About the BOI and it's future here...

[WebSlave]

A couple of days ago I shut down all of the BOI forums on this site in order to get a message across that seemed to be lost in all the static here. I have been dropping hints for months now, but I guess most people didn't put two and two together to realize what they really meant.

In effect, there is a very strong chance that the BOI will be going away permanently. I am retiring my reptile breeding business no later than January 1, 2010, and at that time this site needs to be financially self sufficient to cover the legal and financial liabilities that the BOI is exposing me to for YOU benefit. Let's face it, when I have retired from my reptile breeding business, I really won't need the BOI at all, and if it still exposes me to a lot of financial liability afterwards, it just doesn't make sense for me to bear up under that threat just to help out everyone else here. I just am not willing to shoulder that burden alone when my income will be limited to pretty much my retirement savings. I expect I can make enough money from this site via advertising and the like to help a little with making ends meet, but that could all be wiped out (and then some) if I should have to hire an attorney to fight a lawsuit filed by someone who gets incensed enough over something someone else has posted HERE about them. Yes, I am protected by federal law against legal liability for third party posts, but that only helps me WIN a court case, it is not a protection against the expenses that will be incurred FIGHTING that lawsuit. I would still need to hire an attorney and go to court, regardless. Which could be very expensive. Definitely more than I would want to have to draw out of my retirement funds, let me tell you.

Sorry, but I have no intention of mine and Connie's retirement RUINED because I have given you all the ability to post here in this capacity. So if you aren't willing to pick up most of that burden, then quite frankly, the BOI will be gone. I'm still working on the details of how to do that shutdown in an orderly fashion, and much of that conversation takes place in this thread in the FEEDBACK forum -> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139468

So the ball is in your court now. Between now and January 1, I will have to come to a decision on whether the BOI stays or goes, and quite frankly, that decision will be based on the number of paying memberships this site has which I consider a DIRECT measure of the members support for this site and the BOI.

Sorry it has to be this way, but I have looked at this from every angle I can think of, and there appears to be no other alternative.

Thank you all for being here over the years, whichever way this goes.

 

[Lucille]

that decision will be based on the number of paying memberships this site has which I consider a DIRECT measure of the members support for this site and the BOI.

Give us a number to shoot for. It would be disheartening for a bunch of us to bust our butts trying to get members paid up, only to find that our possible successes did not come up to what you had in mind.

Rome wasn't built in a day, but in six months we could at least do what we can to get paid memberships up.

If memberships fall short a bit of the stated goal, we can work on closing the gap. If memberships exceed what you had in mind, then perhaps people who prior to this didn't help out a bit financially might be really starting to see the value of the BOI.

Please consider giving a number just as a general target.

 

[ToshaMc]

You've run this board for enough years to know what it brings in and what you need to spend on it. Since it obviously doesn't make what you want or need it to then you need to shut it down or sell it to someone that wants to take it over. Otherwise every year you will be playing the same game -- I'm sure it's getting as old for you as it is for the rest of us.

 

[Srakha]

Another way of helping out.. for those of us that use adblockers on our web browsers... is to disable the block on this site, so any ads that give revenue per view will still generate revenue for the site.

 

[WebSlave]

You've run this board for enough years to know what it brings in and what you need to spend on it. Since it obviously doesn't make what you want or need it to then you need to shut it down or sell it to someone that wants to take it over. Otherwise every year you will be playing the same game -- I'm sure it's getting as old for you as it is for the rest of us.

Yes it is getting old for me that I have to remind people that I don't get my servers for free, don't get free legal representation nor free consultation, my programmer doesn't work for free, and neither does my server admin guy. If I didn't feel it was necessary to bring this sort of topic up, certainly I have better things to do with my time. No one is twisting your arm to read what i have to say about such topics so if you feel a need to read about it, likely knowing what it is about, then perhaps you are just searching for something to complain about here. Quite frankly, I will say what the hell I want to on this site whenever the hell I want to. If that gets "old" to you, or anyone else who resents my pointing FACTS out to them that appear to be overlooked or ignored, then the exit door here is not at all difficult to find.

Trust me, the complaints about my complaints are getting EXTREMELY "old" to me.....

 

[WebSlave]

Give us a number to shoot for. It would be disheartening for a bunch of us to bust our butts trying to get members paid up, only to find that our possible successes did not come up to what you had in mind.

Rome wasn't built in a day, but in six months we could at least do what we can to get paid memberships up.

If memberships fall short a bit of the stated goal, we can work on closing the gap. If memberships exceed what you had in mind, then perhaps people who prior to this didn't help out a bit financially might be really starting to see the value of the BOI.

Please consider giving a number just as a general target.

I don't really have a general number to go by. In all levels of paid memberships the number of members who have declined to renew is far greater then the number of current paid members. In one case the number of expired paid subscriptions is nearly 10 times the number of current subscriptions. I guess the impression I get from that is that what this site, and particularly the BOI, has to offer proved to be not worth supporting financially. So of course, that raises the question in my mind about why I should take up that burden myself.

 

[WebSlave]

Another way of helping out.. for those of us that use adblockers on our web browsers... is to disable the block on this site, so any ads that give revenue per view will still generate revenue for the site.

Actually none of the ads displayed on this site are "pay per view". The banner ads I run from my FaunaAds site are paid per day, regardless of the number of views and clicks. The Google ads are the "pay per click" style of advertising.

But thanks for the thought.

 

[Miss Tuniwha]

I have a question Rich... And PLEASE forgive me if this has already been answered (worked a 12 hour shift, got home, then read thru all of this, so I may have not registered it all in my brain)

When/if the BOI ends up being where only paying members can utilize it. Can it still be READ by non viewing members? And THEN if the person wants to put their 2 cents in they would pay and such??

From what I gathered, this was the case.. I just wanted to double check..

Since the BOI is what brought me, and many others here.. (because of doing a google search for the guy that scammed me.. and what do ya know.. there is a "bad guy" thread on him.. ) I would assume/hope that it would still be viewable by outsiders, for that exact reason.

Sorry for most likely asking an already, over answered question. lol

 

[WebSlave]

I have a question Rich... And PLEASE forgive me if this has already been answered (worked a 12 hour shift, got home, then read thru all of this, so I may have not registered it all in my brain)

When/if the BOI ends up being where only paying members can utilize it. Can it still be READ by non viewing members? And THEN if the person wants to put their 2 cents in they would pay and such??

From what I gathered, this was the case.. I just wanted to double check..

Since the BOI is what brought me, and many others here.. (because of doing a google search for the guy that scammed me.. and what do ya know.. there is a "bad guy" thread on him.. ) I would assume/hope that it would still be viewable by outsiders, for that exact reason.

Sorry for most likely asking an already, over answered question. lol

Actually I'm not sure which way I would go with this, if at all. There are three possibilities for limiting viewers to particular forums.

1. members would not be able to see the BOI forum at all.
2. members would be able to see the BOI forum, but no threads inside.
3. members would be able to see the BOI forum and thread topic lines, but no content within those threads.

I can see pros and cons to each of them....

 

[Southern Wolf]

Rich... Im not sure if this is doable with all the mods (not moderators) involved in the site. But could you not set up the "registered & guest" permissions to view only in the BOI and then set up the "contributors" so they can post.

I am an Admin on another site that uses Vbulletin and that is why I thought of this. I was setting up permissions couple days ago for a new area of the site.

 

[WebSlave]

Rich... Im not sure if this is doable with all the mods (not moderators) involved in the site. But could you not set up the "registered & guest" permissions to view only in the BOI and then set up the "contributors" so they can post.

I am an Admin on another site that uses Vbulletin and that is why I thought of this. I was setting up permissions couple days ago for a new area of the site.

Yep. That's the method that would be used to set the "permissions". Each forum can have a separate permissions set for each user group. In most cases, anyway. Some options are global in scope. For instance, the amount of time allowed for edits to be made on posts are global across all member groups and all forums. I can control whether or not those edits can be made within individual forums and by what member groups, but the timeout factor has to apply to all of them.

 

[PaulYancick]

Rich long time reader and fan.

The reptile world needs this place.I don't have a problem with paying,most of us don't.I would hate to donate and this place still close.Im not educated enough to know or understand all the legal issues you may face.Could you post how many paying members you need?Maybe have a graph showing how things are going until you reach your goal?
Thank you,Paul Yancick

 

[Granite]

It sounds like you just are tired of it. The legalities are there, but the truth is, at worst, you'd probably get a letter from an attorney telling you to take a post down. If you did...your problem would be solved. Anyway...sounds like you are wanting to sell it. Why don't you post an ask price and see what happens?

Shawn

 

[Seamus Haley]

It sounds like you just are tired of it. The legalities are there, but the truth is, at worst, you'd probably get a letter from an attorney telling you to take a post down. If you did...your problem would be solved.

Only one of them.

I don't think his integrity would allow him to do that.

Discussions have arisen in the past that were in a similar vein, but without the new financial realities on Rich's side that come with retirement. That pretty significantly changes the entire situation on his end.

A place like the Board of Inquiry (or the better business forums or various consumer reports sites dedicated to other industries) only really works one way- and that way only happens if things are perfect. Halfway measures just don't fulfill the intended purpose. If a letter from a law firm can have posts removed from public view, then the site as a whole is worth a lot less to the users than it was when that was not the case.

Rich, while I still hold to the debate table opinions I expressed during the time immediately prior to the pay to post period of the BOI's history when it comes to the efficiency and value for the users if the structure is changed... I certainly can't deny that your situation has changed from where it was back then. The financial realities of retirement put a brand new spin on the situation.

While I'd kind of rather see the forums which represent liability locked and archived- and the site no longer being the site to post those kinds of threads than see it end up as something less than the arena for free and open communication that it is now- it's obvious to me that things have changed on your end and that *something* needs to change with the website.

You picked up something that wasn't your responsibility to pick up, but that was needed and valuable and you ran with it. I think you know by now that I tend to be a bit of a pessimist and am always up for a critical debate... and while I haven't always agreed with every individual minor decision you have made, your integrity has never been something I questioned. Given the nature of the website you were running, I can't really think of anyone else (aside from perhaps those people you allowed to be moderators for you) who could have dealt with the pressures, the stresses and the threats while maintaining that level of impartiality and dedication.

Whatever you decide to do with the website, for a decade, you have stepped up and taken on a burden that it would have been far easier to ignore or set down. You're pretty much a hero and you more than deserve whatever glorious ride into the sunset you choose for yourself.

Anyway...sounds like you are wanting to sell it. Why don't you post an ask price and see what happens?

He's gotten a few offers, none of them really all that reasonable. Some from well intentioned folks who just underestimated the website's value- some from crooked scum who just want to gut what he's created and use it to glorify themselves.

There are various websites that estimate the value of other websites. They look at total hits, unique IPs that visit, bandwidth and ad potential and where the domain name shows up in search engines- plug all that through some algorithms that punch out a number that functions as a sort of estimated value compiled from all that information. Those websites usually vary a bit, but the estimated value of this domain name runs between $21,000 and about $30,000 strictly based on those numbers. Those numbers do not take into account the awareness of the domain name within the reptile industry (the primary target audience), the uniqueness of the content, the comprehensiveness of the content or any of the pride of ownership that Rich should (hopefully) feel for what he has accomplished.

Even at the baseline estimated value based on hits... there aren't too many people who have that kind of money to spend on a website like this. Of those, most are deeply involved in running their own businesses and probably do not have the time or inclination to pick up all the associated effort of this website, however much they value it. And even then, as Rich has been quite forward about some of the realities of running the website, they'd also be shouldering the financial and legal burdens that he has faced for ten years now and would need to invest additional money in their own legal defense fund- even though, as Rich says, the laws are pretty clear on the matter. Lawyers rarely work for free, even if they're pretty much guaranteed to win their case.

 

[Granite]

Only one of them.

Those numbers do not take into account the awareness of the domain name within the reptile industry (the primary target audience), the uniqueness of the content, the comprehensiveness of the content or any of the pride of ownership that Rich should (hopefully) feel for what he has accomplished.
QUOTE]


This is all stuff that really has no bearing on the sale price of a website. At the end of the day, when someone buys a business (which this is), it's the revenue that outlines the price. The brand is only valuable if it's being used to sell something. In this case, revenue is generated by subscriptions and advertising, so you should be able to show the last few year income without too much trouble. Like I said, throw a number out there and see what happens. I think you'd find that someone in the community would be willing to take the plunge rather than just let the board die.

 

[MedusaCoils]

Has any decision been made, as to, if and when access to the BOI is going to be limited to contributing members? Do you think it will be done, prior to 1 January 2010?

Wayne

 

[WebSlave]

No, no decisions have been made, if for no other reason then this is not top of my priority list right now. Honestly, I believe the longer I wait the more significant traffic will become in the classifieds section, and the less significant the BOI will be to the survival of this site if it has to get the axe.

And no, this site is not for sale. Just a FYI, someone did offer me a car that I would value at roughly $55,000 in trade value for this site and I turned that down.

And really, Seamus, ME, a hero? I'm trying to figure out a way to carry a concealed shotgun at Expo this year. I'm thinking I may have to hollow out my right leg or something. There are a lot of people who seem to hold me personally responsible for what they have brought upon themselves in their business and interpersonal dealings by what has been exhibited on this site with and without their own participation. I'm just glad that the palm trees around Expo don't have limbs that they could throw a rope over and stretch my neck with that weekend....

 

[MedusaCoils]

And really, Seamus, ME, a hero? I'm trying to figure out a way to carry a concealed shotgun at Expo this year. I'm thinking I may have to hollow out my right leg or something.

Forget the Shotgun, even though they are my favorite personal protection device, (no need to aim, just point) Bring either the M82A1, M99 or the M95. The ones you posted pics of in CAV's forum on cs.com. Just the look of those alone, would make any would be attacker, poop in their pants! LOL!

Wayne

 

[MikeCurtin]

I've seen a couple people asking for target numbers and such, as well as mentioning or suggesting that it's not worth contributing unless there's a goal. Rich took a risk in starting this site, and has continued to stick his neck out for the community, despite the ever-present threats of lawsuits. Isn't it worth sticking our necks out for him?

Here's a thought...everyone turn off your monitors, and then try to count the number of potential bad deals you avoided with the help of the BOI. Now put a dollar amount on each deal. Got a number? I'm sure the BOI would appreciate a thank-you.

 

[hhmoore]

I've seen a couple people asking for target numbers and such, as well as mentioning or suggesting that it's not worth contributing unless there's a goal. Rich took a risk in starting this site, and has continued to stick his neck out for the community, despite the ever-present threats of lawsuits. Isn't it worth sticking our necks out for him?

Here's a thought...everyone turn off your monitors, and then try to count the number of potential bad deals you avoided with the help of the BOI. Now put a dollar amount on each deal. Got a number? I'm sure the BOI would appreciate a thank-you.

My impression of those suggestions is that people just don't want to contribute...but maybe they will if they absolutely have to in order to keep the BOI operational. Basically, if enough other people pick up the slack & contribute enough to just barely meet some arbitrary goal, they won't have to reach into their pockets.