NEW SAND BOA WONT EAT ):

[Ahurst]

Ok someone please give me some guidance, I'm a newbie with snakes. My sand boa Frida is my first snake, born November, I received her mid-July. So I'm new with picky eaters since my lizards always eat. The breeder who gave her to me said her last feeding was July 11th. I have tried EVERYTHING to get her to eat but I've ended up wasting 10 mice because she refuses. I use frozen/thawed, same as the breeder did. She ate for the breeder every time no problem. She seems active and healthy, not about to shed.

Here is everything I've tried:
-feeding at day
-feeding at night
-feeding IN the tank
-feeding in a SEPARATE container
-washing the pinkie to cleanse of manufacturer smells
-dragging pinkie along snake's back
-dangling in front of snake's face
-leaving pinkie in with snake overnight
-putting pinkie and snake in deli cup
-rubbing tuna on pinkie
-braining pinkie

The snake just turns away and ignores the pinkie everytime...someone please help I'm so frustrated and want her to be ok!

Set-up: aspen shavings over carpet, UTH 24/7, 50W bulb during the day, under aspen temps about 95 degrees, air temps averaging 80, water dish always, a hide and a plant

 

[Socratic Monologue]

I would try a live pinky, or a freshly prekilled one. There's a wide range of quality of frozen rodents out there, and your snake was used to a certain source of rodents that likely smell different than what you're sourcing.

Probably, the snake was used to living in a small (shoebox size) tub. If you have the snake in a larger enclosure, especially if that enclosure is glass-sided, the snake may not feel secure. The 50w lamp is likely unnecessary for heat, and may be contributing to a feeling of insecurity in the snake also.

It really sounds like you've tried quite a few very sensible things so far; you sound like the kind of person who will succeed at this. Don't worry!

 

[Ahurst]

Unfortunately I’ve researched getting a live pinkie and there is no where even near where I live that sells them. I mean is she going to starve herself? I figured she has to eat at some point right? I wouldn’t think her instincts would let her die from hunger if I’m trying

 

[Socratic Monologue]

It is sometimes hard to say what "instincts" will tell an animal to do when it is in a completely unnatural environment (captivity). It is quite possible that snakes don't experience hunger anything like we do, too.

Yes, you are trying, and that's good. You've tried most of the commonly suggested feeding tricks for hatchlings. One more you might try is to boil the pink: heat up a couple cups of water to a hard boil, take it off the heat, drop a thawed pink into the water for 10-15 seconds, remove the pink and cool it before presenting it to the snake. I'd suggest 'tease feeding' from tongs when the snake is in ambush mode rather than when the snake is out cruising the tank.

When you change an aninal's situation (enclosure, daylight cycle, humidity, ambient scents, frequency of handling), its eating habits/preferences may well change. If you post more info/pics about the cage setup here, maybe you can get more feedback as to whether the enclosure may be part of the issue. I suspect it is.

Contacting the breeder for more tips and suggestions might be fruitful, too.

 

[Ahurst]

enclosure details

Ok I am attaching photos. The yellow line is about where the UTH is. I don't have a temp gun, but I did place the thermometer under the substrate on the warm side and it gets up to 98ish on the reptile carpet. I maybe should mention that most of the time I find her on the cold side, not sure if that means anything but maybe she just prefers it.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

The pics are helpful. Turn the lamp off -- the snake doesn't need it, and it is making it difficult for the snake to thermoregulate, since it is in the middle of the enclosure. Sand boas are secretive, and it likely wants to get away from the light, too.

Put a hide over the hot spot in addition to the one over the cool end. These hides are best if they are flat (rather than hollowed) since sand boas are said to prefer to feel a bit of weight on top of them. If you use hollow hides, the snake should just barely fit into them.

If the boa continues to stay on the cool side after you've removed the lamp, the hot spot is too hot and needs to be turned down (either with a thermostat [best option], an inline lamp dimmer, or mounting it under the tank but not directly in contact with the glass). 98 degrees is too hot. Tune the hot spot temp until the snake stays on it more than half the time, but less than all the time.

Don't handle the snake unnecessarily until you've got it feeding reliably again.

Is that a 10g tank? If it is larger than that, it is likely too large. Even a 10g might be too big for the boa to feel secure. This might be an issue, but I think you're running it too hot with not enough hide options.

Consider searching locally for a live pink (Craigslist, local snake breeder, etc). Sand boas are visual feeders, and it may need that wriggling stimulus.

Going back to the beginning: you said "The breeder who gave her to me". Does 'give' mean 'sold', or does it mean 'turned it over for free'? If the latter, I'm curious to pursue whether this snake was up to snuff in the first place. What exactly did the breeder say about the feeding problems? More information about how you acquired the snake might be helpful here.

 

[Ahurst]

The breeder sold her to me. He said she would eat no problem for him every time. He told me he would dangle the pinkie along her back until she struck. I've tried this but she just moves away. He suggested to try a live goldfish to simulate a live pinkie? I'm not sure about this since she's not a fish eating snake I don't know if she would like the smell of it. I called a pet store in my town and the man said I need to try soaking the pinkie in chicken broth so I bought some to try. Do you think I need to dangle it on her back or should I wiggle it in front of her face? Also, do I need to uncover her in the substrate to feed her or just wait until she pops her head out of the aspen at night? (She does this, I think she's nocturnal)
I think I have a 15 gallon tank; it's what the breeder told me to get. Perhaps I will go get a thermostat today for the UTH - I researched and there are 2 kinds, a dimmer and an on/off thermostat. What kind for the UTH?

 

[Socratic Monologue]

I'm also skeptical of the goldfish idea since sand boas don't eat goldfish, but the breeder may have used that successfully in the past. Getting your snake hooked on goldfish would be a worse situation than you currently are in, though. It may be worth a try in a very extreme case, but I'd wait on it until you've exhausted all the more sensible recommendations (better temperature situation, more/better hides, and after giving those issues a few weeks to work, a live pinky).

or just wait until she pops her head out of the aspen at night?

This. She's an ambush predator, so if you uncover her, she'll likely go into flee mode instead of staying in eating mode. Consider watching some sand boa feeding videos on YouTube (I'm certain there are a bunch) -- you'll get a feel for what the snake wants to be doing.

A dimmer is not a thermostat. A dimmer allows you to set the amount of power sent to the heat; a thermostat allows you to set the temperature of the heat mat. A thermostat is better, but more expensive. Honestly though, for your setup a dimmer would likely be fine. I've used this kind, which you can find at any hardware store, with acceptable results:
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-TBL0...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=HP9FQNK319AVS12FHY52

 

[Helenthereef]

I'm not a sand boa person, and you're getting good specific advice from Socratic Monologue, so I won't add anything more to that, but just a general piece of advice - snakes can go a LONG time without eating, so don't panic if it takes a while longer to get her to take food.

 

[hotlips]

Back to your snake being an ambush predator, many new snake owners over-estimate the bravery of their snake. Remember that the prey should never seem to be approaching the snake, as that isn't the way it happens in nature, trust me on that. You've tried some good things already, but perhaps not in the right combination just yet...this is a bit like getting all the lottery numbers in order to win. And I've "been there"...it will FEEL like you've won when it finally works & your snake eats. One other thing, have you been handling your snake at all? If so, do stop. Best not to handle any new snake until it has fed easily for you at least 3 times, and at normal intervals. Remember that the only thing in nature that usually picks up a snake is a predator about to eat it! And fear totally disrupts a snake's ability to concentrate on food. It takes time for them to settle into a new home also...it's frightening & confusing. Is the cage located in a quiet location?

So just to review:
Never move the snake to another cage/container to feed...feed where they feel safe, which is where they live. (& moving involves handling, a setback)

Offering food too often just stresses them into more refusals. Don't offer this little one more often than once every 5-7 days. Your list of things tried is pretty long, so maybe this is what's actually working against you?

Feed at whatever time is normal for a snake to hunt...often that's at night.
You'll be right there but do your best not to be seen...stay as still as you can. Yes, I've been known to hold my breath too.

I assume you have been using feeding tongs to offer the pinky? Wait until
the snake's body language suggests they're looking for food...when they peek out of their hiding places (whether substrate or hide-box) that's the time. Pinkies don't take long to thaw...drop what you're doing & do it then.
***Make it appear that the pinky is cluelessly strolling near & past the snake...never approach the snake with it. You want the snake to feel it has the upper "hand" & to chase or pounce on it.*** And obviously, let go with the tongs the moment the snake makes a grab on it.

Good luck...stay patient...don't give up...

 

[hotlips]

Also, right after you thaw the pinky & right before you offer it, try scraping or pinching (to damage) the pinky's nose a little bit...that will release a little more scent to the snake. You should not need to add broth or 'brain' the pinky & I agree with above posts, this snake should not be eating goldfish either.

And about feeding in the evening/night time hours- keep the lights low in the room too. If the snake is seeing too much of you moving around, you might also cover the glass on the cage front & sides with some paper (temporarily) so she can better focus on what's inside the cage (ie. the pinky). And when you move the pinky with the tongs, wiggle it very slightly. Too much motion will turn off a shy feeder, which your snake apparently is.

 

[hotlips]

One more thought: how are you thawing the pinkies?

It matters more with larger prey, since pinkies thaw so quick...but keep in mind that improper thawing can promote spoilage that may cause the food to be rejected by the snake (snakes have a much better sense of smell than we do).

Even if you grew up thawing meat for your dinner on the counter-top, here's why this is different: rodents & other prey animals fed to snakes are whole animals...their GI tract is loaded with bacteria that LOVES room temperature to proliferate (grow!). It's just like the food safety warning that's on every frozen holiday turkey: thaw in the refrigerator, or thaw in COLD water only.

I thaw all rodents fed to my snakes in cold water: the larger it is, the longer it takes, and science tells us that temperatures transfer the easiest thru water contact, not thru air (air is actually an insulator...it's why clothing that traps warm air next to your body keeps you warmer, even if it's very light weight like down, polyester fleece or thinsulate-lined).

Thawing in hot water may seem faster, but the problem is that some of the food gets warm enough to be spoiling, while the rest is still lagging behind and frozen solid. And thawing on the counter-top is just wrong...

If (& only if) you have a snake that wants their prey warm in order to strike (such as those with heat sensing pits...pythons & rattlesnakes) once the prey is thawed, you can briefly submerge it in very warm water right before offering, OR, many like to use a blow-dryer to bring the temperature up. I don't think your sand boa will care either way about the prey being warm.
The main thing is to be sure that the prey isn't spoiled.

 

[Ahurst]

You’re all helping a lot I really appreciate it! I’ve been so worried to the point where I even cry because I really want her to be ok. I ordered a temp gun and thermostat for the UTH, should be here tomorrow. I want a better temperature reading than the crappy gauge that’s in the tank. Hopefully a stable temp with the thermostat will help her feel better. I have her tank in my living room, maybe I should move it to my bedroom away from the TV sounds. I will try covering up the sides of the tank for security. With all of the failed attempts some did require me to handle her so I will give her a few days alone. I also was checking to make sure she was healthy and still active etc.
I usually thaw the pink in hot water from the sink. When she refuses to eat I refrigerate the pink in a ziplock inside a Tupperware for another couple days to retry it. After two tries I would throw it away in case it goes bad; didn’t realize hot water may already make it bad. Thanks guys again you’re very helpful.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

Alexis, it sounds as if you're on the right track! However things turn out (I think they'll turn out very well once you and your snake get on the same program) you really are being a great reptile caretaker, and you should be proud of that.

 

[Helenthereef]

Glad you're feeling better about this - I know from experience it really helps to talk it out with others who've had the same issues. (And trust me, we've all been there with stubborn non-feeders).

Just remember that even if she doesn't eat she's not using much energy - she's not having to heat up her body and she's not moving around much, so all that happens if she doesn't eat for a while is that she'll grow more slowly.

As I understand it, Sand Boas are burrowers - do you think that your substrate is deep enough for her to burrow in? If not maybe a deeper layer would help make her feel more secure too.

Let us know how you progress, and good luck!

 

[hotlips]

with Socratic Monologue's post: in a "perfect world" your first snake would be easy to feed, and everything would go as planned. That you're still trying so hard & searching for answers bodes very well for both you and your snake. Some snakes are easier than others to start off with...but look at the bright side, we ALL learn much more from our mistakes than when everything is too easy. We've all been new keepers at one time & most of us have had difficult snakes that were made more difficult by our own inexperience. At least you've got the internet to go to...I've kept snakes for many years & I had no such source of information back then. Forums like this are a real gift, and the only "dumb question" is the one you don't ask.

 

[hotlips]

And yes, I'd move her cage away from the TV to the bedroom. Snakes can't "hear" but they feel vibrations from bass notes especially, plus the blue-screen light from electronics can interfere with our own sleep patterns, and we're much bigger (& presumably tougher) than snakes, so it may well have a negative impact on your snake, especially while she's still trying to settle in.

 

[Ahurst]

GOOD NEWS UPDATE! She finally ate! I researched places that ship live pinks to no avail. Luckily someone at a pet store in my town knew of another shop an hour away that sells live feeders so I drove over there; they were out of pinks but I got a small fuzzy. She checked it out for a bit then moved away. I uncovered her and tried again and it took a bit but she eventually struck and ate the fuzzy. I'm so relieved. Thank you all for helping out it makes me feel better to have an entire forum of people that also care about animals and know how to help when needed

 

[Helenthereef]

Such good news - congratulations!

Persistence and patience are the keys.

 

[TheGoatFairy]

I didn't read all the replies, so I've no clue if this has been mentioned already or not, but I'd like to point out that artificial setups tend to restrict a lot of natural behaviors that herps would exhibit in the wild or in a bioactive/naturalistic enclosure. In bioactive setups, herps always display more comfort, better overall health, and they exhibit a wider range of natural behaviors. While this may or may not contribute to your eating problem, I'd definitely look into upgrading to a more natural setup that more closely mimic your sand boa's natural habitat.