Info KINGSNAKE.COM BAD BUSINESS

[JBirgel]

I have been having trouble with this site for the past year or so and now it has come to a final boiling point. I run a small captive breeding business and have been doing so since the early 1990’s. I have been a member of the KS boards for over 10 years and at one time had full use of their site however this all changed a year ago when another incident involving another unscrupulous breeder reached the point of no return. I reported his lousy business here and am still over $10K in the whole because of his lies but enough of that this thread is about how Kingnsake.com has taken my money and refused to give it back. I recently began building another reptile business and put forth $35.00 to purchase a three month stint on the KS classifieds under my credit card. KS promptly banned my account and kept my money. I have not heard one word as to why they continue to ban me from selling animals on their site but I have a good rep in all other forums and sites. I understand that last year I let my anger get the better of me when a certain breeder proved to be a bad guy but is over a year of being banned fit the crime? I don’t believe so. I have sent letters to all of their departments and will continue doing so but now I am out $35.00 bucks more and have received no service for it. They have also banned my mothers account and a friends account for no apparent reason as some may know my mother plays a big part in the keeping of several boas in my collection and her being blacklisted by KS is just wrong and un called for. Incase you're wondering know I have not ever abused my privileges in her name on that or any other site.

JKB Reptiles will no longer patron Kingsnake.com until this ban is lifted, there is nothing that I have done that requires being blacklisted by this one site but the good news is the Fauna and other sites will see my advertising dollars come through to them. I look forward to seeing all of my past and future customers on the other better sites.

JKB

 

[Rextiles]

I would definitely call the credit card company, explain the circumstances, and have them reverse the charges which should be a fairly easy thing to do. That way at least you aren't out the $35.

 

[JBirgel]

Banned for Life from KS ?????

I really am not sure were I should post this but I feel this is the proper section because in many ways it is an inquire into KINGSNAKE.COM's business practices and my banning. I have been trying to get un banned from their site for over a year now. i was originally banned because i lost my temper with a breeder who misrepresented his animals and sold me fake hets and has never made it right nor will he. I used there email service to slam him and call him names, yes I know that very professional but hey the guy stole money from me and lied and still lies to this day but oh well that is the way life is I guess.

My main inquiry is how the heck do i get through to KS to fix this so i have a place to advertise animals?

How do i keep them from banning my other family members?
They banned my Mom? She has done nothing to them and I have not used her id.

They banned a collaborative business venture because I used my credit card? Is that even legal?

Here is a sample letter I have sen them... They refuse to contact me in any form...

Good day to you,
For many years I used kingnsake.com as a place publish pictures of several animals that I have produced, I have added valuable information and news to the forums for both new and old members and I have used your classified section to sell animals that I have produced. Sometime last year I was banned from the use of your classified section because I sent emails through your network to a breeder who sold me fake hets and misrepresented animals. I know that the emails I sent were derogatory and cruel and I should have handled myself in a much more professional matter however I did not and I do apologize for this. My banning has lasted over a year at this point and I hope that you and the rest of the KS community would of seen it right to lift the ban on me. I have done nothing so terrible to have such a ban placed on myself and as I have seen you have continued it on to other members of my family which is a violation of your very own terms of service. I can be under standing about my banning but to ban my mother who has done nothing but good towards this hobby and this community is just preposterous. She has sent your company emails and has never even heard anything back about her membership and neither have I. Is it your practice as a company to just go on ignoring me? Well, I have proven time and time again that I am not about to go away I will continue emailing these emails until someone at your company decides to speak with me. I would like to be return to your site in order to advertise animals for sale. I currently have over $20,000.00 in stock that I would like to advertise in the classifieds and as I sell those animals it will allow me to expand my advertising budget so that down the road I can purchase banner ads on your site. I advertise on other sites just fine with no issues what so ever but I would like to include your site as well I learned my lesson and do not believe that a continued banning of me and my business is necessary anymore. I hope you read this a feel the same as I do about this issue and I hope to rejoin your business community.
Sincerely,
John K. Birgel
JKBREPTILES.COM
908-278-6496

 

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

Hmm...yet another reason why I never chose to become a member there.

Sorry to hear about your difficulties. I hope the situation gets resolved somehow, although it sounds like you might be better off not associating with their community if thats how they treat folks. I know this is not the first such incident regarding KS.

 

[JBirgel]

I'm not giving up the fight.. I will keep on emailing them until some one over there calls me

 

[JBirgel]

So now the plot thickens, for the first time in a year they send good ol Kevin Hanley at me, he claims I stiffed him for $75.00 ... Well he design my web site and I paid in full he was supposed to supply me with a cd for back up of my website but he NEVER sent it, my site had difficulties one day and all data was lost so i asked Kevin if he had the back up cd, and low and behold he did. All of a sudden he decided it was going to cost me $75.00 to get the cd and upload the site. So yes I never sent the $75.00 because I don't think I should have to since a cd was never supplied most of all and what does that have to do with KS it is not a bad business deal with KS... By the way i was not banned in 2004 back when Kevin hanley tried to collect another $75.00 for something he neglected to do and he tells the KS coordinators they bette make sure my check clears.. I say you better make sure Kevin Hanely sticks to a deal... Hmmm... But hey that all went down in 2004 and I was banned in 2007.... what's the time delay for???

Kevins emails


arfter going through old invoices you did indeed stiff me for $75 in in 2004 for setting up your website on yahoo. We continued to ask for payment until nov 2004 and never were paid.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Hanley
To: John Birgel
Cc: kevin hanley
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Welcome to Yahoo! Web Hosting


you picked a host with some very odd setup issues.

your site has been uploaded.

Amount due $75

Paypal [email protected]

or you can send it to:

Kevin and Sue Hanley
5730 South Saint Andrews Dr.
New Berlin WI 53146

thanks,

kevin


The computer I had the email reply back to is long gone, but I replied to him and said I didn't think I should pay the money because i was never supplied the orignal back up cd.

 

[JBirgel]

So here we are, Kevin Hanley says I never paid him, i agree i didn't because as stated above i do not belive i should pay for additional service after the original service were never completed. I think he owed me an upload and still owes me a cd..... Yet, this has what do with KS banning me??

 

[JBirgel]

So Hanley is skating around the fact he never sent me the original cd and KS is just skating around, still no phone call from them and Hanley prefers to use email.
I'll openly admit that i agreed to sen dhim money for the upload in 2004 but then after i thought it over an dknew i did not get the cd I sent an email telling him that the original agrement was for a cd and why did I never get a back up cd but he has neglected to send that email, just the ones before i thought of him neglecting to sen dme the original cd.

So shoudl I pay Him?? Will it get my account back up on KS?? What do you all think???

 

[nickstone]

Isn't this in regards to the same matter you started a thread about on 10/22? I don't understand why you felt the need to clutter up the BOI with another thread on the same subject. I'm not sticking up for KS but in your sample email above you clearly admit to violating there TOS

I know that the emails I sent were derogatory and cruel and I should have handled myself in a much more professional matter

So here's what happens

"Intentional / Repeat Violations of TOS - Anyone intentionally violating this TOS, or continuing to violate this TOS after receiving notice/warning of a TOS violation is subject to having their account privileges restricted or terminated with no warning or notice. If you receive a TOS violation notice, take no corrective action, and violate the same section of the TOS again, your account privileges may be restricted or terminated with no warning or notice."
"Be aware that if you violate our Terms Of Service, OnlineHobbyist.com, Inc. may delete or edit your messages, contact your internet service provider, have your account terminated, cancel your advertising, and/or block your access to our web site. PetHobbyist.com and its affiliated communities reserve the right to terminate any account, refuse service, or limit access at our discretion. "

As far as them blocking your mom, if shes trying to get on under the same IP address this is probably what they're thinking. Even if it's not they're probably assuming the animals are yours.

"Anyone who has had their account terminated for complaints, violations of our terms of service, or any other site bans may NOT re-register in any format, under any circumstances. Attempting to circumvent this system by registering under the name of a friend, family member, or any form of alias, will cause that account to be immediately terminated, and you will be prosecuted for fraud. Anyone who knowingly assists someone in fraudulently obtaining an account will have their site services canceled and will themselves be banned, and prosecuted for fraud"

If there actions and the way they handle things on ks are wrong or right could be a whole other discussion. Bottom line, you broke THEIR rules and got banned, I don't see whats so hard to understand about that.

 

[JBirgel]

Nick,

Plenty of other people have been banned for doing far worse, plastering Obscenities all over the forums and yet they have there accounts back. I get why I was banned but to keep banning me after a year? I don't think the punishment fits the crime.... They seem to be bannign me for other reasons not related to the orignal bannign either.. I'll just keep emailing them and chipping away

 

[JBirgel]

Ok so let's see it took a week for them to give my money back... I hear good ol KS keeps a file on trouble makers well that is just fine keep a file, but i don't deserve to be banned like this, what ever happen to free enterprise... Hey Kevin how about you tell Jeff the truth.... since it all seems to tie together.. How about you show the all the names involved in that email instead of editing and deleting areas...

 

[jasballs]

KS is Great IMHO! Yes I have been banned from there several times. But a nice little letter to The Senor mod has always worked out for me. Meaning I stayed in touch with them on when my ban would be lifted.

 

[Wraith]

So here we are, Kevin Hanley says I never paid him, i agree i didn't

You acknowledged that you broke their TOS with your harassment laced emails to another user. That is a ban-able offense. Stop whining about not being allowed back on their site.

You acknowledge that you never paid K. Hanley for services he provided you. That is a ban-able offense. Stop whining about not being allowed back on their site.

You tried to set up another account on their site in violation of their rules. That is a ban-able offense. Stop whining about not being allowed back on their site.

# Using our site's email system for the purpose of harassing or sending obscene materials, profanity, or racial, sexual, personal, or religious slurs or personal attacks to another registered user is a violation and may be grounds for immediate termination of your account.

# Any complaints of non-delivery of goods, non-payment of goods received, or theft are cause for immediate suspension of your account.

# Anyone who has had their account terminated for complaints, violations of our terms of service, or any other site bans may NOT re-register in any format, under any circumstances. Attempting to circumvent this system by registering under the name of a friend, family member, or any form of alias, will cause that account to be immediately terminated, and you will be prosecuted for fraud. Anyone who knowingly assists someone in fraudulently obtaining an account will have their site services canceled and will themselves be banned, and prosecuted for fraud.

# Use of our sites and services is a privilege and not a right. Be aware that if you violate our Terms Of Service, OnlineHobbyist.com, Inc. may delete or edit your messages, contact your internet service provider, have your account terminated, cancel your advertising, and/or block your access to our web site. We reserve the right to refuse service, limit access, or terminate a user's site privileges at our discretion.

If for some delusional reason you feel that you simply MUST have access to their site's services and your feelings are hurt because they won't let you back on after you broke their rules on more than one occasion ... fine feel that way. Why don't you have your lawyer contact their lawyer to get things straightened out. Coming here won't do a damn bit of good. Everyone knows that KS will NOT come here and argue with you about your hurt feelings or any preconceived misunderstandings you might have regarding how to follow their site rules.

 

[JBirgel]

First off I am not whining about this situation, secondly I wanted to bring this situation to light for all that it is and I am not stating that I am in the right I am stating that I made mistake and want to make good for it and am asking for another chance from KS. I will do right by Kevin but it was KS that through him in the ring and it has nothing to do with my banning.

 

[Lucille]

I have been having trouble with this site for the past year or so and now it has come to a final boiling point.

I am stating that I made mistake and want to make good for it and am asking for another chance from KS.

Birgel.

This is the wrong venue to be asking favors from KS.

And you started a 'bad business' post about them. Frankly, if I was a site after all that I wouldn't want your advertising dollars.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

First off I am not whining about this situation, secondly I wanted to bring this situation to light for all that it is and I am not stating that I am in the right I am stating that I made mistake and want to make good for it and am asking for another chance from KS. I will do right by Kevin but it was KS that through him in the ring and it has nothing to do with my banning.

John

The problem is that you are under the mistaken impression that, due to the fact that they have reinstated others, your banning was temporary. It is their site and if they deem what you did objectionable enough, they can mete out whatever punishment they see fit.

Lucille is 100% correct. If I were to make a list of all the possible methods that there were to convince them to take me back.....a Bad Guy post on Fauna would not be on it.


Someone needs to design a pooch screwing smiley. That is the exact thing that has happened here.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

You also mentioned "What about free enterprise?" in one of your posts. That one works both ways. In this instance, I believe Kingsnake's side is

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone we decide we do not want on our site"

You seem to think you have some sort of right to be allowed back on their site......you don't

 

[JBirgel]

I am not under any mistaken impression.
I am going to make things right between Kevin and myself.
I do not believe I have the right to be a member of of KS but I do believe I have the privilege.

I came to fauna to air this situation because I know there are many with the same problem.

I gave no false pretenses and admitted my own wrong doing and yes I am willing to make things right...

 

[bsharrah]

I am not under any mistaken impression.
I am going to make things right between Kevin and myself.
I do not believe I have the right to be a member of of KS but I do believe I have the privilege.

I came to fauna to air this situation because I know there are many with the same problem.

I gave no false pretenses and admitted my own wrong doing and yes I am willing to make things right...

You will never get your ban lifted. Get over it and get on with life. The fact that you aired this out here is reason enough for them to never lift your ban, even if you made everything else right. The moment you posted this thread your fate was sealed. How did you ever come to the conclusion that posting this thread on the BOI would help your situation with KS?

Bart

 

[JBirgel]

Bart,

It's been over a year.....