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Xeno eating his first RAT! WOO!

Mooing Tricycle

Mooing Tricycle

Misanthrope / Childfree
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I was hesitant to try this guy on rats, only because... i wasnt sure he'd eat them, and i didnt want to throw him off feed! So i was just feeding him a bunch of mice at a time. Today i figured id give it a shot, and toss him a nice medium sized rat.

He apparently has gotten comfortable enough with living here, that he even didnt wait for me to put his tub back into the rack. I put the lid on, and got to watch him IMMEDIATELY strike and constrict!

Im officially happy to say, I think hes doing absolutely splendidly for me, and i think from here on out, it should be smooth sailing with this feller!!!

0013z1cw
 
i am just getting into the non-boid thing, what exactly is he. i am assuming some type of colubrid due to constricting??
 
reticguy76 said:
i am just getting into the non-boid thing, what exactly is he. i am assuming some type of colubrid due to constricting??
Click to expand...

Hes a Sunbeam Snake, Better known as Xenopeltis unicolor.

Theyre a southeast Asian colubrid, that loves high humidity and deep burrowing substrate, and as little contact with YOU as you can manage :D Otherwise, theyre awesome snakes, and actually pretty simple to care for if you can keep up with your husbandry.

Nearly ALL of the captive population of these animals are wild caught. They are very very rarely bred in captivity, but were getting there, more people are taking an interest in them it seems, which is a good thing.

If you decide you want one, get a FEEDING animal, and get it dewormed as well. ( they will come in with parasites, i guarantee it )
 
they look really interesting, what are their lenths and how fast to they grow. my fwc loves to burrow, luckily, dont really need to keep the ambient temps of her cage real high, due to she loves to be either burrowed in substrate or she is swimming in her water
 
Technically, they're not colubrids, but members of their own family, Xenopeltidae. Because they're such an obscure little group of snakes, they aren't always incorporated into studies, but they universally winds up near pythons, though their morphology is substantially more primitive in many ways.

While it's not very technically correct, the best thing to call them would be "primitive snakes".
 
Oh No!!
The Zinjanthropus of the snake kingdom.

Hey, congrats on getting one that eats well. Don't wait too long to start your breeding program and I might be looking to purchase a CB from you.
 
Mokele said:
Technically, they're not colubrids, but members of their own family, Xenopeltidae. Because they're such an obscure little group of snakes, they aren't always incorporated into studies, but they universally winds up near pythons, though their morphology is substantially more primitive in many ways.

While it's not very technically correct, the best thing to call them would be "primitive snakes".
Click to expand...


You know, Good point.... thanks for correcting that! I dont really know WHERE i got the colubrid bit from * i may have seen them called colubrids randomly on the web?* . I was just kinda... going with it, there. *shrugs* I knew they were not like typical snakes that you find elsewhere due to the way the skull is "put together" and such.


I believe the word most people use is Fossorial ( at least all the pages that DO have information on them, which, to be honest is seriously lacking!). Which, makes sense.

There should be more studies on them... theyre awesome animals, remind me of the Eastern Mud snakes kinda sorta. :)
 
John E Dove said:
Oh No!!
The Zinjanthropus of the snake kingdom.

Hey, congrats on getting one that eats well. Don't wait too long to start your breeding program and I might be looking to purchase a CB from you.
Click to expand...

Thanks alot John :D I really hope that id be successful in breeding them! It would really mean a ton to me!

maybe in the summer ill get a nice big girl and get her all acclimated and such. I want to make sure i get one thats big like this guy. Then im going to be doing some serious research as to the climates where they live, and seeing if i can find out when people find eggs there * or babies at least* and going from there. I want to try to mimic everything i can for them over here.
 
You know, Good point.... thanks for correcting that! I dont really know WHERE i got the colubrid bit from * i may have seen them called colubrids randomly on the web?* . I was just kinda... going with it, there. *shrugs*
Click to expand...

Well, they're in a weird place on the snake family tree that doesn't really accord well with any terms we commonly use. Even "primitive snake" isn't technically right, since no animal is truly primitive (they've all been evolving for exactly the same length of time), but can have primitive traits. But "A snake with primitive osteological and anatomical characters" is a bit of a mouthful.

I knew they were not like typical snakes that you find elsewhere due to the way the skull is "put together" and such.
Click to expand...

Here's a link you may like: Full 3D animations of a CAT scanned sunbeam snake skull

I believe the word most people use is Fossorial ( at least all the pages that DO have information on them, which, to be honest is seriously lacking!). Which, makes sense. There should be more studies on them... theyre awesome animals, remind me of the Eastern Mud snakes kinda sorta.
Click to expand...

Well, fossorial technically refers to their burrowing (hence the similarity to mud snakes).

As for studies, Nate Kley from SUNY Stonybrook has been using them (along with a wide assortment of other snakes) in his research on feeding. Apparently they're capable of far more jaw expansion than you'd think with a skull like theirs, almost as much as some pythons.

maybe in the summer ill get a nice big girl and get her all acclimated and such. I want to make sure i get one thats big like this guy. Then im going to be doing some serious research as to the climates where they live, and seeing if i can find out when people find eggs there * or babies at least* and going from there. I want to try to mimic everything i can for them over here.
Click to expand...

Let me know if you find a scientific paper you need access to; I can get most of the journals in pdf format.

Unfortunately, some guesswork may be involved - a lot of fossorial snakes don't have much fieldwork done on them.

Mokele
 
Mokele said:
But "A snake with primitive osteological and anatomical characters" is a bit of a mouthful.
Click to expand...

lol i like it! ( but i like the latin for them better than i do the common name too... im weird like that.


Mokele said:
Here's a link you may like: Full 3D animations of a CAT scanned sunbeam snake skull
Click to expand...

you know, ive seen those before, the images at least. i never actually LOOKED at the quicktime movies of the slices/scans. Holy COOL. I never opened up my guys mouth to notice that they have two rows of upper teeth! THAT, is wicked! But i did know that their teeth are actually attached to... What are they called? little ligaments? so they move inside the jaw. * im pretty sure im remembering that right* Which is something i thought was really really neat.

Mokele said:
Well, fossorial technically refers to their burrowing (hence the similarity to mud snakes).

As for studies, Nate Kley from SUNY Stonybrook has been using them (along with a wide assortment of other snakes) in his research on feeding. Apparently they're capable of far more jaw expansion than you'd think with a skull like theirs, almost as much as some pythons.
Click to expand...

Ah, i understand now.

I never really thought about the expansion much. ( would make me wary of feeding large prey) What exactly did he find out? ( if you want to point me to his research, id be happy to look)


Mokele said:
Let me know if you find a scientific paper you need access to; I can get most of the journals in pdf format.

Unfortunately, some guesswork may be involved - a lot of fossorial snakes don't have much fieldwork done on them.

Mokele
Click to expand...

Thanks a bunch, i really do appreciate that. It really might come in handy once i start to get looking for the info ( i sporadically do now and then, and have some pages printed up about the weather and such)

I dont mind messing with the guesswork, i plan on talking to some of the others who have bred them as well to see if they will share any information in regards to temperatures the eggs were incubated at and such, and whatever else they might have going for them. :) Im going to keep notes on it, so i can later put it up somewhere online. Id really really love to see a captive bred population in the states, instead of WC stuff.
 
lol i like it! ( but i like the latin for them better than i do the common name too... im weird like that.
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm with you on that, though I'm rather annoyed by the tendency for them to change so frequently, especially without waiting for approval from the ICZN. The whole "Pantherophis" thing still crops up, and the re-naming was rejected about 2 years ago.

you know, ive seen those before, the images at least. i never actually LOOKED at the quicktime movies of the slices/scans. Holy COOL. I never opened up my guys mouth to notice that they have two rows of upper teeth! THAT, is wicked! But i did know that their teeth are actually attached to... What are they called? little ligaments? so they move inside the jaw. * im pretty sure im remembering that right* Which is something i thought was really really neat.
Click to expand...

Actually, most snakes have that. A pair of bones which formerly were the roof of the mouth have been reduced the struts running parallel to the maxilla, and now bear teeth. They're capable of moving independently from the maxilla, and they play a big role in swallowing large prey. There are several muscles and ligaments associated with them, and in vipers, they're part of the complex system that swings the fangs forwards.

You can use this cladogram to see all the other scans they've put in so far (snakes are just lumped in with lizards)

Sadly, they don't have the weirdest one, Bitia hydroides, a bizarre homalopsine snake from SE Asia where instead of enlarging the maxillary teeth like an Amazon Tree Boa, they've enlarged the palatine teeth, which should obstruct feeding. Unfortunately, they're rarely been seen alive, and we only have a handful of specimens, so the best we can figure is that it has something to do with the gobies in their stomachs.

I never really thought about the expansion much. ( would make me wary of feeding large prey) What exactly did he find out? ( if you want to point me to his research, id be happy to look)
Click to expand...

Well, it's all preliminary right now, but he's been feeding them things 3+ times their head size with little difficulty. The paper will be out eventually, but he's still gathering the data at the moment.

Id really really love to see a captive bred population in the states, instead of WC stuff.
Click to expand...

Ditto; I love obscure and strange species, especially sunbeams, but I've never bumped into any when I've had the time to really care for them.
 
Mokele said:
Actually, most snakes have that. A pair of bones which formerly were the roof of the mouth have been reduced the struts running parallel to the maxilla, and now bear teeth. They're capable of moving independently from the maxilla, and they play a big role in swallowing large prey. There are several muscles and ligaments associated with them, and in vipers, they're part of the complex system that swings the fangs forwards.
Click to expand...

you know, now that i think of it.... im being kinda silly. ( actually entirely stupid) Ive been bitten by snakes before, and have noticed the double rows of teeth. I just got... excited, seeing it on the scans. Since i dont really open the snakes mouths all that much. * only on occasion to take debris out, if they got some bedding on their food* *headdesk* Totally forgetting being bitten, and what the heck a bite looks like.

Wow i feel silly....:ack2::rolleyes:
 
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