The BOI will be coming to an end on 02-02-2020

[AbsoluteApril]

The BOI is in such a TAME place compared to how it was 10 years ago! if you think it's bad now you have no idea how it used to be and what a MUCH calmer and more rational place it is now.

 

[Mike Schultz]

So when people toss allegations and accusations against a business, that business will have to pay in order to add their side of the story?

 

[JumpSpidersInc]

I have been a long-time lurker, hardly ever posting. That aside, I find FC in its entirety to be extremely useful, along with being extremely well-run and moderated.
Facebook "BOI" groups are total trash and I never look at them.
Rich, thank you for the years of dedication you have put into this site.
Robert Walker, I have enjoyed the few times we sleuthed together.
To the rest of the moderating team, exceptional work.
I cannot afford to be a Contributor, so I shall say that I will dearly miss this site.

Thank you all.

 

[Insomniac101]

The integrity and accuracy is far too often no more than petty jealousy and name calling.

After an outrages incident this summer. I had decided to stop contributing to fauna.

Most threads start with someone posting a legitimate complaint about a transaction gone sour.

Unfortunately, some threads deteriorate into mudslinging and petty behavior. However, that reflects negatively on the maturity and integrity of the poster, not the site.

What outrageous incident happened this summer, that caused you to withdraw your support?

Thank you

 

[Will0W783]

I'm sorry that you had to come to this Rich, but I think it is a good incentive to get people to contribute. So many don't realize how much work, time, and money goes into keeping a website up and running. The BOI has gotten me refunds I never would have gotten without it, and saved me from bad deals a few times as well. It is definitely valuable to me. I had let my contributor status lapse this past year, due to my husband losing his job and a death in my immediate family; it just wasn't on my radar.
I will definitely be re-instating it now though.

 

[Dro B]

You should upgrade the site so that people can log in using thier facebook accounts like many sites are doing today that would revive many areas of this site and bring in new users.

 

[WebSlave]

So when people toss allegations and accusations against a business, that business will have to pay in order to add their side of the story?

There was a lot of discussion about this back in 2009 in those threads I mentioned in post #11. Basically I bent over backwards to offer free temporary access to people placed in that situation. And at one point I even offered a 10 year membership level for $10. Seems fair, no? Complete waste of my time and energy. So no, I am not doing that again.

The lowest level membership cost here to gain access to the Board of Inquiry after 02-02-2019 is $25 per year. So let me get this straight. Instead of just paying the $25 to help out this site, they would want ME to jump through hoops for them? Do I have that right? I fell for that last time.

 

[Pasodama]

No matter the situation/circumstance, nobody can make all people happy and, certainly, not all people at the same time.

I am one who does not want to see the BOI, here at Fauna, go away.
Although some people may not like it, and, yes, some feathers may be ruffled from time to time, it is the best run, & best set up, BOI that, currently, exists.

On the BOI, I don't always agree with how some people act, &/or with everyone's opinions, but, for crying out loud, I don't blame the BOI for the posts of ~Individuals~. However, there are those who, ignorantly, do so. Pity.

As for those who cry lawsuit, it is not the BOI who posts "bad guy" (or "good guy", "info", "etc.") threads. It is ~individuals~ who do.
Regardless, those individuals are well within their rights to do so. There is nothing illegal, in posting one's experience, wherever they wish to do so &/or all over the world for that matter. No lible exists as long as what has been posted is the truth.
If someone does not want to ever see their name/business posted, as the subject of a "bad guy" thread, it is simple. Don't screw over any of your customers.
If it turns out that an honest mistake was made, all that needs to be done is to quickly rectify the error, or compensate for it, and you come out smelling like roses.
If it turns out that a false, or frivolous, complaint is posted, they are ~very quickly~ smelled and outed. No problem.
It is ridiculous for the threats of lawsuit, or the filing of a lawsuit, to occur.

That said, I really understand your thoughts, and reasoning behind what you are going to be doing with the BOI, Rich ... and I support you.

Fauna is a great site in general. Although I'd like to have the BOI continue on, I will remain a paid member, with or without the BOI (should it ever go away some day) for as long as Fauna is still running (or as long as I am, whichever goes first LoL).

BTW
I am a paid member of both Fauna and CS.com. Paying more at CS.com so as to have my own forum there (wonder if that would work here?).
Anyway, I would like to raise my contributer level (pay more) here at Fauna. Probably next month?
Only thing is that I wonder, if I were to do so (let's say next month), what happens to my current membership, which does not expire until Oct.? Will the higher level paid membership start as soon as I pay for it, and move expiration to that earlier date (a yr. later, of course), and simply erase my current membership (and paid $)? Something else?

~~~~

 

[Pasodama]

So when people toss allegations and accusations against a business, that business will have to pay in order to add their side of the story?

People spend a ~lot~ more money on things that give them nothing more (and I mean nothing) than a temporary joy or satisfaction.
If there were a false complaint, and I had proof of it, you can bet it would be worth it, to me, to pay a measly $25 to defend my name & rep.
Just my thoughts.

 

[Lucille]

I think there should be a one month membership or even a one day pass available to those responding to an allegation that there is a thread about them. There doesn't even have to be a thread, people might prank others and just say there is a thread. People need to know what they are responding to, what they are up against.

I forecast that there will be a LOT more people sharing accounts with friends to see what is going on, if there is not a little flexibility built in here from the start.
Others might disagree with me, that is OK, it won't be a first. But it just seems a tad unfair to not even be able to see an allegation without having to pay for a one year membership, especially if one is innocent.

 

[WebSlave]

BTW
I am a paid member of both Fauna and CS.com. Paying more at CS.com so as to have my own forum there (wonder if that would work here?).
Anyway, I would like to raise my contributer level (pay more) here at Fauna. Probably next month?
Only thing is that I wonder, if I were to do so (let's say next month), what happens to my current membership, which does not expire until Oct.? Will the higher level paid membership start as soon as I pay for it, and move expiration to that earlier date (a yr. later, of course), and simply erase my current membership (and paid $)? Something else?

~~~~

FYI, I terminated the personal forums over on CS a while ago when they were obviously being abandoned. I only allowed the existing ones to remain as long as they were at least being used. And no, you are not paying more for them than the standard paid membership which is identical to here. BTW, you haven't posted in your personal forum over there since 2015. Hint, hint...

And for the record, I did try personal forums here for a while. Yet another disaster that proved to be a waste of my time setting up.

The way the memberships are being used here is not as the developers of this message board software intended. There intention was for it to be used to open up access to one or more hidden or locked forums for each "subscription". Sort of you would be subscribing to special forums and not special *features* and *perks". So the way it works here, with the way I have it set up, each paid membership gives more perks per higher level, not opening up access to additional forums. So having multiple memberships does not gain you anything as only the highest level would really be significant. Things like classified ad bumps are not summed between multiple memberships, only the highest one is significant. Yes, both memberships will run concurrently, but that doesn't really gain you anything except you would be sporting BOTH medallions in your profile box associated with your messages posted. I've had people tell me that they like that "feature" but that is highly unusual for someone to do that.

So concerning upgrades, what I have done in the past is to allow an upgrade for the difference in price between the new higher and the old lower level. But this is something I have to do completely manually, so we would have to do this via private message rather than drawing this thread too far off beam.

Does that help to explain how that works?

 

[snakesareawesome]

BOI is more useful than facebook because it catalogs a lot of information over a lot of years and is just more searchable. Facebook groups will come and go and not provide that long term source of data. Also facebook is subject to change itself. I believe they have unenforced rules on the books about animal sales and such.

 

[Pasodama]

FYI, I terminated the personal forums over on CS a while ago when they were obviously being abandoned. I only allowed the existing ones to remain as long as they were at least being used. And no, you are not paying more for them than the standard paid membership which is identical to here.

Whups, that is true. Okay, I ~used~ to pay more.
Still would pay extra if for nothing more than supporting the site.

BTW, you haven't posted in your personal forum over there since 2015. Hint, hint...

Also true. LoL
For some reason, I just like having it. Guess I should go update, etc., when I get a chance to.

Does that help to explain how that works?

Yep. I understood about the perks etc. Have just never tried upgrading, mid membership, before. Wondered how that was handled. Will get in touch, with you, next month or in March.

 

[April Homich]

I realize that I let my membership lapse. I don't mean to - I changed my email several years ago, and just now updated it here so I likely miss any kind of notifications.

I still find the BOI quite useful, and try to send people over here to share their issues with transactions because you can find BOI posts in google searches - something that you can't do in Facebook. I find the Facebook groups to be quite messy and hard to search, and there is extremely limited accountability in posts.

All this being said, I can understand how running the site with a lack of support can be a burden and a cause of frustration, so whatever happens, I understand. I've been around for years, so I will go ahead and do that renewal!

 

[Dro B]

This site is better than facebook in a lot of ways but the point of allowing people to log in using Facebook accounts is that a lot of people these days don't want the hassle of creating accounts. A lot has changed in the past 20 years since this site first opened and you are dealing with a younger generation. I don't know what it takes to change the site to do that it may be too expensive to be an option but if it isn't I think it would bring a lot of traffic here. IMO the BOI is probably what has kept this site going most other similar sites have died or are on thier last leg but I get the predicament Rich is in too.

 

[Looney]

I'm a pretty new member to this forum. I got out of the herp hobby many years ago. After years of not having the time for GTP'S, ATB'S, balls, carpets, etc etc. I jumped back in. I forgot how much I loved my critters. This was one of the best forums I could find. The BOI was an incredibly useful tool. I just personally contributed to help out and keep access to the BOI. I would love to see a cost effective way to keep it alive for everyone just so newcomers could have access to the info so they could join the hobby with confidence with out too much extra cost. I don't mind spending a few bucks a year for valuable info but it may turn away new members who would contribute down the road if they see its value.

What if we had members contribute to a fund to help pay for a hand picked selection of members to have access and pay for their membership?

 

[Big Time Reptiles]

What if we had members contribute to a fund to help pay for a hand picked selection of members to have access and pay for their membership?

$25 a year is a small price to pay for a membership, considering the price of reptiles, and other critters.

I personally don't think we need a welfare system, it would be just a matter of time, it would be abused. A hand picked selection of members? If these are new members how would one pick who did and didn't receive the FREE membership, I think that would be much more trouble than it's worth, and although I do believe the welfare system here in America is needed, "for some", it's widely ABUSED!

I don't think Rich needs to implement a welfare system here.

JMHO

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

 

[spawn]

This logic doesn't make sense. You want to keep the BOI around, despite its lack of popularity, by now ADDING a paywall? Wouldn't it make MORE sense to just charge a flat fee to people wanting to post ads, since that would incentivize them to make money off of potential sales? You're looking at it all wrong. I understand your reasoning, but it's just an inevitable failure. Most sites charge people to post ads - because you're making money off of free advertising. You being the users, not you the admin. Trying to resurrect or justify something that is free that is waning by making it harder to access (regardless of the headache to you) doesn't make any logical sense to your audience or users. Years of cataloged information lost forever for something new users won't even notice.


Again, I understand your reasoning. From a principled standpoint, it makes perfect sense. From a 'driving traffic' standpoint principles do not apply from the user's perspective.

 

[WebSlave]

This logic doesn't make sense. You want to keep the BOI around, despite its lack of popularity, by now ADDING a paywall? Wouldn't it make MORE sense to just charge a flat fee to people wanting to post ads, since that would incentivize them to make money off of potential sales? You're looking at it all wrong. I understand your reasoning, but it's just an inevitable failure. Most sites charge people to post ads - because you're making money off of free advertising. You being the users, not you the admin. Trying to resurrect or justify something that is free that is waning by making it harder to access (regardless of the headache to you) doesn't make any logical sense to your audience or users. Years of cataloged information lost forever for something new users won't even notice.


Again, I understand your reasoning. From a principled standpoint, it makes perfect sense. From a 'driving traffic' standpoint principles do not apply from the user's perspective.

The classifieds really don't cause me any headaches. I don't get threats of lawsuits over what is posted in them. I don't get people threatening me with physical injury over what someone has posted there. I don't have the need for the "got my back" support of the majority of TOTAL members (past and present) standing behind my sticking my neck out to defend the classified ads they have posted on this site. The feeling of a MAJORITY of "I will have your back, if you have mine" is gone, and it now feels like a oneway street. Yes, there are still apparently a good number of people who do support this site and the BOI, but it no longer feels like even close to being a consensus. Not when 139,000 total registered members is taken into consideration.

The number of people who have left this site, and/or declined to continue financially supporting it, has driven the point well home with me that the BOI is not as important as I would have hoped it would be to most people. So this is the result. I guess I don't understand why that logical progression set in motion when people decided to stop supporting this site should come as such a surprise.

So no, I am not going to charge anyone to use the classifieds here on this site. I just don't see the need for it, and it is actually irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Looney]

$25 a year is a small price to pay for a membership, considering the price of reptiles, and other critters.

I personally don't think we need a welfare system, it would be just a matter of time, it would be abused. A hand picked selection of members? If these are new members how would one pick who did and didn't receive the FREE membership, I think that would be much more trouble than it's worth, and although I do believe the welfare system here in America is needed, "for some", it's widely ABUSED!

I don't think Rich needs to implement a welfare system here.

JMHO

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

Lynn,

It was simply an idea. Neither great or perfect but just an idea. I agree $25 isn't a large sum of money. I paid once I realized this forum needed support. I didn't think twice. $25 wasn't going to make or brake me. I willing to listen to any idea that keeps the access to the BOI as open as possible. With the younger and next generations utilizing the Internet for information more and more before entering a hobby. Restricting access to the info needed to enter the hobby only hurts the "good and responsible breeders" who will help usher in further generations of herpers with quality animals and service.

I don't think there is any good solution right now aside from trying to monetize every transaction in the classifieds but no good way to do it. It seems to be the most utilized aspect of the forum but doesn't seem to generate much money for the site itself. If anyone could figure out a way to monetize a $1 or $2 from every actual sale it might go a long way into keeping open access to the BOI.