Forum sponsorships

[WebSlave]

I'm not sure how to handle this.....

Although I would certainly like to have as many sponsors as possible for each forum, I don't believe I can have an UNLIMITED number. I just received another sponsor request for the Ball Python Classifieds forum, but there are already 11 sponsors there. Which is making it look kind of crowded -> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=499

With each new sponsor, the actual ad displays get pushed further and further down the page, which is going to (if not already) start pissing people off that they have to scroll down so far in order to READ those ads.

I think the cutoff should have been at ten (10) sponsors, but I feel kind of foolish doing that, in that I have already stated that the BOI is in jeopardy because of lack of funding for this site in general. So this will definitely be a conflict to wrestle with. Yeah, I know there will not be any 100 percent consensus about how to handle this, and I'm pretty much just thinking out loud here......

Hmm, perhaps a sponsor section for the BOI? But at a much higher price? I've already done some testing and can embed a graphics banner for each sponsor, so maybe that would be attractive to some? But the drawback there is that the graphics themselves will slow down the page load for all viewers. It most definitely is the most viewed forum on this site, and the one in most jeopardy of being removed in the near future, so maybe I need to think about this a little bit more seriously....

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I'm not sure how to handle this.....

Although I would certainly like to have as many sponsors as possible for each forum, I don't believe I can have an UNLIMITED number. I just received another sponsor request for the Ball Python Classifieds forum, but there are already 11 sponsors there. Which is making it look kind of crowded -> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=499

With each new sponsor, the actual ad displays get pushed further and further down the page, which is going to (if not already) start pissing people off that they have to scroll down so far in order to READ those ads.

I think the cutoff should have been at ten (10) sponsors, but I feel kind of foolish doing that, in that I have already stated that the BOI is in jeopardy because of lack of funding for this site in general. So this will definitely be a conflict to wrestle with. Yeah, I know there will not be any 100 percent consensus about how to handle this, and I'm pretty much just thinking out loud here......

Hmm, perhaps a sponsor section for the BOI? But at a much higher price? I've already done some testing and can embed a graphics banner for each sponsor, so maybe that would be attractive to some? But the drawback there is that the graphics themselves will slow down the page load for all viewers. It most definitely is the most viewed forum on this site, and the one in most jeopardy of being removed in the near future, so maybe I need to think about this a little bit more seriously....

Would a link to sponsors on another page work?

Rotating sponsors on each page load?

Maybe listing the first ten and then a link to the rest? Rotating sponsor banners when you click on each ad?

I don't know just throwing out suggestions at first thought.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

i think rotating is fair. I dont think another page would be, as everyone would just ignore it.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Rotating, if it's even an option based on the avaliable software, would fix the page length issue but would itself give rise to an exposure issue- there's a limit to how many different businesses can be included in a rotation schedule while maintaining it's value.

Admittedly, I suspect this number is higher than eleven- so it's a stop-gap solution that would allow for some more sponsors but it doesn't seem like it'd be a permanent solution to open ended growth.

 

[Lucille]

So I went to look at KS. They have a list of biz's on the bottom of their opening page and you can click on them and go to the biz's website. For this listing the business pays $150/year. There were 6 colums of approx. 100 businesses list so that is 600 x $150 is $90,000 a year. That has nothing to do with significant income from classifieds, that is just a biz listing service.
I randomly clicked on some of the businesses and they have counters, and many of the businesses counted clicks in the thousands so I would think the $150 is well worth it to them.
Perhaps such a list of BOI sponsorships on the bottom of the first page of the BOI would draw even more traffic clicks for the benefit of listed businesses based on the volume of people who visit the BOI daily.

 

[Jerry_c_62]

Rich started the think out loud thing so I am going to run with it. In regard to sponsoring the BOI. I do go to the BOI almost every day. I want to keep it here for myself and for others. I really think it is the one aspect of this hobby that you can't get any place else.

My collection is small, but growing. I have at least one animal that I am willing to dedicate to the BOI. What I am saying is this, take one animal, more if you can afford it, dedicate a pecentage of the income from that animal to supporting the BOI.

If we, the people who appreciate what this site has to offer, come up with a backing body, stock holders if you will. To keep it, mostly the BOI, running it will help us all. Sure people will ride our coat tails, but Rich has had a lot of people on his coat tails for a LONG TIME. I'm sure I have said before, or meant to say, if the BOI goes away what would you do to get it back? By then it may be to late.

I am going to post this. Then consider what I have in my collection, as well as what percentage of it I would be willing to give up to keep this site and the BOI alive. I, myself, do not have the ability to do this. However, consider if 10 of us would dedicate a percentage of one or two animals, how about 100 of us?

Before I change my mind I am going to post this. Rip away if you feel you must. I'm going to go check out some snakes.

Jerry Cross

 

[wyldwurm]

Perhaps making sub forums in the BP section would give you more solution. For example, in the main BP section, include one subsection for normals, one for hets and one for visual morphs. This would triple your as space. Just a thought.

 

[jasballs]

Rich, May sound dumb But couldnt you do it like the banner on the top of this page? Just have all there banners rotating and you can click on them when you see a name or banner that catches your interest. Just a thought.

 

[TattooLost]

Any way to make the links smaller? Kinda like KS does, when they're just like a 1/2" x 1" clickable link?

Hell, even teh size of the sig pics would probably work.

 

[AvandisFifth187]

Banners

I do think the rotating banners would be the best option. If you do decide to make another page just to show sponsors, than to help them get the exposure, you could make a banner that links to the sponsor page.

 

[TattooLost]

Honestly, I can hear it now... If you make the banners rotate randomly, you're going to hear complaints that so-and-so's banner isn't showing up NEARLY as much as so-and-so's... and I have a feeling even it it rotated in order, there's going to be a perceived uneven ratio. I honestly think that trying to make smaller links, where they'll all fit and all show at the same time is the best way to go.

Just my $.02.

 

[WebSlave]

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, there is not going to be any perfect solution to this. And do I really want to incur the additional expense of yet another custom programming mod that will bite me again everytime an upgrade comes due? It is already quite expensive as it is to do an upgrade here, and I don't want it to become so cost prohibitive that any money made on this site goes straight to my programmer for his work maintaining it.

See one of the problems (and in other situations one of it's strengths) of vBulletin is that it is template driven. So every forum's appearance is controlled by a template that makes them all look the same. So unless you put coding in place that tells the program to act differently based on what forum number it is, then a change in the template shows up in all of them. For instance, in the code for the GGC listing, I had to tell the code to treat that forum differently by putting the threads into alphabetical order. That capability is not native in vBulletin at all.

A further complication is that I am actually using vbulletin in a manner for which it was not designed to do. Those sponsor slots are all actually subforum titles, as far as vBulletin is concerned. Heck, even the subscription plans here are being used differently from what the designers had in mind.

Some things work and some things don't work. But when you throw custom programming into the mix as well, things can get pretty messy...

 

[Bill & Amy]

So you have to scroll a little farther down the screen. If they want to pay for the space and it will help keep this place running, who cares. It only takes a second to scroll past their names. I wouldn't care if the list was 30 names long.

 

[TattooLost]

So you have to scroll a little farther down the screen. If they want to pay for the space and it will help keep this place running, who cares. It only takes a second to scroll past their names. I wouldn't care if the list was 30 names long.

True. I already have to scroll down a full screen to see the bp ads. doesn't bother me any. People that go to look at the ads are going to do that regardless of how far they have to scroll down I s'pose.

 

[Tiger Lilly]

Dead websites

So you have to scroll a little farther down the screen. If they want to pay for the space and it will help keep this place running, who cares. It only takes a second to scroll past their names. I wouldn't care if the list was 30 names long.

True. I already have to scroll down a full screen to see the bp ads. doesn't bother me any. People that go to look at the ads are going to do that regardless of how far they have to scroll down I s'pose.

with both. You could also consider putting some of them at the bottom of the page and rotating them from top to bottom as well; or charging less for ones at the bottom, should they feel slighted.
Personally, I'd pay more attention to them at the bottom when I go to another page than I do at the top, but that's just me.

Also, what about removing links to websites that are no longer in business?
I know they've paid their fee, but (eg., Pink Lady Constrictors) if they are done, can't they be contacted about removing the link? I wouldn't think they would deserve a refund if it wasn't due to Rich just kicking them off. Does that make sense the way I wrote it?
I am looking forward, one day, to being a sponsor, Rich. Right now, buying sponsorship on the BOI sounds pretty good to me!

 

[WebSlave]

with both. You could also consider putting some of them at the bottom of the page and rotating them from top to bottom as well; or charging less for ones at the bottom, should they feel slighted.
Personally, I'd pay more attention to them at the bottom when I go to another page than I do at the top, but that's just me.

Also, what about removing links to websites that are no longer in business?
I know they've paid their fee, but (eg., Pink Lady Constrictors) if they are done, can't they be contacted about removing the link? I wouldn't think they would deserve a refund if it wasn't due to Rich just kicking them off. Does that make sense the way I wrote it?
I am looking forward, one day, to being a sponsor, Rich. Right now, buying sponsorship on the BOI sounds pretty good to me!

Actually setting up the sponsor links as it stands right now is a fully manual process that I have to do. There are no notices when the sponsor's year is up. I just have to try to remember to check the subscription plans once every once in a while and try to figure out which ones have expired. It isn't as easy as it may seem, because the text in the link doesn't always match up with a registered member name. So it can be a bit of a challenge. And time consuming, which at some times of the year, just can't happen.

As for putting links at the bottom of the page, that would require custom programming to implement. Quite honestly, when the time comes where I have to figure out if I can afford to keep the BOI or not, that bottom line figure is going to make or break that decision. Piling on more expenses with custom programming just may not be the smart thing to do right now. Yeah, it might generate some positive cash flow, but if my past efforts are any guide, I would have to think that probably won't happen.

My programmer doesn't like the script I use to run the banner ads on this site. He says they take up too much processor time and bandwidth and slow this site down dramatically. That may be so, but that FaunaAds.com has been a lifesaver to me by being fully automated. Otherwise I just could not handle the details running the ads manually would entail. I am looking at a different script right now, but unless the new guys can do a conversion from the old database, that could be it's own nightmare. But I do have to do something because the developers recently abandoned that old banner ad script, so the writing is really on the wall about that one.

I'll bet this all looks easy from the outside, eh?

 

[Tiger Lilly]

Shoot no, like I said, I don't know how you do it. I didn't just mean dealing with the crap on the other thread, I mean ALL of it. I worked in the computer field for about 10 years, but it was the installing hardware & trouble-shooting hardware problems. I've seen what programmers go through--they can have it! Now if you want me to test the program to make sure it does what it should, or try to find the weak spots & 'break' it, I'm your gal! I was always good at throwing out suggestions, too...and getting answers as to why it wouldn't work. It's all good--I'm always thinkin'!

 

[Seamus Haley]

I'm um... I'm going to restate a few of the issues without offering a solution. I'm just poking holes in some of the other suggestions. I'm being that guy.

The issue with the current method as I understand it is that the pages display a set number of threads when the forum is loaded and those forum sponsor links are using some of those slots. The more forum sponsors there are, the fewer slots remain for threads on that page. Given that there have been recent threads, specifically about the ball python classifieds, where some people weren't too happy with the speed at which their ads were being pushed to the second page (admittedly for different reasons but...), there's some concern with the idea of just allowing the sponsor slots to eat page length indefinitely. There's a point of balance, I'm not sure what it is though, where the sponsor links are actually detracting from the ability of users to post ads and for the classified section to function as intended. People apply a pretty good deal of importance to that first page status of a fresh ad, the more sponsors, the fewer ads are on the first page, the faster ads drop to page two.

A rotating ad has two big problems inherent in it.

First is the cost of the custom programming, if the programming costs more than the sponsorship generates, it's not a cost effective way of handling an overflow of willing sponsors for a specific forum. It'll cost Rich extra money to put in place rather than helping him save some by allowing another sponsor slot.

Secondly, rotating ads have a value based specifically on the number of possible ads in the rotation and the total number of page views. Using simple numbers (rather than accurate numbers), let's say that the ball forum page is opened 100 times a day (it's obviously loaded a LOT more). Right now, each forum sponsor gets their name and link seen by 100 of those people who open the forum. If there were a rotating ad, they'd be dividing the page views between them. He mentioned that there were ten sponsors already on that forum, they'd each be getting ten views instead of one hundred, which is a substantially lower value to them as an advertiser. If the idea is to let extra sponsors in, the value for each sponsor would go down every time a new one is added. A page could potentially display more than one sponsor... using mini-logos in the available space and there are obviously a lot more than 100 views to that forum on a daily basis but the division (and subsequent reduction per sponsor) of value remains a factor unless the total number of page views grows faster than the number of additional sponsors.

 

[WebSlave]

I'm um... I'm going to restate a few of the issues without offering a solution. I'm just poking holes in some of the other suggestions. I'm being that guy.

The issue with the current method as I understand it is that the pages display a set number of threads when the forum is loaded and those forum sponsor links are using some of those slots. The more forum sponsors there are, the fewer slots remain for threads on that page. Given that there have been recent threads, specifically about the ball python classifieds, where some people weren't too happy with the speed at which their ads were being pushed to the second page (admittedly for different reasons but...), there's some concern with the idea of just allowing the sponsor slots to eat page length indefinitely. There's a point of balance, I'm not sure what it is though, where the sponsor links are actually detracting from the ability of users to post ads and for the classified section to function as intended. People apply a pretty good deal of importance to that first page status of a fresh ad, the more sponsors, the fewer ads are on the first page, the faster ads drop to page two.

Not quite. The sponsor links are actually treated as subforums so they do not take the place of any actual threads (ads) in the classified forum itself.

The problem is that the more sponsor links there are, the further down the page they will push the actual ads that people are coming to that forum to see. My concern is that at some point the excessive amount of scrolling down the page to get to the meat on the plate may get people to walk away from the dinner table. I don't know where that point will be, or even if it has reached that point for some people already. I'm trying to head off reaching this point of diminishing returns that seems likely to be reached.

A rotating ad has two big problems inherent in it.

First is the cost of the custom programming, if the programming costs more than the sponsorship generates, it's not a cost effective way of handling an overflow of willing sponsors for a specific forum. It'll cost Rich extra money to put in place rather than helping him save some by allowing another sponsor slot.

Secondly, rotating ads have a value based specifically on the number of possible ads in the rotation and the total number of page views. Using simple numbers (rather than accurate numbers), let's say that the ball forum page is opened 100 times a day (it's obviously loaded a LOT more). Right now, each forum sponsor gets their name and link seen by 100 of those people who open the forum. If there were a rotating ad, they'd be dividing the page views between them. He mentioned that there were ten sponsors already on that forum, they'd each be getting ten views instead of one hundred, which is a substantially lower value to them as an advertiser. If the idea is to let extra sponsors in, the value for each sponsor would go down every time a new one is added. A page could potentially display more than one sponsor... using mini-logos in the available space and there are obviously a lot more than 100 views to that forum on a daily basis but the division (and subsequent reduction per sponsor) of value remains a factor unless the total number of page views grows faster than the number of additional sponsors.

Well there are other concerns with the rotating banner scenario. The code to run that rotation has some substantial overhead involved. For each page view, the code for the rotating banner ad does to FaunaAds.com and requests a chunk of code to be displayed on the host site (FaunaClassifieds). FaunaAds determines the ads that need to be displayed in rotation, then sends those images back to the host where it can be displayed on the screen for the viewer. So of course this will affect bandwidth, not only because of the size of the banner ads (file size), but also for the lag inherent in processing being done from FaunaAds.

This can be of concern as well, because just as the number of text links we now have can delay a viewer from seeing what they came to that classified forum to see, so can an excessive delay for the rotating banner ads to be displayed have the same overall effect.

I don't really think there is any solution that won't require a compromise of some sort and won't piss off someone. Not that this will be any different from anything else done here, but dang, isn't there SOMETHING that I can do here that would be perfect from all perspectives?

 

[jasballs]

Not quite. The sponsor links are actually treated as subforums so they do not take the place of any actual threads (ads) in the classified forum itself.

The problem is that the more sponsor links there are, the further down the page they will push the actual ads that people are coming to that forum to see. My concern is that at some point the excessive amount of scrolling down the page to get to the meat on the plate may get people to walk away from the dinner table.

Rich, Here is another idea. Keep the sponsers ads how they are and put a time line to ads on there. (ie 1-2 day ads) Makes the seller repost there ads But, will keep the sponsers ads up. 1 and done! if the op of the ad doesnt reply or bump the ad it expires. you have more space and time for other things. Hope you get what I'm saying. I have no idea if it will cost you more though? Just trying to help.