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Shipping temps

Southern Wolf

Southern Wolf

I don't bite..... HARD!!!
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What are your cutoffs for shipping.

What temps will you NOT ship in?
When do you include a heat pack?
When do you include a cool pack?

Maybe we can get a decent discussion going... that will be helpful for the newer folks to the world of shipping.

Basically how do ya'll keep your babies safe during transit.
 
Kevin,

There are excellent discussions and tips in this same forum.

Best
 
My live arrival guarantee covers low temperatures above 40 degrees F and high temperatures below 90 degrees F at the receiver's address. Their are cases from time to time where I will still cover a DOA if temperatures at the receiver's address are higher then that. I include a heat pack if temps are going to be less then 70 degrees and a cool pack if temps are going to be more then 80 degrees. This of course can vary depending on species as certain species are more sensitive or can tolerate different temperatures.
 
Depending on the temperature, i personally have done * ive only shipped a FEW times* what i feel will keep the temps appropriate inside the box the entire duration of the trip.

Its a really good idea to check the temps on both ends. When you are sending it, and when the person will be getting it too, and seeing how the temps will be throughout the day for both, and pack accordingly. If your shipment is going out at night, to be on its way fairly soon to its destination, it might be a good idea, if you are able, to pack for the recieving ends temps as best you can, as the weather will probably change depending on where you are shipping to.

So. People down south, will have warmer temps, but they will be shipping out at nighttime, so the temps are a little lower. They might choose to include a heat pack for say, sending something up north, to MA. where its a bit colder even during the day. You might be OK to ship without, but the peak temps of the heat pack will probably be just right while the critter is in transit on its way north.
 
Is everyone still using the standard 1/2" foam... or have ya'll upgraded to the 1" foam. I have found a reasonable supplier of the 1" stuff and I can build my own boxes for the same price you can buy boxes with the 1/2" stuff. I just buy my boxes and foam sepeartely.
 
That's great, you should name your supplier!

Another thing to think about...I get the boxes the Meds are shipped to my Vet in. They're like a styrofoam box within a box (about 1in thick). Helps I used to work for him, but they have to dispose of them so they give them to me for free. Good, sturdy and clean and they usually have a cool pack in the bottom so I get those too.

Ask yours, I'm sure they'd rather give them to you than fill up their dumpsters with them.
 
LakesideBoas said:
That's great, you should name your supplier!

Another thing to think about...I get the boxes the Meds are shipped to my Vet in. They're like a styrofoam box within a box (about 1in thick). Helps I used to work for him, but they have to dispose of them so they give them to me for free. Good, sturdy and clean and they usually have a cool pack in the bottom so I get those too.

Ask yours, I'm sure they'd rather give them to you than fill up their dumpsters with them.
Click to expand...

Thats a great idea, i might ask to do that, and start building an arsenal. :D:thumbsup:
 
Southern Wolf said:
Is everyone still using the standard 1/2" foam... or have ya'll upgraded to the 1" foam. I have found a reasonable supplier of the 1" stuff and I can build my own boxes for the same price you can buy boxes with the 1/2" stuff. I just buy my boxes and foam sepeartely.
Click to expand...

Still using 1/2". I believe Sammy already mentioned on another thread that he tested 1/2" to 1" and their wasn't a difference when temps were between 40 and 85...Which is standard shipping temperatures. So in reality, there isn't really an "upgrade" when going from 1/2" to 1". It was also described in that same thread that building your own boxes is more of a pain/mess then most (myself included) are willing to deal with or put the money into to purchase the appropriate tools. :)
 
Yes Stephanie... he did. As for the tools.... I use a 12" plastic ruler and a box cutter. Not much tied up in tools. :)

I get my foam from Uline.com.... it comes in handy 12x12x1 inch squares.
 
Southern Wolf said:
I use a 12" plastic ruler and a box cutter.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm just super picky (I'll admit it, I am :D), but when I attempted to use a straight edge and a box cutter to cut foam, it was far from professional looking. Sammy mentioned being successful getting clean cuts in styrofoam with a ban saw, that was what I was referring to.
 
Yes... I will admit that with a box cutter it is not always smooth... however using the foam that I am... I put the cut side down towards the bottom and the box looks perfect. I do have a bandsaw I can use in the shop... just havent set down to do a bunch.

As for the 1"..... I see ads for sale all year round... so I know folks are shipping in the winter time.... so why not take the extra precautions to protect your babies by using the 1" foam.

just a thought.
 
Southern Wolf said:
As for the 1"..... I see ads for sale all year round... so I know folks are shipping in the winter time.... so why not take the extra precautions to protect your babies by using the 1" foam.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but most people don't ship in under 40 degree weather (heck, I usually don't ship in under 50 degree weather). Per Sammy's experiment, the 1" doesn't provide any notable temperature protection compared to 1/2". So how can you say that you are taking extra precautions? I don't think there's anything wrong with using 1" over 1/2" (or vice versa), but I do think that it should be clarified that it is not better then using 1/2" unless you're dealing with extreme temperatures (unless you consider it would be harder for the foam to be punctured all the way through; which I can't say I've ever had happen). :)
 
What temps will you NOT ship in?
When do you include a heat pack?
When do you include a cool pack?
Click to expand...

Dan reposted this post from John a couple of years ago and I filed it away.

Hope John doesn't mind me quoting it from 2002 but it is a pretty good guide for heat and cold packs for colubrids .


My shipping method is similar with a couple of minor variations. I use the same boxes Neil referenced from Superior Enterprises. These measure just under a cubic foot and have 1/2 or 3/4 inch foam panels precut to cover all 6 sides.

When shipping neonates, I use prepunched delis exclusively. The danger with the paper towel that the other gentleman mentioned can be eliminated by simply tearing it by hand into one inch strips and then tearing those into smal (1/2 to 1 inch) pieces. About one sheet prepared this way per deli (8 oz) makes for a well cushioned bed for most animals.

Superior sells delis in sizes large enough to hold pretty large adult and subadult animals as well. As long as you use an approprately sized container, this method will work beautifully.

I then tape the delis into small stacks of 2 or 3 using heavy duty Scotch Tape in two bands crisscrossed around each stack. The bottom deli in each stack is then taped to the bottom of the box with a loop of duct tape. This keeps the delis form shifting during shipment. I use loosely crumpled sheets of newspaper to further lock the delis in place. When packed properly in this manner, the animals will not be damaged by the type of jostling that is common with all carriers.

The only major difference in my method is that i have not found it necessary to punch the holes in the top styro panel as was described in the other posts. The shipping boxes mentioned are well insulated but the insulation is not cut to tolerances that make it airtight. I have run several tests with remote thermometers and found that heat will bleed slowly out of the box with no air holes punched at allI also do not. I also do not seal all of the outside cardboard seams. This allows for a very slight exchange of air which could be very beneficial if the package is delayed in transit.

The guidelines I use for heatpacks are.

Destination temperature 37 to 54 = 1 40 hour heatpack
" " 15 to 36 = 2 40 hour heatpacks.

If the destination temperature is below 15 degrees, I give serious consideration to waiting on shipping but I will say that I have shipped to minnesota in sub zero weather at the buyer's insistence (that was 3 heatpacks) and the animals arrived just fine.


I do take into account the hub temperature but not to a great extent. Packages are not usually exposed there for more than an hour or two. What most people don't take into account is that putting an insulated container with an interior temp of 75 and 2 heatpacks still generating into a 32 degree outside temp will not lower the interior temp more than 15 or 20 degerees over a three or four hour period. I have run several tests with remote thermometers and sealed boxes to verify this.

I generally wrap the heatpack loosely in a half sheet of newspaper leaving the ends of the newspaper open (like a tube). I then tape it to one end of the box and place the animals at the opposite end. The crumpled newspaper in between used as packing helps to spread and dissipate the heat evenly.

This same method works perfectly well during the summer with coldpacks. My guidelines are

Destination temp 80 to 88 = 1 coldpack
Destination temp 86 to 94 = 2 coldpacks
Destination temp 95 to 100 = 3 coldpacks.

Slip the packs into a ziploc bag and duct tape them to the opposite end from the animals. Otherwise, the parameters are the same.

Again, I have shipped animals to Las Vegas in 105 daytime temps with no problems at all.

By the way...always check the weather conditions at your buyer's location the night before shipping. I do this very easily at weather.com.

I will say that my experience has only been with colubrids. I am sure that the tolerances would have to be adjusted for the tropical animals that have been previously described. However, using these parameters, I have shipped well over a 1500 animals in the last three years in over 400 individual shipments and not lost a single animal with the exception of one shipment that Airborne "misplaced" at one of their centers for 4 days in the middle of winter. This is definitely not the only system but it is definitely a set of parameters that works.

I hope this info is of use to those of you who are just getting into the shipping aspect of this business.


__________________
John Schmitt

Suncoast Herpetological
Click to expand...
 
You are correct Stephanie.... when I say extra precautions.... I was refering to.... more protection from punctures and temp fluctuations (IE winter / summer). I appreciate Sammy taking the time to do the research on the foam vs temps.... and then taking the time to post his research. Im not saying anyone is doing anything wrong by using 1/2".... I guess my main point was.... if you can get 1" for the same price you can get 1/2".... then why not take the extra thickness so you can ship in most weather. Why store both 1/2" and 1" in order to extend the shipping window... when you can store one thickness to cover both.

I agree that some folks dont have the time or tools to deal with the 1" and thus buy prefab boxes thru Superior or other locations..... Im just trying to spark some conversation... and at the same time... maybe get some information that will help someone that is new to shipping.
 
Thanks Dennis for posting that. I would have never of thought about the duct tape trick to hold the deli cups in place.

Is there a big difference between the 40hr and 60hr heat packs.... I picked up several 60hr.... and I also plan on getting some 40's
 
I do want to clarify that I also only did my tests for periods of only 24 hours (give or take a couple hours). So I cant say what advantage a package getting delayed would have with 1" styro.

Keep in mind that the bulk of my tests were done in temps between 40 and 85 since those are the only temps I will ship in. So that was my main interest area. Now there was a 2-3 degree difference between the 1/2" and 1" styro in my tests between 40 and 85 degrees. But that 2-3 degrees still was in my "happy zone" (72-82) for temps inside the box during shipping. So that is why I felt the temp difference was of no consequence.

Below 30 and over 93 is where the 1" made big jumps. Sometimes as much as ten degrees or more. Even so, I would not ever ship via Fed Ex, UPS, etc, in temps outside of the 40-85 range without the customer giving up their live arrival guarantee. I have lost sales over that and I dont care. I would rather lose a sale than lose one of my babies.
 
Southern Wolf said:
Thanks Dennis for posting that. I would have never of thought about the duct tape trick to hold the deli cups in place.

Is there a big difference between the 40hr and 60hr heat packs.... I picked up several 60hr.... and I also plan on getting some 40's
Click to expand...

Hey Kevin, the following is from Superiors website. Very good info.

CHOOSING THE RIGHT HEAT PACK

1. THERE ARE 20, 30, 40, 60, AND 72 HOURS HEAT PACKS.
2. BESIDES FROM THE DIFFERENT LENGTH OF TIME THAT EACH TYPE OF HEAT PACKS LAST, THEY ALSO HAVE DIFFERENT PEAK TIME AND TEMPERATURE AS WELL AS ACTIVATION TIME.
3. 20 HOURS HEAT PACK ACTIVATE QUICKLY (5-10 MIN.), GET HOTTER THAN THE OTHERS, AND REACH PEAK TEMPERATURE IN APPROXIMATELY 7 HOURS. IT IS GOOD FOR TROPICAL FISH BECAUSE IT TAKES MORE TO HEAT UP WATER THAN AIR. IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO USE IT ALONG WITH THE OTHER HEAT PACKS FOR REPTILE SHIPMENT ORIGINATING FROM A VERY COLD CLIMATE TO ACHEIVED A MORE EVEN TEMPERATURE THROUGHOUT THE TRIP.
4. 30 HOURS HEAT PACK ACTIVATE IN APPROX. 20-30 MINUTES. THE ACTUAL SURFACE TEMPERATURE OF THE HEAT PACK MAY REACH 115 DEGREES AT ITS PEAK WHICH IS NOT AS HOT AS 20 HOURS BUT NOT AS MILD AS 40 HOURS. IT PEAKS BETWEEN 12 TO 14 HOURS.
5. 40 HOURS HEAT PACK ACTIVATE IN APPROX. 40-50 MINUTES. IT IS THE MOST POPULAR TYPE FOR REPTILES, AMPHIBIANS, AND INSECT SHIPPING. THE SURFACE TEMPERATURE IS APPROX. 110 DEGREES AT ITS PEAK. IT RELEASES STEADY TEMPERATURE AND PEAK OUT BETWEEN 17 TO 19 HOURS.
6. 60 AND 72 HOURS HEAT PACK IS SIMILAR TO THE 40 HOURS EXCEPT IT LAST MUCH LONGER AND REACH ITS PEAK TEMPERATURE AT APPROX. 25 TO 28 HOURS. IT IS GREAT FOR EXPORT SHIPMENT OR SHIPPING VIA USPS PRIORITY MAIL.
Click to expand...

In fact, the entire article is worth a read. You can read it all here: http://superiorenterprise.com/information_list.php?tPath=9&osCsid=b881f200130160ba10ce6bea651083cc
 
Thanks Sammy for more info on your testing... and the link and info on the heat packs. Wish I would have had that info before I bought a case of 60's.... oh well... I will have em for emergency use if needed.
 
Southern Wolf said:
I guess my main point was.... if you can get 1" for the same price you can get 1/2".... then why not take the extra thickness so you can ship in most weather. Why store both 1/2" and 1" in order to extend the shipping window... when you can store one thickness to cover both.
Click to expand...

You can't get 1/2" for the same price as 1" unless you're the type to make your own boxes. That's my point. I can ship in my 1/2" in temperatures I deem safe that I will guarantee live arrival just the same as I could 1". Using 1" foam won't cause me to change my guarantee because I still don't think it's safe enough to ship at those super low or super high temperatures because things can happen. The thick vet styrofoam boxes mentioned I could see being more stable because they only have one seam (the lid) and are meant for medical regulated items so I'm sure are regulated in some way.



Sammy, awesome information! :thumbsup:
 
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