Info on record / Debbie Prince

[myminskins]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Toni Stephens <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: letter
To: Debbie Prince <[email protected]>


I never said I was happy . I told you the 1st day the snake had a problem .I sent you an email as soon as I got home from fed ex before I left for my DR appt out of town and told you they arrived alive and seemingly ok except the caramel was too limp . I said that I would update later when I got home which I did with email and phone calls..telling you she was flipping over and her eyes didnt look right . While I may have said the animal was beautiful I never told you it was without problems... ever ..i was crying when I called you that evening and you know it ..The reason the animal has been out of your possession is because you refused to take it back and kept telling me it would snap out of the condition it was in .. As for the husbandry the snake has been kept at the vet as we could not bring it into our home with our other snakes per advice of the vet .
For you to say you refuse to take the snake back because we have provided poor husbandry is ridiculous . You have refused from the beginning to take the animal back and have shown no interest whatsoever in what was wrong with the animal . It seems poor husbandry on your part to buy and resale animals without proper QT and then shipping a sick animal or shipping in a box the way you sent her which was a USED box.too small and improporly packed .Then not to even attempt to make things right from day one and not caring that your collection may have IBD is beyond poor husbandry .
Because of your obvious poor husbandry and poor customer service and uncaring attitude and lack of concern not only for customer satifaction but also indifference as to the possible health concerns this should raise for your own collection and custumers we cannot accept another animal from you .You can sell the animal and send a refund .


Toni




On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Debbie Prince <[email protected]> wrote:

Toni,

Per the terms of my website, I guarantee live delivery. Per your email dated 2/19/09, you received live animals and stated that you were happy with them. I am willing to go beyond those terms and replace the animal with one of equal value in the interest of customer satisfaction. Because the animal has been out of my care for six weeks and I cannot be sure of the husbandry provided, I cannot accept the animal back, nor can I offer a refund.

Debbie

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Toni Stephens <[email protected]> wrote:


From: Toni Stephens <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: letter
To: "Debbie Prince" <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 8:26 AM


Due to the circumstances of this last transaction and condition of the animal we do not want another animal but would like a refund.This animal is not only beautiful but has a great deal of outcrossing behind it from a breeder I trust . Even he does not have one like her .
We really cannot risk endangering our collection again as per vet advice .This has also been very hard on my daughter and me emotionally and still is as we are burdened with the sick snake . Our vet costs are already around $200 . To find out if the snake has IBD the cost will jump up to $300 additionally .


Thanks,
Toni .

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Debbie Prince <[email protected]> wrote:

Toni,

I received your letter, thanks for sending it. As per my previous email, I am willing to replace the caramel with a snake of equal value as soon as I have one to offer.

Thanks,
Debbie

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Toni Stephens <[email protected]> wrote:


From: Toni Stephens <[email protected]>
Subject: Fwd: letter
To: "Debbie Prince" <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 11:06 AM

Debbie,
Want to make sure you got this letter from the vet and we look fw to hearing from you soon .
Thanks,
Toni

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 7:01 AM
Subject: letter
To: [email protected]

 

[myminskins]

Reply With Quote

 

[myminskins]

the vet has had her since the 27th . intead of putting her down he emailed Dr Jacobson and they tried blood smears first ...I had called Debbie that night from the vet crying and she refused to help . I was told to throw it in the freezer ...

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Toni Stephens <[email protected]> wrote:

Debbbie,
We left her with the vet . If she is still alive on mon he will put her down and send body for necropsy . He like the other vet I spoke to said her prognosis was poor . He said her pupils are pinpointed and she has encephalitis or inflamation of the brain . He said her neuro syptoms were so pronounced that he didnt think we should bring her home as the indication for ibd was too high risk for our collection .
advice is to qt your animals until we rule out ibd in this animal. I told him what you said on the phone about not having ibd but he said you cannot be sure . qt is 6 months.
I also spoke to 2 other breeders who said you cannot be sure your animals are ibd free.
the vet stayed late in order to give my daughter and time to deal with this and make an informed decision .
His feelings were the risk was way too much to bring her home no matter and that you need to learn more about ibd .
Will send vet statement when we get it in writing. tonight we left after talking with 2 other breeders and the vet at great length . All told me you need to stand behind this snake and that I should send them all back to you and my daughter and I should not have to be the ones to deal with all this . everyone I have spoken to has said they would have stood behind the snake immediately upon learning there was a problem the 1st day and not put us through all this ...no matter what the cause...she was not right when she arrived.
I hope to God our collection has not been exposed to possible horrible deaths and loss .
This condition could also be caused by the way they were packed .
This has been very hard on my daughter and me both .
Toni




Debbie Prince
to me

show details Feb 28


Reply


Toni,

Testing can be done on live snakes - a snake does not have to be put down and necropsied in order to ascertain its status. http://www.anapsid.org/ibd.html

If you choose to put down your snake, that is your choice. I will NOT accept ANY snakes back from you now, but if I receive the vet report (and the necropsy report) I will replace the carmel albino (when I have something of equal or greater value to offer) after I've read the vet report and necropsy and determined that that is the right course of action. I won't have anything of equal or greater value for at least six months, so the QT that you seek will be met. What other breeders would or would not do has no bearing on what I will or will not do.

Debbie

 

[myminskins]

[email protected]
to me

show details Feb 19


Reply



__________________________________________________ ______________________________

This tracking update has been requested by:

Company Name: The Gecko Prince
Name: Debbie Prince
E-mail: [email protected]

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Our records indicate that the following shipment has been delivered:

Ship (P/U) date: Feb 18, 2009
Delivery date: Feb 19, 2009 10:27 AM
Sign for by: T.STEPHENS
Delivered to: FedEx Location
Service type: FedEx Priority Overnight
Packaging type: Your Packaging
Number of pieces: 1
Weight: 3.00 lb.
Special handling/Services: Deliver Weekday

Tracking number: 796352195986


Shipper Information
Debbie Prince
The Gecko Prince
11410 Torrey Pines Dr.
Auburn
CA
US
95602

Recipient Information
Toni Stephens
Pine Bluff Fed Ex Station
224 S MULBERRY ST
PINE BLUFF
AR
US
71601

Please do not respond to this message. This email was sent from an unattended
mailbox. This report was generated at approximately 7:10 PM CST
on 02/19/2009.

Learn more about new ways to track with FedEx.

All weights are estimated.

To track the latest status of your shipment, click on the tracking number above,
or visit us at fedex.com.

This tracking update has been sent to you by FedEx on the behalf of the
Requestor noted above. FedEx does not validate the authenticity of the
requestor and does not validate, guarantee or warrant the authenticity of the
request, the requestor's message, or the accuracy of this tracking update. For
tracking results and fedex.com's terms of use, go to fedex.com.

Thank you for your business.
Reply With Quote

 

[myminskins]

we recieved 3 6mo pld bps in the smaller box in these pix from debbie prince . there was a padded foil panel insulation added by debbie to the styrofoam insulation and a heat pack taped to the top foil panel . inside the box was a large amt of syrofoam peanuts as well leaving inadequate room for the animals . the top foil panel and heat pack were mashed down ontop of the animals by the styrofoam panel and box sealed with tape . the larger box and dr pepper can were added for comparison . writing on bottom of box from debbie indicates the box was used prior for shipping or recieving 2 gheckos .

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt337/twinkletowntoni/carbox3.jpg

 

[myminskins]

Here is a copy of the 1st email I sent debbie noting that the caramel was limp . I was in a hurry due to a drs appt 2 hrs away and simply got the snakes out of their box and held each one for a sec and placed them back in their bags and then into their tubs already set up as soon as I got home . I had them shipped to the substation about 45 min away to ensure I wouldnt miss them . I thought it was important to note in a quick email to her that I noticed the caramel did not feel right but that they arrived alive . I was running late and was gone for a few hrs before I could observe her more closely for longer period ....at which time I promply emailed her again and when no reply I called her very upset . I told her I was afraid the animal was going to die and asked her what to do as I have only dealt with pups or kittens . She said it was probably just stessed I told her what we did for pups and kittens if they were fading or weak and asked if she knew of anything I could do for the snake . She said no it will probably be ok ....which it wasnt . Below is a copy of the quck email I sent to let her know they arrived alive but that the caramel didnt feel right to me and would update asap . I assumed the snake was simply stressed and had to leave . The only observations were from removing the animal from the bag at fed ex..noting it was limp and it didnt hold its head up...then drove home and took it out of its bag again and placed it in its tub..again only for a few seconds because I was late . This is the only animal we have ever recieved with a problem from anyone we have done buisness with and I wasnt expecting a problem .
note the time on fed ex reciept and then on email I sent debbie before leaving ...approx 1hr and that was driving time and putting them into their tubs before I left for the dr appt .




from Toni Stephens <[email protected]>
to Debbie Prince <[email protected]>
date Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:34 AM
subject babies
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details Feb 19


Reply


safe on heat and fresh water
they look great and lively
car is a little loose but ok
i have them set up and have to leave
running late will write tonight
thanks veryy very much
they are big

 

[myminskins]

one more thing . we didnt take the snake to the vet thursday the 19th or fri the 20th because the advice I was given was that the snake was probably 'just stressed from shipping' and would snap out of it . By Monday I was calling all the local vets within an hrs drive trying to find one that would see a reptile ...with no luck . After finally going online I found Dr Southerland but couldnt get in til the 27th . it was nearly a 3hr drive one way.

 

[spawn]

Where or where to start with this one...

Next time, keep all the emails in order and in one post with headers. I had a helluva' time differentiating emails from you/Debbie/your actual post.


----


Now, are you seeking redemption? To just spread the word? What is the status of the snake? Do you have pictures?

 

[lanceheads]

one more thing . we didnt take the snake to the vet thursday the 19th or fri the 20th because the advice I was given was that the snake was probably 'just stressed from shipping' and would snap out of it . By Monday I was calling all the local vets within an hrs drive trying to find one that would see a reptile ...with no luck . After finally going online I found Dr Southerland but couldnt get in til the 27th . it was nearly a 3hr drive one way.

3 hr drive?
From Pine Bluff to Sherwood takes LESS than an hour!
Maybe you don't live in Pine Bluff, but just from about anywhere in Arkansas you can drive to Central Ar (Sherwood) in less than 3 hrs.


Randal Berry

 

[Ed Clark]

Toni, This is hard to grasp...not the facts. just the way you laid it out.

Tell us a lil story about how it played out.

You recieved snake, bad packageing, snake not healthy etc etc.

I'm always a little confused, you took me over the top here!

 

[myminskins]

I dont live in Pine Bluff . And yes it took almost 3 hrs to get there for us . None of the above info is in anyway a lie . This is posted for the sake of people like us who come to the BOI before they buy .

 

[myminskins]

[/B]

3 hr drive?
From Pine Bluff to Sherwood takes LESS than an hour!
Maybe you don't live in Pine Bluff, but just from about anywhere in Arkansas you can drive to Central Ar (Sherwood) in less than 3 hrs.


Randal Berry

Perhaps you can drive through rush hr traffic in the pouring thrunderstorm from Pine Buff to Sherwood but I cannot .It takes me over an hr to get from Pine Bluff to Little Rock .
The snake was recieved in the Pine Bluff fed ex station and I then drove back home with it . No way did I say we live in Pine Bluff and it took 3 hrs to drive the snake to Sherwood from PB.
We are 2 hrs from LR.To get from and through rush hr LR NLR and out to Keil did indeed take that long for us .
Did you have a question about anything else ?

 

[ToshaMc]

Story is pretty easy to follow

1. Three snakes shipped
2. Buyer contacted seller the day of arrival to let them know they arrived safely
3. Later that day buyer realizes one of them has problems and contacts seller by email and phone.
4. Seller says "it's just shipping stress it will go away"
5. After a few days of believing seller and the "shipping stress" does not go away buyer contacts a few breeders who tell her that is not "shipping stress" and snake needs to see a vet asap.
6. Buyer takes questionable snake to vet at earliest appointment.
7. Vet confirms there is something seriously wrong with the snake.

Seller will not stand behind the health of the animal - stating that it arrived alive and that is all she guaranteed.

Seller lied about it being "shipping stress that would go away"

Seller will not assume responsibility and either knowingly shipping out a sick snake or poor shipping procedures that have harmed the snake.

Seller did not care that she could have IBD in her collection or that she could be shipping it out in all the snakes she flipped.

Did I miss anything?

 

[147boas]

Story is pretty easy to follow

1. Three snakes shipped
2. Buyer contacted seller the day of arrival to let them know they arrived safely
3. Later that day buyer realizes one of them has problems and contacts seller by email and phone.
4. Seller says "it's just shipping stress it will go away"
5. After a few days of believing seller and the "shipping stress" does not go away buyer contacts a few breeders who tell her that is not "shipping stress" and snake needs to see a vet asap.
6. Buyer takes questionable snake to vet at earliest appointment.
7. Vet confirms there is something seriously wrong with the snake.

Seller will not stand behind the health of the animal - stating that it arrived alive and that is all she guaranteed.

Seller lied about it being "shipping stress that would go away"

Seller will not assume responsibility and either knowingly shipping out a sick snake or poor shipping procedures that have harmed the snake.

Seller did not care that she could have IBD in her collection or that she could be shipping it out in all the snakes she flipped.

Did I miss anything?

no i think you have it all i think the seller needs to step up and take some responsibility and refund the money

 

[myminskins]

Toni, This is hard to grasp...not the facts. just the way you laid it out.

Tell us a lil story about how it played out.

You recieved snake, bad packageing, snake not healthy etc etc.

I'm always a little confused, you took me over the top here!

Sounds like you got the basics represented by my posts . The
snake arrived either damaged or sick .The seller was notified by email and phone immediately .She kept saying it would get better...it didnt . I found a reptile vet on the internet after calling the ones in my area and south of home ....none of which would see a snake .
Took her into the vet. His letter is printed in my 1st post explains the rest . The snake continues to tie itself in knots and show neuro damage .
Look at the pix of the box and read my post . IBD? damage from inappropiate packaging ? I posted pix of the box and packing . All info was made available to seller from the beginning .
The seller has not made things right with us .
That pretty much covers it .

 

[ForkedTung]

Just for the record, Are we talking about a Caramel Albino Ball Python here?
What were the other snakes?
Are they in quarantine as well?

 

[ToshaMc]

no i think you have it all i think the seller needs to step up and take some responsibility and refund the money

Refund for the cost of snake and vet bill compensation.

 

[147boas]

Refund for the cost of snake and vet bill compensation.

yes i agree

 

[myminskins]

Just for the record, Are we talking about a Caramel Albino Ball Python here?
What were the other snakes?
Are they in quarantine as well?

Yes the snake with the problem is the caramel albino .

The other 2 are a pr of caramel glow hets susposedly from BHB .

They are in qt and will remain so .

She flipped them .

 

[myminskins]

Story is pretty easy to follow

1. Three snakes shipped
2. Buyer contacted seller the day of arrival to let them know they arrived safely
3. Later that day buyer realizes one of them has problems and contacts seller by email and phone.
4. Seller says "it's just shipping stress it will go away"
5. After a few days of believing seller and the "shipping stress" does not go away buyer contacts a few breeders who tell her that is not "shipping stress" and snake needs to see a vet asap.
6. Buyer takes questionable snake to vet at earliest appointment.
7. Vet confirms there is something seriously wrong with the snake.

Seller will not stand behind the health of the animal - stating that it arrived alive and that is all she guaranteed.

Seller lied about it being "shipping stress that would go away"

Seller will not assume responsibility and either knowingly shipping out a sick snake or poor shipping procedures that have harmed the snake.

Seller did not care that she could have IBD in her collection or that she could be shipping it out in all the snakes she flipped.

Did I miss anything?

Thank you for organizing this accurately Tosha .