Info Amy Zerkle's temper, beware!

[Quibble]

I bought 4 garter snakes for my birthday from Amy Zerkle. 1.1 puget sound, 1.0 oregon red spotted, and 1.0 orange striped plains. When they arrived, the labels of the pugets genders seemed to be backwards. To confirm my suspicions I sought advice on another forum. Everyone agreed the 'female' was male, some thought the 'male' was female and others thought I had two males. I also noticed one had a lump on its spine. I became worried and told Amy what was discussed on the forum. She is greatly offended by my confusion, and wants me to send all four snakes back to her. I guess I can advise to anyone that wishes to buy from her, that if you get an animal in less than perfect health, don't ask her to help you. You're on your own, as am I.
I have read nothing but good reports about Amy, so I have trusted her through the transaction. I never intended for this problem to escalate as it has, I tried apologising for anything that may have seemed rude. Apologies are 'meaningless' to her.

View attachment 84475


From: [email protected]
To: Amy
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 7:50 pm
Subject: ???

Hey Amy,
I think you got the pickeringii genders backwards, but thats okay I got it figured out!!
The female has a strange lump on her back, it doesnt seem to restrict any movement, but im worried about it.
Have any suggestions?

-Beth
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To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ???
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 14:48:55 -0400
From: [email protected]

HI Beth It maybe a bruise fro jostling around during shipping-i didnt notice any abnormality when packing them-keep me updated .
sorry i reversed the sex sign postman was early for pickup i was rushing to box them up
Amy
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From: [email protected]
To: Amy
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 3:31 pm
Subject: RE: ???

Hi Amy.
Well 'Lumpy' (as shes been called) hasent changed, the lump is still there. Shes the only one that hasnt eaten yet, she has refused guppies, worms, nightcrawlers, and pinks. I have been talking with people on Thamnophis, and they seem to think its either a spinal kink or a parasite, seeing as how the packaging was all fine. I'm sure its a simple mistake, and I hope you'll work with me to make things right. I can't in all good conscience breed an unhealthy female.
There has also been some contreversy on the forum, some insist I have two male pickeringii instead of male/female.
What do you think we can do? Do you have a different healthy female thats as pretty blue as Lumpy?

-Beth
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To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ???
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:26:31 -0400
From: [email protected]

The best thing at this time is to send them all back and I'll refund your money. At this time since the whole shippment has apparently gone awry, the only way to rectify this is this way.
Amy
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From: [email protected]
To: Amy
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 6:45 pm
Subject: RE: ???

Well, I am happy with the other three. Isnt there a way you can replace the sick one with a healthy female? I can pay to ship her if you have another one for me. Or is there a way you can help me pay for a vet? I can send you a copy of any bills or proof of whatever you need, and maybe we can split the cost.

I really wouldnt want to return my entire birthday present, I've already given everybody names!

-Beth
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To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ???
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:20:57 -0400
From: [email protected]

Beth
I have been in this business since 1983 i dont appreciate questioning the species or if they paracitized.
After those statements I would prefer to end this transaction by returning my animals to me
I would not sell anything misidentified-period
They were born here and raised by me.
I would prefer to take the entire group back -I didnt sell anything I felt was subpar .
I have been in this for 30 yrs& my reputation is impeccable-because i dont and wont sell anything i wouldnt be happy to recieve.
I have no other bigger for sale females -I do not make a habit of selling my breeders.
I made an exception selling those to you
The only pugets that I have for sale are 09's that are 2 weeks old .
I would prefer doing business in person that is the downfall of selling online
As far as vets very few vets are qualified to treat snakes - in my expereince they misdiagnose and overdose meds killing the animals.
If there is a problem i will deal with it with my own people.
I will be leaving for afish show and will not be back till Sunday night -
I will send a 50% refund and the balance when the snakes arrive
Amy
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From: [email protected]
To: Amy
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 8:47 pm
Subject: RE: ???

Amy,
Im really sorry, my intentions were not to blame you. I was just telling you what other forum members have been suggesting to me. The flaw in this snake is easy to miss, in fact my brother was the one to point it out to me. I'm just worried. If by chance it IS a parasite, it should be pointed out in case it has spread to others. In any other case it might be wise for me to seek veteranary care if it wont eat. In my opinion, she is female, and she has a spinal kink. However I have gotten otherwise suggestions which I thought I should tell you about. It just doesnt seem to add up if it were a shipping injury, if anything the radix would have gotten an injury because his cup was a bit smushed. I made a lot of mental and physical preparation for this purchase, I'd hate to throw it all away. I attached a pic of the kinked area.

-Beth
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To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ???
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:26:25 -0400
From: [email protected]

Beth
I do not intend to volley letters - she has a kink - i didnt notice it when packing -these were animals i have been raising for my self.I choose the highest color ones to send. I usually sell ones that size for 100-125 ea but was trying to do you a favor ..
I was shocked and disamyed you have question the sex, origin , species and threated to report to the BOI on the forum- before sending me any kind of picture .
I see nothing but trouble with this entire thing-I am not reshipping anythng-i want my snakes back & i will refund your money.
Amy
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From: [email protected]
To: Amy
Sent: Sat, Jul 11, 2009 7:35 am
Subject: RE: ???

Amy
Again I'm sorry. Keep in mind that this is an online transaction between two strangers, and that be both have an honest right to assume the worst intentions of each other in attempts to protect ourselves.
I never questioned the origin or the species. I never questioned the genders until the comments from others, and then I became worried.
I apologise for not sending a picture sooner, it just somehow didnt cross my mind.
Also, one can talk. I may have said stuff about the BOI, but I would never do such a thing until the issues were dealt with and over, which is what any responsible person would do.
I am happy with this transaction. The kink in Lumpy scared me, I guess you could say I went into panic mode. If it werent for this fight, I would still buy from you again in the future. My only intenions were to attempt to solve this peacefully.
I'm sorry for the trouble. It's my problem now, and I will deal with it accordingly.

And in all seriousness, I sincerely appreciated what you've done for me.

-Beth
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To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ???
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:22:09 -0400
From: [email protected]

Beth I want my animals back period.
I will refund your money
After the facy apologies are meaningless-I ahve no intention of selling you anything
Please send them out monday When you send tracking info i will refund 1/2 once they arrive I will sed the balance
Amy
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This is rediculous Amy.
I was only asking for help, not demanding it, and not accusing you. You could have taken a different approach to this whole situation and spared your reputation. Thank you for teaching me not to buy from people I dont know, I will forward my lesson to others. If you really have a problem with selling to people online, then take your adds down.
Have a great day.
-Beth

 

[Uroboros]

With that kink, I'd totally take her up on it. Have her send you a return label and a refund.

GL

 

[Lucille]

Beth if you had a problem with the snakes, perhaps the best thing you could have done was to contact the seller first.

But since you have made an issue of the one with a lump, can you please post a picture?

 

[Lucille]

Never mind, just saw it and it does look like a kink.

 

[Quibble]

I wanted to be able to tell her whether it was the male or the female that had the kink, so I asked for sexing help first.

 

[Zack319]

Why did you leave out the emails where you threatened to post in the BOI about this.

The emails you have provided, you seem to be extremely friendly with Amy, but she keeps mentioning you threatening her.
And yet you've left out those emails.

Why is this?

 

[Quibble]

I didnt leav out any e-mails, ask Amy yourself.
She may be referreing to what I said in the other forum at Thamnphis.com, that if things don't work out I have access to the BOI.

This quote
"Maybe I can get the breeder to trade it with me for a healthy female(that I originally paid for). If not, I do have access to the BOI on fauna classifieds..... "

 

[Quibble]

misspelling correction: thamnophis.com

 

[Lucille]

As things go, she is not showing a temper, more like concern for her reputation and maybe even the snakes.

The one does look like a kink, but she is offering a refund, it's not as if you are stuck with it.

 

[Zack319]

But the Beth would like to keep the other snakes she purchased, she has grown attached to them, and doesn't want to send them all back.

Maybe a partial refund would do?

 

[DAND]

I wanted to be able to tell her whether it was the male or the female that had the kink, so I asked for sexing help first.

From who? Also, could you tell us or better yet post a picture of where the lump is in comparison to the vent.

 

[Quibble]

But the Beth would like to keep the other snakes she purchased, she has grown attached to them, and doesn't want to send them all back.

Maybe a partial refund would do?

Yes the Beth would love to keep the others. And after all of this the Beth wants to keep the kinky one too!

I dont want to slander Amy's rep completely, but this I believe this info is important for future customers to know.

If she would have been more kind with her words, I would plan to buy from her again someday.

 

[Lucille]

But the Beth would like to keep the other snakes she purchased, she has grown attached to them, and doesn't want to send them all back.

Maybe a partial refund would do?

That is a good thought. The pic, was that the buyer's pic or the seller's pic? Before recommending a resolution it would be important to know whether the kink was there when it was shipped out to the buyer.

 

[Zack319]

Yes the Beth would love to keep the others

I just noticed that little mistake I initially planned on typing out "The buyer" and then I remembered you're name was Beth, but I never deleted the "the" part.... *sigh... takes a deep breath*

It seems Amy recognized that she made a mistake, and did not see the kink, it also looks like the emails started the very same day the snakes were shipped, if that information is right, it would mean the kink either happened at Amy's place, or during shipping.

 

[Quibble]

From who? Also, could you tell us or better yet post a picture of where the lump is in comparison to the vent.

From other garter snake keepers on thamnophis. and I just snapped this photo, you can see where the kink is in the shadow easily.
View attachment 84482

 

[Quibble]

Its hard to get good photos with minimal sunlight and energy saving light bulbs.... I can get more tomorow if anyone requests it. She had this kink when she arrived. It could be a shipping injury but I highly doubt it, the smushed container wasnt the one she was in.

But i've decided to keep Lumpy, and change her name soon.

 

[Quibble]

I just noticed that little mistake I initially planned on typing out "The buyer" and then I remembered you're name was Beth, but I never deleted the "the" part.... *sigh... takes a deep breath*

Its okay, it made me chuckle cause I've reffered to myself as 'the beth' before

It seems Amy recognized that she made a mistake, and did not see the kink, it also looks like the emails started the very same day the snakes were shipped, if that information is right, it would mean the kink either happened at Amy's place, or during shipping.

Yes it either happened in Amy's care or durring shipping. I never wanted to blame her, just ask about other options. Maybe she continues to think I was angry at her to begin with.

 

[Lucille]

Yes it either happened in Amy's care or durring shipping. I never wanted to blame her, just ask about other options. Maybe she continues to think I was angry at her to begin with.

It is important to have a seller pic, perhaps Amy thinks it happened in your care and wants her snakes back.

I did a search on Zerkle right now and I see there are many good reviews.

 

[Lucille]

There's more to this than meets the eye, after looking around a bit I see that Beth and Amy are listed as 'friends' on this board. As y'all know, friendship has to be both proferred and accepted, so each of them had to accept the friendship of the other.

 

[Uroboros]

From the emails and the rest of the discussion, you all are friends. Is there a different snake to replace the kinked one? Is a refund for the single snake available?

If you guys are friends, are you guys willing to split the shipping costs? That may not be a standard practice, but sometimes in friendships, things aren't standard.

I'd just like to see a friendly solution and I think that there's quite a few.

You guys are listed as friends, so you can't be such complete strangers.

GL to both of you.