Bad Guy JWI (Joe Imperatori) selling Sri Lankan stars

[Joe I]

Jeremy was using a 20 gallon glass aquarium in which he was using for his Indian Star tortoise.

 

[starry night]

And? I bought the new 40 gallon aquarium to put ceylon in and that is what I've been using since the day I got him/her. The 20 gallon was for a much smaller tortoise.

 

[Shadera]

On the issue in the first doc regarding the misidentified species name, that could be the tech's error. This second doc does indicate that the tortoise was treated for what Jeremy claimed it was.

So I guess the question now is where and when did the tortoise pick up these infections?

I finally got them open to see them. I agree.

Is it possible to have the parasites and such listed in the report in a collection without knowing it? It is something they should be treated for periodically, or is it only after they've been tested and diagnosed positive? Like birds..you typically don't have to worm birds unless they come into regular contact with soil.

 

[Joe I]

Hello again everyone. I simply signed on to this BOI to tell my side of the story. Most of important facts were conveniently left out by Jeremy. I raised my Sri lankan stars and now breed them because I love the animals and the hobby. Now we see that Jeremy's non-reptile Vet. treated a "Leopard Tortoise". I felt I have defended my sell sufficiently enough in which any person can make their own decision if they want to buy an animal from me or not. Its up to you to decide. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done. The one glitch I see with the BOI is that once a "Bad Guy" thread is started it cannot be retracted. Most people will do a search and only read the first page or so. Not the entire thing. So they see "Joe- Bad Guy" and stop there. And for that reason Jeremy wins, right????

If I am wrong about a Bad Guy post being able to be retracted, please let me know. If I am correct and a "Bad Guy" post is irreversible then I have to say the BOI is unfair.

Jeremy if you want to bring a lawsuit. I will most definitely have to file a counter suit for slander, time, and expenses as well. Otherwise this matter is closed. Even after how much you have screwed me I wish you the best in the future. Maybe you can find another breeder that will make you happier. Take care, Joe...

 

[rosebud945]

That is true, except for insect and rodent born diseases. If you only have a few birds and no insect or wild rat problem, then you are fine. But roaches and rats carry parasites and certain protozoic infections, and can spread those to pet birds and herps, and if you have more than a few animals, like I do, then you have a constant battle with these types of invaders.

But for the most part, you don't expect cb babies to have parasites unless they are exposed to the feces of infected adults or to infected substrate. If you import or add wc to your collection for the purpose of diversifying bloodlines, then you should do fecals at least periodically, because a fecal can be false negative, or if you house your animals outside, then you should definitely get routine fecals done.

 

[rosebud945]

Now we see that Jeremy's non-reptile Vet. treated a "Leopard Tortoise".

Joe, just because someone starts a bad guy thread does not mean that you are labeled as such, but statements like this make me trust you less! You have taken several statements and put spins on them that have no strong basis in logic. Who said the vet was not a reptile vet?? My vet, who is an excellent exotics/reptile vet will sometimes send samples or animals to our vet school for a more thorough investigation. As I understand it, Jeremy took the tort to a reptile vet who sent him to the school for a more thorough examination.

On the animal name listed in the species field, that is clearly an error. For one thing, vets have codes in their digital data bases and if a specific species doesn't exist in the code, the receptionist or vet tech will substitute. I have gone in with a chuckwalla, and since a chuck is not a common species seen in a vet's office, they recorded it as an iguana. Then you have simple tech error. If the tech submitting the data has only worked with box turtles and occasionally leopard torts, then he or she might assume its a leopard tort. Working around vets offices as i have for years, this leopard tort issue is a non issue for me unless proven otherwise. In all of the documentation, the pet name is used, so I tend to think it is an error rather than Jeremy trying to pull a fast one.

Joe, I don't think you are a bad guy, yet, but if you keep making statements like this, I have to wonder! It seems pretty clear that the tort that you sold Jeremy had several infections, so why not try to figure out how and where it got the infections instead of grasping at straws, because that is what these statements seem like to me. Why have you not addressed my suggestion of getting a fecal done to rule out the possibility that the infections could have originated at your place? Do you keep your hatchlings indoors and completely separate from the adults from the moment they hatch? Do you practice sterile technique when moving from the adults to the babies? If not, then a fecal seems like a reasonable request here.

 

[starry night]

The reason it says leopard tortoise on the paperwork is because their computer does not have "sri lankan star" as an option in the breed selection on the computer. I just returned from the vet office with all the paperwork and this is what they informed me of. I have stated my part only to let other know what to expect and just to have the information to make an informed decision. I have no hard feelings against Joe and feel truly that he has good intentions with his breeding. I only feel as if I received an animal that was sick and spent over $700 to make sure it survived. Ceylon is still clearly not out of the woods yet as he has not gained any weight in the past month or so and is only at 70 grams for a 8 month old tortoise. Please don't read into this thread incorrectly as I am not trying to Bash Joe, I only want others to know what to watch for.

 

[jayefbe]

Hello again everyone. I simply signed on to this BOI to tell my side of the story. Most of important facts were conveniently left out by Jeremy. I raised my Sri lankan stars and now breed them because I love the animals and the hobby. Now we see that Jeremy's non-reptile Vet. treated a "Leopard Tortoise". I felt I have defended my sell sufficiently enough in which any person can make their own decision if they want to buy an animal from me or not. Its up to you to decide. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done. The one glitch I see with the BOI is that once a "Bad Guy" thread is started it cannot be retracted. Most people will do a search and only read the first page or so. Not the entire thing. So they see "Joe- Bad Guy" and stop there. And for that reason Jeremy wins, right????

If I am wrong about a Bad Guy post being able to be retracted, please let me know. If I am correct and a "Bad Guy" post is irreversible then I have to say the BOI is unfair.

Jeremy if you want to bring a lawsuit. I will most definitely have to file a counter suit for slander, time, and expenses as well. Otherwise this matter is closed. Even after how much you have screwed me I wish you the best in the future. Maybe you can find another breeder that will make you happier. Take care, Joe...

Joe, I'm assuming that you don't believe the tortoise was infected with parasites before you sent it out. Actually, it sounds like you believe this whole thread was a ploy to scam you out of some tortoises.

I don't find that scenario very plausible. The buyer has produced vet reports that look very legit. So, it appears as though the tortoise did in fact have parasites. Where do you believe that the parasites came from? Would you be willing to have a fecal done on your collection in an effort to prove that your animals are clean? I know that you want to clear your name, but the simplest way to do that, short of concocting conspiracy theories, is to just prove that your animals are clean and the parasites were likely from the buyer's end.

I have not been convinced either way given the information that is available. I do believe that the tortoise had parasites. It also appears as though the buyer re-used a tank that previously held a tortoise. It's also unclear why the buyer sold a star tortoise (Indian) only to buy another one. It's also unclear why he was willing to purchase more tortoises after this whole scenario. If money was the limiting factor in purchasing more than one, than why and how can you buy more once you've already spent hundreds on vet bills?

Fingers are pointing in every direction, and it's unclear who may be at fault.

 

[starry night]

The first tortoise I had was an "indian" star tortoise. I saw pictures of Joes animals and wanted a "Sri Lankan" star tortoise which grow much more different in their shell growth and much more pretty. I did not re-use the 20 gallon tank, I purchased a 40 gallon tank for ceylon and still have him in the 40 gallon and the 20 gallon is still on my back porch. I want to build up my own heard of "sri Lankan" stars so that I might start breeding them someday. If you look at the pictures of Joe's adults he has some of the best looking Sri lankans i could find. I have now learned that not all Sri lankans grow this way and have spoken with several other breeders about buying from them. I sold some assets while abroad in Europe which has given me the money needed to obtain new animals. I have stated my peace and I am not trying to point any finger for any fault. I only wanted "buyer beware." Take it as you wish.

 

[Joe I]

Hello Donna. The eggs are dug out of the ground and placed in an incubator. Once hatched I keep them indoors away from the adults. Due to predators, the South Florida sun, etc. I do not permanently move a tortoise outside unless it is at least 4 inches in length. Otherwise my babies are on fresh substrate (clay kitty litter) every clutch. My breeding adults are captive born and so are my babies. I have had no problems thus far. Thank you for your concern. Joe...

 

[Joe I]

Jeremy wrote: "Please don't read into this thread incorrectly as I am not trying to Bash Joe, I only want others to know what to watch for."

You contacted Kingsnake abuse dept., you contacted other Sri Breeders, and started this thread, but you are not trying to bash me... you have got to be kidding me!


I did not see that anyone has posted that a "Bad Guy" thread can be retracted. So, if that is true, there is permanent damage done here and my opinion stands as the BOI is totally unfair.

 

[rosebud945]

That is not true. No, it can't be retracted, but several good guys have had bad guy threads started about them, and they came out looking like good guys because they responded appropriately and were proven to be on the side of right. Do a search on Ben Siegel. He has a couple of bad guy threads, but he always comes out fine. I would buy from him.

Thank you for discussing your procedure with the eggs and hatchlings. If you do take these precautions, then your hatchlings aren't likely to have parasites, but the adults very well could. I still think that a sample fecal from the babies could end this whole discussion. If someone approached me with accusations that one of my baby collareds had one to several communicable diseases, I would just get the fecal to both disprove the accusations and to make sure that my animals aren't sick! My baby collareds go for around $50, and I would still spring for a fecal.

This is a hard case. I tend to think that Jeremy has the stronger case only because he has hard evidence, but it still doesn't explain when and where the tort was exposed to the parasites.

 

[Joe I]

Hello Joshua. Wow, it seems like the BOI is "entertainment" for some people. I appreciate you taking the time to right. But this seems to be a "no win" situation that will go in circles. I have no other customers complain of any type of diseases or concern with my babies. I have been breeding Sri's for years now. Yes, I believe Jeremy's tortoise had parasites. But they did not come from my animals! I believe it came from his Indian Star tortoise in which he used the same enclosure as the Sri Lankan. So now, we should have a fecal done on that owner's entire herd, right? I just want to rewind a minute. If Jeremy would handled this differently and have come to me first and said that there was a problem, I would have switched the tortoise out. But Jeremy took it upon himself to have treatment done to the tortoise before speaking with the breeder about it. (I know that I am not the only tortoise breeder that feels this way.) That is grounds for "you bought that animal!" Then Jeremy has made some permanent damage here with some various steps he has taken. But its too late for any kind of repair, the damage has been done. I am still confused as to why he wants more of my tortoises! According to Jeremy my tortoises have parasites and are sick. Funny thing is that I have had no complaints or deaths with my herd up until Jeremy's accusations. Only a regretable sale to an inexperienced keeper. Thanks again for you input. Joe...

 

[Joe I]

Hello again Donna. I was just making the statement that many people find that there is a "bad guy" thread about someone and that they are not going to take the time to read all the facts. As for you feeling Jeremy is in the right, well that is okay as you are entitled to your opinion. I am just a private breeder trying to keep the species thriving. I am not out to get anyone. I had offered Jeremy a discount on another tortoise back before he threatened me in an email back in April 09'. Then I did not hear any contact from him until 7/22/09. This is a "no win" situation as the damage has already been done. I am not going to want to help Jeremy after the way he has handled himself with me. He should have given me a chance to swap the tortoise out (speak to the breeder) before taking it upon himself to have treatment done on it and then contact me. This whole situation has be very disturbing. I thank you again for your input. Best wishes, Joe...

 

[rosebud945]

That is a good point about not talking to you first, but without a vet visit, how would he know that the issue was in fact parasites? It is up to you whether you want to go to the trouble of getting a fecal done. IMO, you could remove all doubt by doing it, but that is up to you. You might have been breeding for years, but things come up, right?

As for the people who glance at the thread titles and make assumptions, do you really want those kinds of customers anyway, ie, people who don't think too deeply? I suspect that when you are breeding something as uncommon and specialized as a Sri Lankan, your potential customers will look deeper into the thread. Again, JMHO.

 

[Joe I]

Hello Donna. This is a no win situation. And yes, most people will be lazy and not read the entire thread so it is very damaging in the long run. As far as a fecal exam, what will that solve? I have many Sri Lankans. Okay, lets say I come back and post a fecal exam that comes out perfect. It still does not solve the problem as the damage has been done here already. Joe "Bad Guy"... that cannot be removed. Then the next issue will be "how do we know the fecal was done on the right set of parents, babies etc., etc. Just trying to be real here. Again a no win. (If the BOI would completely purge this thread out of existence I would agree to a fecal.)- So I will put it to the Test!

The right move on Jeremy's part would have been to inform me there was a problem. Then we talk about it or replace the animal and I take back the original animal I sent him. But Jeremy took it upon himself to have the Vet. School give the animal an injection and prescribe oral medication. I was not going to take back an animal that had been pumped full of antibiotics from a Vet. I was unfamiliar with. I have talked with several other breeders just to double check myself on this topic and there is no difference in opinion. Some of which said to avoid the BOI as much as possible. I mean no disrespect to anyone that likes this site at any time, as this is my first experience on this site, but I too, am entitled to my opinion. But, this whole thread and experience feels very unfair! Kingsnake was very sensitive to my situation and I thought they handled it quite nicely.

On a very positive note: Everyone here has been very polite and for that, I thank you! I wish everyone the very best and happy herping! Joe...

 

[worldismarble]

I was alerted to this thread, and just want to notify everyone NEVER to do business with Joe Imperatori again. He sold me an adult male sri lankan star tortoise for $2k. The animal came with extreme shell rot to the point where the entire plastron was almost coming apart. The animal is with a friend now (who happens to be a vet) and is recovering from the poor husbandry he suffered while with Mr. Imperatori.

Joe very promptly began to call me names, and refused to acknowledge anything of the matter once confronted with this. This persona is a liar and a cheat. Never do business.

 

[starry night]

Thanks "worldismarble". I heard about your situation from a friend and was waiting for your input. Now two is better than one. Can you provide us with pictures and emails to back this up so I'm not the only one standing on this claim here.

 

[rosebud945]

Yeah, if you could provide some documentation, that would be good.

Also, is your name Ici Li? Interesting name if it is, but if it isn't, the BOI requires your full name or your post will be pulled I think.

 

[starry night]

Dear Mods,
I wish to ask if this post can be removed. If this may be done then please do so by my asking.