring for reptiles all day. Thats just about my daily routine so when I don't get right back to your bullying on here that's why. Not cause I don't care to defend myself I honestly don't have the time!!!!!

I don't have the time right now to address all of your comments, but I will say a few things.

I've sold 1000's of reptiles, that I've bred, some I've bought. I've been doing this for 10+ years.

I used to take in rescues. Some have come in so bad, that euthanasia was the humane option. I decided that the cost and heartache was more than I could handle, so I stopped taking in new animals.

Having a vet tech friend is wonderful, but it is no substitute for a board certified exotic vet.

The truth is all I ask out of you.

 

[Keven2]

I have been taking care of rescues for a long time and I have no funding so a vet tech that knows something and is willing to help is better then having no help. Nobody can afford to take every rescue to a vet. The cost would make it impossible to run. Your 100 percent correct it's no substitute but it's better then nothing. I'm grateful to have her lend her help. She charges me nothing . The honest to God truth is we didn't know what kind of Cham it was she looked it up and because of the small crest and the way it looked she thought it was an old helmeted chameleon. I bought it for 100 to get it out of a bad situation. It eats drinks is fully alert fat fully hydrated in all aspects what appears healthy. Besides looks! I sold It to a guy for 15.00 by the way he offered the 15 I had told him he could have it if he was giving it a good home but he insisted on paying 15.00 to contribute. As soon as someone said something about the add I fired back because they weren't like hey just want to let you know that veil looks I'll. It was a full blown you shouldn't be selling reptiles your a lier I mean it hurt my feelings so I lashed back then it's gone from that to I don't care for my animals I'm this bad person. When all I do is care for animals. If I had funding I would not care what people think about me. When it comes down to it all that matters is the animals I help. I just rely on the sale of healthy reptiles to sustain the rescues. There was never any thought of trying to get over on anybody from me or my friend. I figured I'd put the helmeted. Cham up for 69 someone would offer me 20 or 30 bucks and it would find a home cause I just took in a panther with no tongue that needed a cage. I took huge bright pictures so everyone could see how he looked I wasn't trying to conceil anything. Also I took the add down immediately. I told the guy that bought it exactly what every one said was wrong with it. This is the honest to God's truth. I should not have lashed out but they came at me from all angles attacking me. I honestly wouldn't do This to someone I hate so why would I put my friend out there like that. She is a vet tech she does the best she can. The vet wanted 175.00 just to administer fluidsto a rhino iguana she did it for free and does stuff like that for me on a weekly basis. I'm very blessed to have her and we all makes mistakes but she does way more good for my reptiles then mistakes

 

[Lucille]

I initiated this thread as an information thread, having to do with the advertisement of an obviously sick looking veiled. However, during his posts in this thread, Keven has been caught in various untruths.

The only way out of this that I see for him is to lower the number of critters he has to a manageable quantity that he can afford to give good care to, and show by his future actions and sales what kind of seller he is.

However, because of what he has said and done not only concerning the veiled, but how he has handled that issue here, prospective buyers have every right to read this thread and make their own informed decisions, whatever those decisions may be.
They may go ahead and take a chance, they may take a 'wait and see' attitude, they may decline to buy, and that choice is up to them, but this thread definitely helps make their choice an informed choice.

 

[Keven2]

This thread was not started as information it was started cause you were upset and wanted to make me pay for lashing out at the people that first attacked me. Doing that I was wrong two wrongs don't make right. Yes let people make their decision off this cause I swear to not only give the absolute best customer service and 100 percent money back guarantee on the health of any animal I sell. Yes that includes me paying for shipping also but I will give an extra 20 percent off any add I have if you buy a reptile and mention this thread. I am 100 percent certain of my intentions when it comes to reptiles and I will do everything i can to make sure you get the healthiest animal that I can give! Anybody that wants to talk to me can call me anytime 7 days a week about my reptiles for sale or even if they have questions about reptiles they want to buy from someone else. I'm not very knowledgeable about chameleons or snakes but monitors uromastyx bearded dragons some geckos alotbof agamids and noles ive kept for over a decade and i will be more then happy to help in anyway at any time. Just so you don't have to look for my number it's 239-233-7585 I decided a long time ago that caring for reptiles and helping people learning about reptiles is all I want to do so it would be my pleasure to help anybody with any questions people might have and remember there is no stupid question if you don't know something you just don't know. So 20 percent off any animal if you mention this thread and anybody can call me anytime about any animal and I will do my absolute best to provide you with either my experience with them or a person that has experience with the animal. To the person that said I need to make sure all reptiles are labeled correctly. You are 100 percent right. 9 out of ten times it's that I can't see what picture I'm posting cause my phone won't blow up the pics for me to post ads and I put the wrong pic with a description. You are right tho that's something that should not happen but to say I'm just flipping reptiles not for my rescues sake please call me and I can send you pics of All the rescues that selling healthy reptiles pays for!Again mention this add 20 percent off any add by mentioning this thread and 100 percent health guarantee on arrival of Reptile. My phone is always on you can always reach me for any questions 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. Thank you and I hope you have a blessed day.

 

[Lucille]

This thread was not started as information .

This thread was indeed started as an info thread about the sick looking misidentified critter you advertised. You seem to not want to accept good advice about your poor behavior from many other people besides myself. I get the sense that you simply want all this erased, but that can't be, people will take into account your actions and untruths.

I think that turning this thread into an ad with a coupon is in extremely poor taste.

 

[Keven2]

What are you talking about I accepted the advice I told the guy exactly what was said about the veil that bought it. I admitted that I was wrong. I have definitely taken the advice and have learned a lot about veil chameleons from this. So what if you think it's poor taste that's your opinion and everyone has one. I think it makes sense cause I'm showing I'm willing to do whatever it takes to back up my claims. The more customers I get off of this the more I can have post their experience and the more I can show that I'm not the bad person you have made me to be. Let me ask you what you would do if I did this to you? How would you handle things? While were on this subject how many adds have you run how many reptiles do you care for. What are you doing to help reptiles? I'll tell you right now there are people that don't given a crap about animals that just sell for money and don't care what they give people. I can tell you right now that's all I do day in and day out is care for animals and worry about who they go to. I worry that they make it there safe. I've actually cut people off because it seemed like they were not listening to any advice throwing geckos in with Savannah's stupid stuff like that. They call back and I just flat out tell them I can't help them. I have fully taken in all the advice that has been constructive. I do not have too many animals that I can't care for them when that happens I will turn them away. Is this a thorn in my side yes it's made things more difficult but if I have to go out and put fliers on people's cars to sell animals to have enough capital to care for my rescues I will. I will do whatever is in my power to care for them. I took on the responsibility and I will care for them no matter what.

 

[Akiranar]

People have a problem with you changing the story each time you tell it. Also, for the sake of my eyes, could you separate your walls of text into paragraphs please? It's hard for me to read them.

 

[Keven2]

Sorry but that's just the way my writing is.my story does not change except that my friend is a vet tech not a vet and I openly admit this. Sorry your eyes hurt

 

[Akiranar]

Sorry but that's just the way my writing is.my story does not change except that my friend is a vet tech not a vet and I openly admit this. Sorry your eyes hurt

Except your story did change, first you took the Cham to a vet, then you said it was a vet tech, then you just called the vet tech. Which one is it, and why should we believe you when you kept changing your story, are defensive, and rude?

As for not changing how you write, well, if you can't be more mindful of something as simple as hitting enter twice to create spaces between paragraphs for ease of reading, I would hate to be a potential buyer asking for advice and slogging through your stream of consciousness.

 

[Andy_G]

If you can't afford to rescue animals, then don't. That would include the ability to afford a proper VET. If you aren't equipped with the knowledge of knowing what is wrong with an animal or can't afford a VET (not a friend who is a vet tech...who was in this case wrong about multiple things so anither poor judgement on your behalf), you have no right to "rescue" it. If you don't have the knowledge base to identify what you have, don't sell it as only what you think it is, and when someone corrects you don't blame them for your error. Last but not least, if you get caught in a blatant lie, don't expect people to believe you. Calling people bullies when they are just using your own words and ideas and calling you out on your mistakes is very childish and unprofessional. It really shouldn't be difficult. You seem to really love reptiles which is fantastic, but please use your head more than you use your heart and strongly consider connecting with local properly equipped rescues to take on these rescues instead of you doing it because you are not equipped to do it properly. All the best.

 

[Ed Clark]

I have been taking care of rescues for a long time.

The vet wanted 175.00 just to administer fluids to a rhino iguana

Keven, are you licensed by your town,county or Florida fw to run a reptile rescue? if so for how long?

You are showing your lack of experience for treating the simplest of things like administering fluids, that is something you should know as a herper and a reptile rescue. a vet. spends 6+ years of education and is entitled to charge you for their expertise.

 

[millmoss]

"If you can't afford to rescue animals, then don't. "

Kevin,

If you don't hear anything else on this thread, let this sink in.

It's not a rescue for the animals if they go from a bad situation to a situation where it might not be as bad, but it's not going to get significantly better because they have a condition that needs to be treated by a professional.

If you really love reptiles, you're going to have to swallow this pill. It's a big one, and it doesn't go down easy. But if you don't have the finances, or you rely on a business model that does NOT provide you with a constant, steady stream of money to use on the professional care of your rescues, then you have no business taking in any more rescues.

 

[Shiari]

You have gotten in over your head. You have too many reptiles. You are relying on a vet tech to do something ILLEGAL (yes, their actions in acting like a vet for you are ILLEGAL) and they don't know much about these creatures either. Your animals are getting sub-par care.

I'm a vet tech. I would never do what your 'friend' is doing. I like my license and my job. I also have 16 snakes right and had 35 at my highest, and that's not counting the babies during breeding season. I've taken in a few rescue reptiles, but mostly rescue mammals.

My major medical rescue was gotten from the vet office I worked at and I continued bringing him there to get treatment because while I'm a vet tech I am NOT a vet and cannot do what a vet can. My snake healed up well, despite smelling like rotting meat when I got him. Because he was a proper rescue and was taken to a vet.

If you cannot care for the animals you have, you need to reduce your numbers and NOT take in more. And you need to take proper care of the ones you have. That means VETERINARY care, not having a vet tech do something illegal.

 

[Lucille]

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=653441

 

[April Homich]

Kevin,

If you don't hear anything else on this thread, let this sink in.

It's not a rescue for the animals if they go from a bad situation to a situation where it might not be as bad, but it's not going to get significantly better because they have a condition that needs to be treated by a professional.

If you really love reptiles, you're going to have to swallow this pill. It's a big one, and it doesn't go down easy. But if you don't have the finances, or you rely on a business model that does NOT provide you with a constant, steady stream of money to use on the professional care of your rescues, then you have no business taking in any more rescues.

Yes, this. It isn't rescuing if you don't have the means to get proper treatment for them, either. You may have good intentions, but intentions don't pay the bills. I hope you do take something positive away from this and either limit your rescues to what you can afford, or maybe try to find a local rescue you can maybe volunteer with and see if they would be willing to work with reptiles.

 

[Keven2]

Thank you for all the constructive criticism I am going to do my best to cut down on my rescues. Thank you for all the suggestions.

 

[Ed Clark]

Thank you for all the constructive criticism I am going to do my best to cut down on my rescues. Thank you for all the suggestions.

Keven, are you licensed by your town,county or Florida fw to run a reptile rescue? if so for how long?

keven, you are avoiding the questions that the members are asking you. don't you care?

 

[Keven2]

Yes I care I didn't see the question. No I'm not licensed I don't take donations I just do it out of Reptile sakes which I am licensed for.

 

[Insomniac101]

Yes I care I didn't see the question. No I'm not licensed I don't take donations I just do it out of Reptile sakes which I am licensed for.

Keven, are you, or are you not, licensed to run a rescue? That last post is confusing.

Frankly, whether or not you're licensed isn't the biggest concern. It really seems that you're not financially able to do this the right way, and animals are suffering for it. I believe your heart is in the right place, but I also believe you're in over your head. Please reduce your animal count, and workload; you will have more success that way. Unfortunately, no one can save them all.

Kathy

 

[millmoss]

Allright

Kevin said "Thank you for all the constructive criticism I am going to do my best to cut down on my rescues. Thank you for all the suggestions."

Sincerely, good luck out there. It seems like you've heard the important stuff, which is about all anyone could hope for on a thread like this.