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Jungle/diamond reaction to Baytril? :(

Will0W783

Will0W783

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Hi everyone

I have a jungle/diamond cross yearling female who was having trouble getting the last few pieces of shed off her neck when my fiance bought her. We soaked her and helped her get the shed off and she seemed fine. She went into shed again about three weeks later and wouldn't eat for three weeks. She was having trouble shedding again and I noticed she wheezed and had mucus discharge from her nostrils. I upped humidity and heat as my friend suggested I do, but there was no improvement in 4 days so I took her to my herp vet. She had not eaten in three weeks, but was in shed so I figured that was the reason, combined with respiratory infection. He diagnosed her with respiratory infection/pneumonia and put her on Baytril injected every other day. He gave her the first shot there in the office Thursday, but the next day (Friday)she was twitching and had her body all corkscrewed up and was holding her head sideways and lolling about. I got concerned and called the vet back who told me to relax and give her the second dose and watch her. The next day (Saturday) I gave her the second dose as directed, in the evening. The next morning, yesterday, she was dead. I don't think this was IBD because of its fast onset and quick fatality. I feel that it was a reaction to Baytril, as does my friend, another breeder who I trust. I just wanted to put this out there as a warning for anyone else to be careful with Baytril!! If anyone has had similar experiences or has any idea what could have happened other than drug reaction, let me know. I'm very upset about the loss of my little Intrigue, as she was a total sweetheart and very beautiful. Here is a picture of what she was doing when I came home Friday evening:
 
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Thanks John...it was baffling and horrible to watch. I feel like I killed her by giving her the meds that were supposed to heal her. Poor little baby.
 
How much Baytril did you give her?
How high had you raised the temps?
Definitely a shame (but, if she were mine, I'd want to know WHY)
 
I do want to know, but my vet has not called me back to discuss. Also, she was technically my fiance's snake and he doesn't want to bother with an autopsy. She was 79grams and on 5 units Baytril in an insulin syringe (not sure what an insulin unit vs. a mL is). It is possible the vet made a mistake and dosed out too much drug and it messed up her system, in fact I think this is the most likely cause. If the vet calls back and suggests a necropsy I will get one done.
 
IIRC, my white lip that was about a KG was on 3 units of Baytril per day for 2 weeks.

Read the instructions on the prescription you got from the vet and compare it to http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html

I just got off the phone with my vet and after a LOT of mathematical mumbo jumbo voodoo, she said it's greatly dependant on the strength of the baytril.

So, what does the prescription say about frequency and dosage and what does it say about potency?

GL
 
(hoping it was diluted, because that seems like a lot for a 79g snake...at least if the "standard"/dog strength was used)
 
Having previously lost everything to IBDV I would absolutely have a necropsy done. Anything neurological just freaks me out. I'm sorry to hear of your loss. Do you have other snakes in your collection?
 
Yes, I have 25 other snakes. No one has shown any signs, and the vet ruled out IBDV. She did have pretty bad pneumonia, but was quarantined as soon as she started wheezing. I'm keeping a close eye on everyone else and hoping for the best. She was my fiance's snake and he doesn't want to pay for a necropsy, and the vet didn't think it was necessary. I think it was most likely the stress of a high dose of Baytril combined with bad pneumonia and it was too much for her. She was only 5 ounces.
 
So, what was the Baytril potency? What does the prescription say?

5 ounces is 140 grams. 79 grams is 2.8 ounces.
 
The prescription didn't say anything. I just got the pre-filled insulin syringes. They were filled up to 5 units, which I think is like .2 mL, but not sure. I asked the vet and he said 5mg/kg was the dosage he used. But as I don't know how to convert from insulin syringe "units" to SI units, I can't tell exactly. But the snake weighed 5 ounces, I just double-checked when I talked to him last night- she wasn't 79 g, but 49g. She was about 3-feet long but slender, as carpets are.
 
Also, has anyone had experience with pneumonia in a snake giving it neurological problems towards the end? The vet told me that it often does, but I couldn't find anything online about neurological problems being associated with pneumonia.
 
Your weights are weird, 5oz does not relate to 79 or 49g. 5 units of standard strength baytril is a LOT for even a 5 oz snake (~140).

I just mention because the toxicology reports on Baytril in the link I provided showed some dizzyness and minor neuro symptoms in adults.

On the other side, I had a snake with mouth rot (decades and decades ago) and it went insane before it died (dumb ass kid killed a snake). Lots of neuro symptoms.
 
Maybe I misheard the vet when he told me the weights. The scale he used was in another room. I remember him saying 5oz, so probably she was 149g and I misheard it as 49g.
 
When my first boa died my vet told me that she didn't think it was IBDV. I insisted on the necropsy and to specifically test for the disease. When the results came back positive that same vet euthanized my 40 boas.

I sincerely hope that the death of your python was a result of the baytril. You know your situation best. I'm very sensitive to situations regarding any snake with neurological issues, especially when paired with other maladies. It just seems to be the responsible thing to test for. Again, I'm sorry for your loss. Best of luck to you!
 
Thank you Art Klass, I will be crossing my fingers and keeping a close eye on my other snakes for the next few weeks, but so far so good. I am so sorry to hear of your problems with IBDV- that must have been absolutely devastating- emotionally,financially, and every other way. I really appreciate the advice and caring responses of everyone.
 
I'm the friend Kim was speaking of, and we have been in contact through this whole thing. Considering the time frame, I would have a hard time believing it was anything but the Baytril. The snake was sick, but acting like any normal sick snake would. About 12 hours after the first dose, this animal was acting very strangely. As any responsible keeper would, Kim called the emergency line for some advice and was told to give a second dose. After another 12 hours, the snake was dead.

Kim, as you know, you have my sympathy. I would probably get on the phone with your vet and ask him about the potency of the Baytril, the dosage by weight, and how much was prescribed. Explain to him that you'd like everything spelled out for you [hee, hee, I'm just a dumb girl (or pierced/tattooed freak in my case)...could you explain that?], as you are new to this. Once you have all the numbers, I'm sure one of use can find out if that was the correct dosage.

If you find you can't get any descent answers, continue to keep an eye on your collection, but try not to make yourself sick over it. Good luck, and I hope to see you at Hamburg.
 
Thanks Mike! As always, I greatly appreciate your advice and care in the matter. I did call the vet and he said he had "double-checked" the dosage, but didn't have the paperwork on hand to give me the actual potency. (Convenient, I know...hmmmm). I doubt I will get any further information out of him, but next time, (if there is one) I will make sure to get the actual potency and dosage before I leave the vet's office.
 
Will0W783 said:
Thanks Mike! As always, I greatly appreciate your advice and care in the matter. I did call the vet and he said he had "double-checked" the dosage, but didn't have the paperwork on hand to give me the actual potency. (Convenient, I know...hmmmm). I doubt I will get any further information out of him, but next time, (if there is one) I will make sure to get the actual potency and dosage before I leave the vet's office.
Click to expand...

Yes, quite. It's been about a year and a half since I've seen my vet and I can call them today and they can recite to me out of the folder what was prescribed and when and for how long.

Your vet should be able to do that, too. If the wrong strength was loaded into the syringes then that's another matter. I'm shocked at the "preloaded syringes" thing. Baytril is sensitive to light and breaks down moderately quickly.

I'd do a little googling on Baytril for toxicology reports. Particularly looking for neuro symptoms at overdose levels.

IMO, with all the confusion over the weight of the snake, the strength of the Baytril, the lack of paperwork on a drug they prescribed. I'd be looking for a new vet regardless of the outcome with this one.
 
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