Bad Guy bad guy Francisco /MOC Reptiles

[Emery Aranda]

O I've read everything, its just confusing as you didn't give full details in your opening posts and the rest is very hard to follow as you seem to be adding more details to the time line as it goes on making info hard to keep straight. Didn't realize you had tried home remedies prior to Francesco's suggestions. Who told you to use rot guard and up the temps? Did you do this on your own? What home remedies did you add once Francesco mentioned some, what ones did you take away. I also said if you know what you're doing. "I wasn’t experienced with dealing with sickly animals so it took about 2 weeks before I saw the problems worsening and took him to a vet."



So correct me if I'm wrong but the actual time line goes something like:



week 1: FD arrives, you notice mouth gape, but someone told you "aussie frilleds do this more frequently than the NG" so your not concerned. Then you later say, " he looked good at the time but didn’t pull him apart looking him up and down like I should’ve because I assumed he was in good health!"

and even later you say "Like I said he was mouth gaping and mucus was prevalent first day."



So which is it?



"I was sure something was wrong after the first week of having the lizard.





"I wasn’t experienced with dealing with sickly animals so it took about 2 weeks before I saw the problems worsening and took him to a vet."





"Incorrect. 5 weeks after I received a follow up exam and the antibiotics I needed. Not when I diagnosed him or first took him to the vet. I was sure something was wrong after one week, over the next week tried treating it on my own, and by the beginning of the third week I saw that the “rot guard” that I had been trying as well as increasing the heat to make an artificial fever both had not worked, so I knew it was time to make a vet visit. And they had no openings I’d be available for until later on. By this point you were still ignoring my messages."



So like I said you're on your own.



Your confusing bias with taking sides. We're allowed to take sides on this as to what's right and wrong as we see it. Unbiased people making a decisions on evidence provided. Your getting upset as most here don't see it the way you do. That doesn't make us biased towards Francesco or you.

I don’t get what you’re saying? The timeline you said makes sense. I noticed the slight mucus and mouth gape first day, didn’t know it was certainly something wrong until after about a week because it was starting to look worse. I started looking to get a vet after 2 weeks had gone by, but they had no times id be able to go until the day I actually went. I was still trying to treat it with home remedies until I was finally prescribed antibiotics


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[Emery Aranda]

Can you prove you it was correct? I couldn't tell you the number of times I've been told "husbandry is correct, couldn't possibly be that." Guess what majority of the time it wasn't. Someone claiming it's correct isn't enough evidence for me anymore.

How do I prove it’s correct and have you believe me? I’ll tell you everything and then you’ll say some dumb sh** like “oh you looked that up on google”. At this point it’s my word, and you obviously aren’t going to believe it since you’ve been on his side since the beginning of this post.


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[Emery Aranda]

We have your word, you said he looked good.

To someone who has no experience with RI, an animal with an early one can look “good”. Clear eyes, good strong posture will come off as healthy. But RI is internally speaking.... He’s not translucent and I don’t have X-ray vision


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[Lucille]

To someone who has no experience with RI, an animal with an early one can look “good”. Clear eyes, good strong posture will come off as healthy. But RI is internally speaking.... He’s not translucent and I don’t have X-ray vision

Perhaps it came off as healthy because it was healthy.

 

[MOC REPTILES]

Well, I did expect your friends to participate as well. But in any case, tge great majority of people are against you. Everyone here, and everyone except your 2 or 3 friends on fb. That is all it matters

So are you gonna claim I made all these fake accounts? This is off of your own “public harassment” post of me. You have the advantage of it with only your followers/likes being able to see it yet you’re still getting negative feedback because you’re attracting it with negative energy.


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[Emery Aranda]

Perhaps it came off as healthy because it was healthy.

Or perhaps because RI early signs to someone who doesn’t know how to spot them can come off as normal...


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[Milesd_87]

How do I prove it’s correct and have you believe me? I’ll tell you everything and then you’ll say some dumb sh** like “oh you looked that up on google”. At this point it’s my word, and you obviously aren’t going to believe it since you’ve been on his side since the beginning of this post.


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The timeline was just verifying that I had it straight. Since you stated that I haven't read everything and some of your posts contradict or say something different then your previous posts.

You don't have to prove anything to me. I'm just saying just because you say it is correct doesn't mean it is. For future reference, if I'm dealing with animal I bought or one that I sold, and husbandry come up, I make sure to take or ask for pics/vids of temperature gradients, humidity, and enclosure. Then we can determine what the issue may be. I also find out how the animal was being kept prior, to ensure the new enclosure is as close to how the animal was previously being kept. Just some food for thought on future purchases going forward.

Your assumptions of "dumb sh**" I might say means nothing, that's your opinion on things that haven't even happened yet...

I took my "side" after reading the first four pages, not when I opened the post. Once again, these are just your assumptions.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

I'm sorry for your loss. I'm glad you are there to step up to help your family.

I wonder why you thought it fit to add another animal to your life when you admit that you have no days off from work and are still dealing with the after effects of your mother's passing.

It isn't as if this latter event happened in the middle of the dragon issue, right? This current situation is happening months afterwards, and while it is completely understandable that you could still be overwhelmed with the situation your family is still coming to terms with, a responsible person would put a hold on unimportant matters like animal acquisitions until he had time to do so with full attention.

To put it more bluntly: if a person cannot fit in a vet appointment in a timely manner, then that person should not own animals. Full stop.

It isn't any wonder that an animal became sick while in your care (or lack of it, for want of time), but it is a wonder that you think that anyone here would believe that you're a victim of anything but your own bad judgment and overly inflated estimation of your innocence.

Your hole is quite deep enough, Mr. Aranda. I recommend you stop digging, lest you can never climb out.

I was dealing with my mothers death as well as working 7 days a week. It was hard fitting a vet appointment in. It was after 3 weeks that I confirmed it had issues. Not when the problems started arising. They were worsening. I tried taking care of it on my own first before going to the breeder since he was leaving me on read and not replying. It took him 13 days to get back to me.


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[AppEcto]

And I wasn’t sure it was sick at first because I didn’t know how to spot signs.

If you witnessed mucus discharge on the first day as you claim, but didn't know that was a sign of illness, you clearly didn't know enough to care for this species. Your own pictures show a severe decline in health from the day of arrival to the more current pictures you posted. You can claim conditions were perfect all you want, but this....

Besides the mouth gaping on arrival

Is so clearly better than this...

If you were taking such great care of this lizard, why does it look so much worse now? Proper husbandry could have cleared up a respiratory infection if one actually did exist initially. By the way, frilled dragons will gape readily when threatened. An open mouth alone is not a sign of illness with this species. I see no obvious signs of any health issue in the first picture, but the second shows an animal at death's door after it had been kept in your care for a few weeks. That's all I need to see in order to know for a fact that your husbandry was not up to par and lead to the decline in health.

 

[Emery Aranda]

You’re obviously all fans of his or something. His other reviews and people’s comments is all I needed to confirm it’s not just I that has issues with this guy. Say what you guys want to say, you are just going to repetitively use the same arguments that I already provided my counter argument for. This guy is obviously unprofessional by how he handled things and it has left an impact on him and potential customers. This doesn’t affect me at all. A couple reptile breeders who I’ve never heard of might avoid me. Oh I’m so so scared. At least I’ve already bought from the good ones and left a mutually good experience with them [emoji1305] so I’m sure they’ll keep selling to me. And MOC will continue to give crappy service and more and more people will speak out.


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[Emery Aranda]

If you witnessed mucus discharge on the first day as you claim, but didn't know that was a sign of illness, you clearly didn't know enough to care for this species. Your own pictures show a severe decline in health from the day of arrival to the more current pictures you posted. You can claim conditions were perfect all you want, but this....





Is so clearly better than this...







If you were taking such great care of this lizard, why does it look so much worse now? Proper husbandry could have cleared up a respiratory infection if one actually did exist initially. By the way, frilled dragons will gape readily when threatened. An open mouth alone is not a sign of illness with this species. I see no obvious signs of any health issue in the first picture, but the second shows an animal at death's door after it had been kept in your care for a few weeks. That's all I need to see in order to know for a fact that your husbandry was not up to par and lead to the decline in health.

It wasn’t just RI. Also yellow fungus and mouth rot. I’ve been treating it with antibiotics but they’ve been pretty slow... going to take him to the vet again soon.
Husbandry after it already has yellow fungus will not control it or have it go away. That’s a a fungal disease that wasn’t possibly contracted from my animals especially considering the brand new cage and furnishings as well as being quarantined.

Not everyone deals with sick animals. You contradicted yourself by going back and forth on the mouth gaping. That was his symptom which was so slight I thought it was normal at first. Not sure how many times I have to keep going over this....


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[MOC REPTILES]

Those persons are not on your side. They are just saying we were not professional for dealing with you this way. Another girl claiming we don’t take proper care of our animals, is a local customer who cooked a crested gecko by leaving it in the car, and came back 30 mins later to the shop saying she wanted a refund. (The temperature gun was pointing 100 F on the delicup). she was not happy and started a war, just like you... these are the people on those shot screens...
And we accept it, totally unprofessional, but we don’t have a choice when you ask your friends to write unfair bad reviews on google... your friends have never bought from us.
This is very dishonest from you, and the whole community has to know about this.
The more you do this, the worse will get for you.

We have no fans here in this post that you started...we never met!
They are people who can read your version and my version of the story. Nobody supported you. End of the story!

You have made a complete fool of yourself these last couple of days. You just advertised my business and increased the number of sales and followers, and now you are known by a big percentage of the reptile community.
Continue like this, and you will only get worse for you. I had warned you!
Learn, be a man and move on!


QUOTE=emeryfbrecovery;2140498]You’re obviously all fans of his or something. His other reviews and people’s comments is all I needed to confirm it’s not just I that has issues with this guy. Say what you guys want to say, you are just going to repetitively use the same arguments that I already provided my counter argument for. This guy is obviously unprofessional by how he handled things and it has left an impact on him and potential customers. This doesn’t affect me at all. A couple reptile breeders who I’ve never heard of might avoid me. Oh I’m so so scared. At least I’ve already bought from the good ones and left a mutually good experience with them [emoji1305] so I’m sure they’ll keep selling to me. And MOC will continue to give crappy service and more and more people will speak out.


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[Lucille]

You’re obviously all fans of his or something. His other reviews and people’s comments is all I needed to confirm it’s not just I that has issues with this guy. Say what you guys want to say, you are just going to repetitively use the same arguments that I already provided my counter argument for. This guy is obviously unprofessional by how he handled things and it has left an impact on him and potential customers. This doesn’t affect me at all. A couple reptile breeders who I’ve never heard of might avoid me. Oh I’m so so scared. At least I’ve already bought from the good ones and left a mutually good experience with them so I’m sure they’ll keep selling to me. And MOC will continue to give crappy service and more and more people will speak out.

I think you are whistling in the dark. Your combination of bad husbandry, willingness to lay blame on a seller to try to get $$, personal attacks, and an absolute refusal to take responsibility for your own behavior will alienate you from many.
The only thing MOC did was to refuse to be your ATM. Good for him.

 

[AppEcto]

Funny how no "yellow fungus" or mouth rot are apparent in your picture from day one. I certainly didn't contradict myself, but I can believe that you didn't understand my statements. You question how many times you have to keep going over this. Zero times. We all understood what you said the first time. The problem is it doesn't make sense, so no amount of repeating it is going to change anything.

You started this thread and the response on here from impartial reptile keepers has been pretty well unanimous that you are the one in the wrong. Clearly you can't see the writing on the wall and will not be convinced of your own responsibility since you're so set on passing the blame. For that reason, I think any further responses to your posts, by me or anyone else, are pointless at this point.

It wasn’t just RI. Also yellow fungus and mouth rot. I’ve been treating it with antibiotics but they’ve been pretty slow... going to take him to the vet again soon.
Husbandry after it already has yellow fungus will not control it or have it go away. That’s a a fungal disease that wasn’t possibly contracted from my animals especially considering the brand new cage and furnishings as well as being quarantined.

Not everyone deals with sick animals. You contradicted yourself by going back and forth on the mouth gaping. That was his symptom which was so slight I thought it was normal at first. Not sure how many times I have to keep going over this....


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[Emery Aranda]

Funny how no "yellow fungus" or mouth rot are apparent in your picture from day one. I certainly didn't contradict myself, but I can believe that you didn't understand my statements. You question how many times you have to keep going over this. Zero times. We all understood what you said the first time. The problem is it doesn't make sense, so no amount of repeating it is going to change anything.



You started this thread and the response on here from impartial reptile keepers has been pretty well unanimous that you are the one in the wrong. Clearly you can't see the writing on the wall and will not be convinced of your own responsibility since you're so set on passing the blame. For that reason, I think any further responses to your posts, by me or anyone else, are pointless at this point.

yellow fungus on upper lip 10 days after receiving



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[Emery Aranda]

I think you are whistling in the dark. Your combination of bad husbandry, willingness to lay blame on a seller to try to get $$, personal attacks, and an absolute refusal to take responsibility for your own behavior will alienate you from many.

The only thing MOC did was to refuse to be your ATM. Good for him.

Okay killer. Whatever you say. There was others opposing him as well. Not on fauna but his own Facebook. So whatever y’all losers say. Not like I was ever planning on doing business with any of you anyways. No loss for me here besides the sickly frilled dragon he sent me for $850.


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[Emery Aranda]

Those persons are not on your side. They are just saying we were not professional for dealing with you this way. Another girl claiming we don’t take proper care of our animals, is a local customer who cooked a crested gecko by leaving it in the car, and came back 30 mins later to the shop saying she wanted a refund. (The temperature gun was pointing 100 F on the delicup). she was not happy and started a war, just like you... these are the people on those shot screens...

And we accept it, totally unprofessional, but we don’t have a choice when you ask your friends to write unfair bad reviews on google... your friends have never bought from us.

This is very dishonest from you, and the whole community has to know about this.

The more you do this, the worse will get for you.



We have no fans here in this post that you started...we never met!

They are people who can read your version and my version of the story. Nobody supported you. End of the story!



You have made a complete fool of yourself these last couple of days. You just advertised my business and increased the number of sales and followers, and now you are known by a big percentage of the reptile community.

Continue like this, and you will only get worse for you. I had warned you!

Learn, be a man and move on!





QUOTE=emeryfbrecovery;2140498]You’re obviously all fans of his or something. His other reviews and people’s comments is all I needed to confirm it’s not just I that has issues with this guy. Say what you guys want to say, you are just going to repetitively use the same arguments that I already provided my counter argument for. This guy is obviously unprofessional by how he handled things and it has left an impact on him and potential customers. This doesn’t affect me at all. A couple reptile breeders who I’ve never heard of might avoid me. Oh I’m so so scared. At least I’ve already bought from the good ones and left a mutually good experience with them [emoji1305] so I’m sure they’ll keep selling to me. And MOC will continue to give crappy service and more and more people will speak out.





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[/QUOTE]



You think you increased your business with this? Oh brother [emoji2359][emoji2359][emoji2359][emoji23] keeping thinking that.


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[Iguanalady]

Okay, I read through this whole thing. A little confusing but I think I got the jest of it. All I see is blame. I don't see anything even resembling any kind of personal responsibility. Part of being a good person is accepting even the slightest possibility that you might have done something wrong. I would not hesitate to do business with MOC. You on the other hand are showing your age by not accepting any part responsibility for what you may have or haven't done.
The constant attacks on Lucille for telling you what you don't want to hear are not helping you either. Time to take a look at your part in this. You waited far too long to take the animal to the vet. Treating it yourself is something I would have never done. Vet first, then any home remedies he may suggest.

 

[Emery Aranda]

Okay, I read through this whole thing. A little confusing but I think I got the jest of it. All I see is blame. I don't see anything even resembling any kind of personal responsibility. Part of being a good person is accepting even the slightest possibility that you might have done something wrong. I would not hesitate to do business with MOC. You on the other hand are showing your age by not accepting any part responsibility for what you may have or haven't done.
The constant attacks on Lucille for telling you what you don't want to hear are not helping you either. Time to take a look at your part in this. You waited far too long to take the animal to the vet. Treating it yourself is something I would have never done. Vet first, then any home remedies he may suggest.

Why would you do the home remedies after already going to the vet? At that point wouldn’t you just follow the vets orders?????

I don’t know how to go about taking responsibility in this. I admit I should’ve got to a vet sooner but with my work schedule it’s difficult. A lot of the old timers that are retired on here don’t get it but of course they don’t- they don’t have to work [emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]

You can say I show my age but remarks like this, make him look as if he’s also my age. It’s funny how he uses his ethnicity to justify it [emoji2359].

And regardless of who’s at fault it shows unprofessionalism in how he reacted.

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[Lucille]

I don’t know how to go about taking responsibility in this.

When we weren't retired, we did take our critters in. It is just another excuse for your poor behavior to point to the retired people here as an excuse for not getting your critter to the vet.

What you need to do to take responsibility is to apologize to your seller, I feel this was just a gimme thread to get $ from him, but there is no proof the critter was ill when received. You've given him a lot of undeserved aggravation.

You need to apologize to others for your trashy personal attacks. You need to either sell your collection, or find a friend who will help you with care/vet visits when you do not have the time.

You need to resist the urge to be defensive, you have shown some not very professional behavior and you need to do better after making amends.