Bad Guy Ian of Outback Reptiles

[Serafim]

What was the date the snake was purchased? The vet reports are from 5-11 or did I miss something? This is 2 months old

 

[Ralphieeeee]

The snake was purchased mid April. I got the snake to a vet asap. Most of the vets around me did not look at snakes and other reptiles.

 

[Serafim]

I was under the impression that the snake went to the vet within a week of purchase. A month had elapsed already with no treatment being administered. The second receipt shows a worming treatment 16 days after the initial exam plenty of time for a problem to occur.

 

[JoeEllisReptiles]

Bottom line....... Treat people with respect and with a good attitude and you can usually come out on top. If anything learn from this situation and try not to take the same approach.

 

[jglass38]

Bottom line....... Treat people with respect and with a good attitude and you can usually come out on top. If anything learn from this situation and try not to take the same approach.

We're lucky we have you here to teach us about treating people with respect.

 

[DeeRa]

We're lucky we have you here to teach us about treating people with respect.

i agree 100% with you. He knows how to show people some respect!

 

[Abish]

The snake was purchased mid April. I got the snake to a vet asap. Most of the vets around me did not look at snakes and other reptiles.

I may be mistaken, but it sure seemed to me that you were claiming the snake was seen by a vet about a week later, not about a month later.

When you say your only previous experience in the BP world you are new to involved one of them dying 'for no apparent reason' then it gets even less clear-cut for me that this snake had an infestation before it got to you.

Does Ian agree that he was called with concerns a week after the show? You say your mom called and talked to a woman who apparently doesn't exist. Then you say you talked to Ian and told him you were taking the snake to a vet, and he said to bring it by the next show, but then in post 50 you say you apparently didn't talk to Ian...

So, just out of curiosity, were you ever able to alert Ian to the issue before showing up at his table again, turning down his offer (which wasn't just a $40 discount he'd have given anyone, because you say yourself he at least offered to give you further discounts on other purchases until it added up to your vet bill), and trying to scare off his customers?

If the snake was infested with hookworms a week after the show, I may not have been happy being told to keep buying stuff and eventually it'll equal my vet bill. If it was sick and required treatment more than a month later, I think I'd find that offer pretty amenable.

 

[Serafim]

I may be mistaken, but it sure seemed to me that you were claiming the snake was seen by a vet about a week later, not about a month later.

When you say your only previous experience in the BP world you are new to involved one of them dying 'for no apparent reason' then it gets even less clear-cut for me that this snake had an infestation before it got to you.

Does Ian agree that he was called with concerns a week after the show? You say your mom called and talked to a woman who apparently doesn't exist. Then you say you talked to Ian and told him you were taking the snake to a vet, and he said to bring it by the next show, but then in post 50 you say you apparently didn't talk to Ian...

So, just out of curiosity, were you ever able to alert Ian to the issue before showing up at his table again, turning down his offer (which wasn't just a $40 discount he'd have given anyone, because you say yourself he at least offered to give you further discounts on other purchases until it added up to your vet bill), and trying to scare off his customers?

If the snake was infested with hookworms a week after the show, I may not have been happy being told to keep buying stuff and eventually it'll equal my vet bill. If it was sick and required treatment more than a month later, I think I'd find that offer pretty amenable.

What I found odd was that on the date of the initial exam there was no treatment for internal parasites. They did a fecal then. Does it take that long to get results or is it possible that the Hookworms appeared at a later date. Like 16 days after the initial exam. Things are just not adding up. When will we get the whole vet report including results of the fecals.

 

[Abish]

There is one other facet that has not really been addressed. Most sales at shows have limited guarantees due to the fact that the buyer has the chance to examine the animals closely before making the purchase. In this instance, even though the buyer states that the animal dropped an unpleasant stool almost immediately after arriving home and refused to eat, he still did not contact the seller for a week.

Very few breeders will guaranty an animal much past a week even in an internet sale. Couple that with the buyers obvious attitude and i am not thinking all that badly of ian in this instance. If, in fact, the girlfriend was offerred a 50% discount on another animal I think the sellers burden on this transaction has been met

After re-reading the first post again, Ian did eventually offer to swap the snake, and Ralph declined. I think the seller's burden has been exceeded at this point.

Also, Ralph, I noticed you do say you sent him an email. Would you post it with headers, please? It would really help establish your case while you wait for the vet reports.

 

[Ralphieeeee]

No, I said I talked to whom was supposedly Ian the second time my mother called Outback Reptiles. This occurred about a week after the show. I would have called earlier, I just wanted to see if the snake kept defecating this nowhere near normal fecal matter. From what I can remember my mother said she talked to a woman, unless I was talking about the woman who prepared the snake to leave with me at the show when I originally bought it.

After talking to "Ian" on the phone a week or so after the show, I made a bunch of phone calls to vets in the area. Many of them did not look at snakes, and they kept leading me to other vets that might deal with snakes, but it ended up being a chain of many phone calls to finally get a vet that did take a look at snakes. Once I talked to the receptionist at the vet that took in snakes, I made the soonest possible vet visit I could, which was around 1-2 weeks from talking to Ian.

When I got to the show and talked to Ian, he pulled me behind his table and asked one of his staff members is they remembered me calling in and talking about my sick snake. They were mixing my story with somebody else's story who also had something wrong with their snake. Ian asked the staff member if he remembered talking to me or my mother, so maybe it was just the first guy my mother talked to and I didn't talk to that guy. Because I know the guy I originally talked to on the phone had a short fuse after telling him they had sold me a sick snake and he told me it was bs.

Getting back to the two normal baby ball pythons I bought from Outback, I bought them for a small amount of $25 for the pair. It took me months to get them to eat. I offered them live and f/t rats and mice and finally one of them started to get the hang of eating on his own. The other snake would just sit there and not eat. One day I had fed the one snake that was eating a live mouse and it went for it right away. The next day I found him dead. People told me it could have been a sick mouse...I really don't know. I still have the other ball, but it still is somewhat picky, but I get him to eat usually. I didn't do anything wrong with them from what I know. I followed care sheets on the internet and books I read from when I was new to ball pythons when I picked up the two. I have nothing against Outback for the death of the snake that died out of nowhere.

After him talking to my girlfriend in the way he did, I wanted nothing to do with him or his snakes anymore. He upset her and made me look stupid for saving my snakes life with a "pricey" vet.

The snake was dewormed at the first visit to the vet, but still showed signs of being sick two weeks later. The vet finally called me and told me he must have been calling the wrong number because he was supposed to get back at me with the results of the snakes fecal exam. He told me to come back for the other medicine that was prescribed to my snake. After giving that to the snake, a week later he was showing much improvement. The snake was finally eating for me and it was defecating normally.

Hopefully I can pick up the vet report tomorrow. I will be out of town for most of the day, but it's possible I can still pick it up in the morning.

 

[Abish]

Can you post the emails now, though?

 

[scaledverts]

Bottom line....... Treat people with respect and with a good attitude and you can usually come out on top. If anything learn from this situation and try not to take the same approach.

...........

My name is Joe Ellis. I have bought thousands of dollars worth of animals for the shop I work at and for myself. I almost never have issues. If I ever did they were fix no problem. Ian stands behind his animals and if you treat him with respect he is more than willing to help you out. When you have your mommy and girlfriend come up that makes you look like a . Treat people with respect and you will get it back. People will also respect you more if you did not look like a queer.

Joe Ellis

So are you the pot or the kettle?

 

[Ralphieeeee]

Here's the e-mail I sent to them after going to the vet. I also showed some people pictures of the fecal matter and they told me it might be crypto so I got a little bit worried.

5/13/2009 6:21 PM
To: [email protected]<[email protected]>;

Hello,
I talked to Ian when I called last week about my spider ball python that I thought had internal parasites. I was told that there was no way possible of buying a snake with parasites since your snakes are all captive bred. I just got the results today on my snake from the vet which I went to on Monday. The spider I purchased from you had Hookworm, which should now be gone from the de-worming my snake was given. The fecal exam also showed nematodes which the vet told me could be a sign of Cryptosporidium. The exam is being tested again to see if it has Cryptosporidium for sure. When I go back to the vet for some medication for my snake, I will most likely give the vet another fecal sample to see what's still going on with my snake. I purchased this snake from you in White Plains, NY at the reptile show on Sunday, April 19th for $200. I've already spent $117.00 on vet bills and even more money once I buy the medication for my snake. The vet consisted of a checkup, fecal exam, and de-worming. The snake has been showing signs of sickness since the first week I had him. When it defecated it was all liquid and of a horrid smell. When the vet got a fecal exam from the snake, there was also blood in the fecal matter. Another symptom of the snake being sick has been drooling after drinking water. I don't think it can swallow that well. Also, it will not eat frozen/thawed rats/mice or live as well. The vet told me if it really has Cryptosporidium, to probably find a new home for it since it will harm the rest of my collection. The snake is in quarantine in a glass tank with heatpad, heatlamp, newspaper bedding, with water bowl and hide. The snake is in another room so hopefully none of my other snakes catch it's sickness. What can you do for me since I've gone through all this trouble from buying a "healthy" snake ,from what I was told, from you guys? Let me know. Thanks.

-Ralph Turner

---------------

I had been switching the sick snake in between a glass 30gal tank and a small rack I had no other snakes in because I would bleach/clean the tub/tank after the snake defecated.

I was never e-mailed back, but I'm sure I wasn't being ignored. They probably don't check their online stuff much, I don't know.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

First, your time line is way off from what you said to begin with.

Second, a fecal should be done in the vet. Even my po-dunk little small town vet can do a fecal in the clinic in less than half an hour. Does the vet not have a microscope? Am I somehow not remembering how all the vets I've been around do fecals?

Third, even if the snake did have loose stool, when you went to the show and acted the way you did, I wouldn't expect anyone to bend over backwards to do any deals for you. If the posted price is $200, it doesn't mean $160 to everyone. You were offered a couple different deals or discounts, and it wasn't good enough, so??

 

[geckoprincess]

Your name is "Sara Anne", but he called you "Bro"?

I'm pre op, So I still look like a man... Saving for the operation ('11) hopefully.. wanna hook up?

 

[David Reid]

Ralph, looks like you will be chalking this up to a learning experience. So, I hope you learned a few things, like fight your own battles, sending mom in and having your girlfriend talk for you looks lame. If you had an issue with the snake, and thought it was sick, I would have demanded to send it back immediately. If you take a snake to the vet, especially a month later, with no agreement in place from Ian to pay any vet bills, you will probably eat them. If you go to a place of business and just stare at the guy, that will get you nowhere, and I am surprised you did not get tossed out of the show. The bottom line is, even if you are 100% correct in all you have stated here, and the snake was sick when you got it, you totally went about solving your problem in the wrong way. Hopefully you can look back on it and see where you went wrong. Take your mom and girlfriend out to dinner, to thank them for sticking up for you, but tell em it will be the last time you let then.

Dave

 

[Mike Schultz]

Another symptom of the snake being sick has been drooling after drinking water. I don't think it can swallow that well.

Just pointing out that any snake will drool water out if you disturb it while it is drinking. Kind of hard to hold water with no cheeks I've accidentally picked up boas after they drank and had at least a tablespoon of water splash out of their mouths all over me, lol.

I also want to point out that you were probably cooking and drying out your snake if you had it in a glass aquarium with a heat pad and heat lamp, on a dry substrate like newspaper.

 

[Mike Schultz]

...........




So are you the pot or the kettle?

I think Joe was just demonstrating his point by giving Ralphie the respect he deserved

 

[aleria]

This issue was already reported to the mods once before, and apparently whoever the immature jackoff is that thinks continuing to place derogatory and inappropriate tags on this thread didn't get the point the first time.
I will report this once again and hope the mods will take some action and punish your stupid for turning around and re-doing what they already took the time to remove.

 

[JoeEllisReptiles]

HMM.... So your vet treated your snake for "worms" on the 11th but the results did not come in until the 13th? I think that seems a little off.