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Bad Guy Calientedragons - Rankin Dragons

The bottom line here is that Heidi said she would refund. If she had done what she said she would do, this thread would be buried several pages back by now. This is business, not high school. You can't just stomp your feet and say you aren't refunding now because the customer hurt your feelings. I'm not saying that I don't think Wendy is a pain in the backside, but if you want to run an honest, respectable business, sometimes you have to do the right thing even if you don't really want to.

On a side note, reguardless of how warped I think Cryptic Dragon's opinions on business are, posting a pic of him and his wife was irrelevant, and uncalled for. Lisa Sox
 
What I have said from the beginning is that there were several phone calls between Jeane and Heidi that odviously there is no way of documenting. Heidi told jeane to return the dragons for a refund, that she would fight it out with Gary, that he was the one who didnt want to refund, not her.

As per their discussion that weekend, we returned the dragons.

I dont have anything to lie about, I POSTED all the emails.

My attempt to link to Cryptic Dragons myspace was that his page says that he is stationed at a military base- and posting from there during work. I thought I was posting the link for his myspace page. I clicked on the properties of the gif that is above the photo that is blue and white and says my space. I dunno why it linked to his profile pic.
 
Seems like a few are trying to side with caliente and put the blame on Wendy here.

If Wendy is this, that or the other in her personal life has no bearing at all on this transaction.

A reasonable person could see who is in the wrong here looking thru 10 miles of dense fog in a howling nor'easter in the frozen month of January 100 miles off the coast of Jersey!!

caliente is completely in the wrong for offering a refund then not providing said refund.

Don't side with a person because they are friends or you like them, or maybe the other person is someone you despise. there is a right and a wrong to always consider.

caliente is wrong in so many different ways here.
 
spokanelizardlady said:
What I have said from the beginning is that there were several phone calls between Jeane and Heidi that odviously there is no way of documenting. Heidi told jeane to return the dragons for a refund, that she would fight it out with Gary, that he was the one who didnt want to refund, not her.

As per their discussion that weekend, we returned the dragons.

I dont have anything to lie about, I POSTED all the emails.

My attempt to link to Cryptic Dragons myspace was that his page says that he is stationed at a military base- and posting from there during work. I thought I was posting the link for his myspace page. I clicked on the properties of the gif that is above the photo that is blue and white and says my space. I dunno why it linked to his profile pic.
Click to expand...

how easy would it have been to merely post the link of my myspace site. Kind of like how yours is in the your signature. no you decided it was necessary to post my picture which in my opinion is you trying to in some way threaten me. oh and what i do with my time is none of your business as no matter what at the end of the day my chose profession makes it possible for people like you to do and say what they want. yes i post throughout the day on my phone why because i can. My job is mainly based overseas. Places like iraq and afg and i have been to both. What have you done for your country? Nothing right. exactly. You just wanted to try and be a annoyance and post a picture of my wife and i because you are a vendictive little child. You call me young and a child when it is you whom is acting like one. I sincerely hope that the admin folks do something about that photo cause it is completely wrong of you to have posted it. You are a horrid person and i hope you never see a dime now because you offended me and no other reason. I will freely admit that now i feel you dont deserve a refund purely based on the type of person you are. I originally was arguing this from a business standpoint but you chose to turn it personal. I hope you never ever need anything from me in your life and you probably wont which is lucky for you. I wouldnt give you a glass of water if you were dying of thirst in the middle of the Sahara.
 
Posting personal photos and continuing this back & forth nitpicking re: posting personal photos, na na boo boo, you are this, you are that ... blah blah blah. All off-topic, all irrelevent.

Stay on topic.
 
spokanelizardlady said:
What I have said from the beginning is that there were several phone calls between Jeane and Heidi that odviously there is no way of documenting. Heidi told jeane to return the dragons for a refund, that she would fight it out with Gary, that he was the one who didnt want to refund, not her.
Click to expand...


400 plus posts and you come out with this little nugget of info now?


Yah...right
 
Ed Clark said:
caliente is completely in the wrong for offering a refund then not providing said refund.

caliente is wrong in so many different ways here.
Click to expand...



I totally agree with the first statement above in bold Ed.

I totally disagree with the second statement in bold Ed. The only thing they did wrong is say they would refund and then renege.
 
The good that has come from this thread is that maybe more SELLERS will research BUYERS. It's pretty obvious what can happen if you get someone like Wendy as a buyer. A little case of buyer's remorse and she has done her best to ruin someone's reputation.
 
jglass38 said:
It's pretty obvious what can happen if you get someone like Wendy as a buyer. A little case of buyer's remorse and she has done her best to ruin someone's reputation.
Click to expand...

They also did a good job of ruining their rep by taking a hard line stance on not giving a refund even after they received their dragons back in good condition.

Buyers remorse or misrepresentation by caliente?

Maybe it was smart of gary to shut heidi up with not allowing her to post anymore?

or was that the other way around?
 
Ed Clark said:
They also did a good job of ruining their rep by taking a hard line stance on not giving a refund even after they received their dragons back in good condition.

Buyers remorse or misrepresentation by caliente?

Maybe it was smart of gary to shut heidi up with not allowing her to post anymore?

or was that the other way around?
Click to expand...

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. They probably should have given the refund if only to shut up the petulant child.
 
Suncoast Herpetological said:
A number of you have stated that the seller’s original ad was dishonest. In order for the ad to be dishonest, the sellers would have had to intended to be deceptive. This statement was based on two points in the ad.

1. The statement “unrelated to US bloodlines”

To the best of their knowledge…this was a true statement.
Click to expand...

What Caliente has done with their ad is just as dishonest as a seller who sells normals as 100% hets without ANY documentation or proof. Using your logic, this same seller would be an honest business person simply because it is "to the best of their knowledge" (just because the person/business they are aquiring the "hets" from told them they were 100% het???) I'm sorry, but if a seller chooses to sell an animal with unique qualities (such as "not related to any US bloodline")...then that seller has a responsiblity to verify the information they are providing to their customers, if they intend to be an "honest" seller.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138663

If their ad wasn't dishonest, then why have they changed the wording? The link above is Caliente's ad for the Rankins...if you look through it Caliente has dropped the term "unrelated to any US bloodline". If they changed the wording, then they have acknowledged they can't prove these dragons are unrelated to any US bloodline (as was ORIGINALLY STATED in their original KS ad). So if the original ad wasn't DISHONEST, then it was WRONG (Caliente's mistake for not verifing the information they were claiming)...if the ad was wrong, then Wendy deserves ALL her money back. So which is it? DISHONEST, or WRONG (again, if the ad was wrong, it's not the fault of the customer).
 
wes smith said:
What Caliente has done with their ad is just as dishonest as a seller who sells normals as 100% hets without ANY documentation or proof. Using your logic, this same seller would be an honest business person simply because it is "to the best of their knowledge" (just because the person/business they are aquiring the "hets" from told them they were 100% het???) I'm sorry, but if a seller chooses to sell an animal with unique qualities (such as "not related to any US bloodline")...then that seller has a responsiblity to verify the information they are providing to their customers, if they intend to be an "honest" seller.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138663

If their ad wasn't dishonest, then why have they changed the wording? The link above is Caliente's ad for the Rankins...if you look through it Caliente has dropped the term "unrelated to any US bloodline". If they changed the wording, then they have acknowledged they can't prove these dragons are unrelated to any US bloodline (as was ORIGINALLY STATED in their original KS ad). So if the original ad wasn't DISHONEST, then it was WRONG (Caliente's mistake for not verifing the information they were claiming)...if the ad was wrong, then Wendy deserves ALL her money back. So which is it? DISHONEST, or WRONG (again, if the ad was wrong, it's not the fault of the customer).
Click to expand...

very much in agreement. It is the advertising that has bothered me most about Caliente in this whole situation.
 
Just a question but how do you provide undeniable proof. Some ask for papers but they can be fake. Some want to see bloodlines but they can be
lied about. So many questions of prove it.
Take the het example how do you prove it unless you have video of the birthing and undeniable markings unique to a baby on the video how can you
be sure with proving out that it is a het.
Like stated there is a constant that caliente should have show proof what kind of proof would have sufficed?

Just one more note and not passing judgement but a persons history is relevent to any case. Thats why character witnesses are called into a court room.
 
One more thing the sad thing here is only a few people argueing for wendy are only on her side because the refund was promised by a 50% partner where as in the business world with a 50% ownership you still can not make a move without the other owners consent. So caliente technically did not offer a refund one of the partners did (which yes is a representative)
Heidi opened her mouth promised it and should pay the refund but it should come out of her pocket. I know wendy doesn't care where it comes nor would I.
 
bayoucityboas said:
Just a question but how do you provide undeniable proof. Some ask for papers but they can be fake. Some want to see bloodlines but they can be
lied about. So many questions of prove it.
Take the het example how do you prove it unless you have video of the birthing and undeniable markings unique to a baby on the video how can you
be sure with proving out that it is a het.
Like stated there is a constant that caliente should have show proof what kind of proof would have sufficed?

Just one more note and not passing judgement but a persons history is relevent to any case. Thats why character witnesses are called into a court room.
Click to expand...

Character witnesses are only called to testify if it is relevant to the charges. In this case, it isn't. I'm not defending Wendy's personal ethics or past judgment, but in this case it has absolutely zero bearing on this matter.

In most cases, a specified locality or species is backed up by pedigree. If you buy a pure diamond, the seller has records backing up where they were bought and who produced them. Many go back multiple generations, and can be traced to initial importations (or smugglings). Caliente's records go back to....nowhere. They can prove that they bought them from overseas. That is it. They are advertised as pure Lawson's, and as unrelated to anything in the US. Both have absolutely no documentation, or even clues or hints to the animal's heritage to back these claims up.

That would be akin to me purchasing a random hogg island boa, and then trying to resell it making claims that it is 100% pure. Yeah, there's a chance that it is, but those chances are very slight, and I have absolutely nothing to support my claims.

Going back to your het example. I could buy a bunch of normals and sell them as possible hets. From this, NOBODY could PROVE that I was scamming people. Does this make it ok? Does it make it right? No, it would make me a scumbag. No, we can't prove that Caliente's claims were entirely false, but we CAN say with CERTAINTY that there is no evidence to support them.
 
bayoucityboas said:
Just a question but how do you provide undeniable proof. Some ask for papers but they can be fake. Some want to see bloodlines but they can be
lied about.
Click to expand...

This is idiotic. Yes, people can lie. They can fake paperwork. So your response to the fact that people can lie is to defend a KNOWN LIAR? I am certain that Caliente made claims in which they knowingly stretched the truth. And for some reason, because anyone can lie, it makes it ok?!?!??!?!

Unfortunately for Caliente, they ran into a buyer that exposed them.
 
What Caliente has done with their ad is just as dishonest as a seller who sells normals as 100% hets without ANY documentation or proof. Using your logic, this same seller would be an honest business person simply because it is "to the best of their knowledge" (just because the person/business they are aquiring the "hets" from told them they were 100% het???)
Click to expand...

That has to be one of the worst analogies i have seen in print in a long time. Of course that is not the same thing. How do equate knowingly deceiving someone by selling fake possible hets to this situation? They were imported from someone who stated that they were unrelated, the importer told the seller they were unrelated, and they came from freaking Europe! exactly what level of "proof" are you looking for?

And as to the second half of that implausible statement it doesn't make enough sense to even respond to



I'm sorry, but if a seller chooses to sell an animal with unique qualities (such as "not related to any US bloodline")...then that seller has a responsiblity to verify the information they are providing to their customers, if they intend to be an "honest" seller.
Click to expand...

Again Wes...what level of proof are you referring to? Absolute proof? Can't be done.



If their ad wasn't dishonest, then why have they changed the wording? The link above is Caliente's ad for the Rankins...if you look through it Caliente has dropped the term "unrelated to any US bloodline".
Click to expand...


Sure they have. Because of this thread they realized that some rather unreasonable folks are attempting to request absolute proof of that. If their ad had stated "To the best of our knowledge" or "based on what we have been told by both the importer and the supplier" I, personally, would have had no problem either of those statements.

I don't think that anyone reading this thread does not think that the seller's truly believed that the animals are unrelated.

Bear in mind also that when lending weight to statements, the sellers have an impeccable reputation. I think they made a mistake in not honoring the offer of a refund but till this thread, i have never heard a bad word said about them

The buyer's past reputation in this industry speaks for itself
 
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142679

Ya, real honest people. PLEASE! EVERYONE knows there is no "true" red in beardeds, they are all a shade of orange. These photos have been photoshoped. The backgrounds are red, the wood is pink for crist sakes.

Ya ,REAL HONEST SELLERS. Lets see that dragon outside on a hand, where skin color is blatant.
 
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