06 Trade Evidence
Sorry for the delay.
From: <
[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:52 AM
To: <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
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> Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
>
> how many female ball pythons are you looking to get for all 3 boas?....I have 7 females all over 1100 g
From: "Mickeysnightmare" <
[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:09 PM
To: <
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
> Alexa is already spoken for. I still do have the other 2 Rosie & Hearts. How
> many females balls are you willing to trade?
>
> Thank you,
> Jane Whited
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:14 PM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
2 females per boa? would that be ok?
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:49 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
Sounds great. Give me a call or send me your number & we'll workout the details.
Thanks again,
Jane Whited
Mickey's Nightmare
423-504-2868
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 4:52 PM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
do you have pics of the boas?
Call Recieved from John.
John called & we spoke for about 30 minutes. We decided that since neither of us had references that we would ship at the same time. I'd seen this done in the past. After talking to him he seemed like a family man who was trying to get his business up & running. I was trying to get into ball pythons so I thought this was a good deal. We decided 2 balls per boa. This is from my notes from that conversation.
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:36 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
Jane Whited
XXXX XXXXXX XXXX XX(Blocked for safety)
Chattanooga, TN 37406
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:37 PM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
john nessing
902 e. bain st.
ozark, mo
65721
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:41 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
I just went to check on the snakes again and noticed that Dots eyes are blue. Just wanted you to know, she is sometimes a little edgy in shed. I will mist her w/pedialyte, her bag & papers before I ship to hold her humidity up some.
Thanks,
Jane Whited
Mickey's Nightmare
423-504-2868
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 10:37 PM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
sounds great, thanx for the heads up
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 6:13 AM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
is shipping an option on the vision cage / cages ? or is it too big? if so what whould you want for it / them? or the smaller one? my offer on alexa would be two more ball females that could breed next year
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:56 AM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
I told you if anyone else became available I would let you know. I just received an email that the gentleman would not be able to take Alexa so the trade fell through on Alexa & the 6ft vision. Alexa is the Guyana/Surinam BCC that is aggressive at my guess closer to 6ft and maybe 10 lbs or maybe more. When I adopted her she was kept in a 125 gal glass aquarium since she was 2ft. Temps not regulated nor a hide box. She wasn't handled except roughly w/hook. She doesn't like being off the floor even in hands. I think she was dropped off a hook a few times. She was only feed once per month. She had what appeared to be hook marks (roughed scales in lines all over her). These have dimished greatly the last tim I had her out. More may be gone since her last shed, I have been unable to hold her since due to my injury. Since she has been here she has calmed down. I still must be very careful & hold her so she can't bite me. She will only eat F/T guinea pigs or xs rabbits (every 2 weeks lately) off the cage bottom in private. She has gained weight & had her 1st full shed on 3/3/06. She has refused large rats ever since dummy me gave her a guinea pig. I swear the man we got her from was an idiot. He never told my husband when he picked her up that she was aggressive until he had been bitten 5 times. To date she likes me much better than my husband(loves to strike). I can now change her water bowl & some of her papers w/o getting struck at. Only time will tell with her if she will finally truly calm down. If interested in more female ball python trades for her let me know, if not I'll ship the others as scheduled.
Thanks in advance,
Jane Whited
Mickey's Nightmare
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:08 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
They can be seen at
https://home.comcast.net/~mickeysnightmare/.
There are healthy, very strong F/T rat feeders. I know that they weigh over 2.2 lbs as my new scale hasn't arrived yet. There attitudes are just not predictable.
If still interested do you have pics of your girls. Are they healthy? What are they feeding on (live, F/T, pk)? Any other info such as breeder, DOB etc?
Thanks again,
Jane Whited
Mickey's Nightmare
423-504-2868
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 10:24 AM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
The vision cage I'm sure could be shipped but it would cost a lot. This cage is huge & heavy.I can't even lift one end of it. The 2 4ft we are keeping for a our boas that will grow into it for now. I'll accept your offer on Alexa for the 2 that will breed next year. What size food are they eating? Do you know DOB, CH or CB, parents, breeder of these? Do you have a business name or do I just use your name on these babies I'm getting from you? I try to get as much info on all of mine for the site. I have attached her file as well. She has been offered more food than she's eaten. I'm thrown out 6 large rats, 2 lg guinea pigs & 1 xs Rabbit because she didn't eat it after leaving it overnight as this is the only way I have ever gotten her to eat. She has occasionally took 3 from tongs but immediately spits it out. I will ship out all tonight. Enjoy your new ladies.
Thanks again,
Jane Whited
Mickey's Nightmare
423-504-2868
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:46 AM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
eating f/t small rats weekly, captive bred, bred by Ball creations.
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:40 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
Your Fedex tracking number is 8560 4413 3513. Let me know when they arrive.
Thanks again,
Jane
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 10:36 AM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
Have you shipped the 8 females? Please email me when you get your ladies and let me know when to expect mine?
Thanks again,
Jane
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 11:24 AM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
I meant to say 9 females, 7 breedable now, 2 breedable next year.
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:30 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
Please let me know how the babies that I sent you are doing? I would also appreciate it if you could send me a tracking number on the 9 females you were suppose to ship to me yesterday in this trade. Please let me know what's going on.
Thanks in advance,
Jane Whited
423-504-2868
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:11 PM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
I am very sorry for the mishap, I in no way want you to feel like i scammed you,....My wife was supposed to ship out today while I was at work, but the baby got sick and she didnt go......And in a way its a good thing...I got an email today from a friend of mine, he has 15 females on their way to me, some possibly already gravid, the snakes you sent me are absolutely georgeous....I will send you all 9 LARGE females and you may even be suprised to find some little buns in the oven if you know what I mean,....all I ask is that you be slightly patient and I promise you that you wont be dissapointed....I may even throw in one of the pastel females he is sending,.depending on how many of the pastels he sends me...Again I am sorry for the inconvenience, and I assure you I am an honest person who keeps my word.
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:45 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
Thank you for emailing me. I was terribly worried that something had happened to my babies. I had tears in my eyes packing my babies last night. I'm really glad that you are happy with them. I really do hope your baby is better. I truly know how that can be with 5 of my own. All I ask is that you let me know any info that you have on them for my records and if you think one is possibly gravid if you could mark those I would greatly appreciate it as I have a few males I was thinking of breeding if she(s) is still willing. Just email me a tracking number when you ship so I can be home to receive them. Again thank you for taking the time to email me. I can rest much easier tonight knowing that they're okay.
Take care of the little one & We'll talk soon.
Thank you,
Jane Whited
Mickey's Nightmare
423-504-2868
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:08 AM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
hi jane, the boas are all doing well, turns out 3 of the 5 females are actually males....I probed all of them last night
I immediately called John to try to work out a remedy. I had not learned to probe yet & took their gender from who I bought them from. This was a hard lesson. I took his word for the sexes since he told me that he had dealt with snakes on & off for several years & ran a pet store. He was still making excuses why he couldn't ship mine but I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt. We reduced the number of females that I would get from 9 to 6. I felt like I had made it right.
John called on March 24th telling me he was shipping on the 27th. He was complaining of Alexa's feeding. I offered to take her back but he was unwilling to ship her unless I sent him the money to. I refused to send him any money until I received my shipment. I told him to send her COD or that when I got my shipment I would send him the shipping for her if I got what I was suppose to get in return. This was unacceptable to him. I felt like there was nothing else I could offer.
I didn't hear anything else so I sent the email below.
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 1:48 AM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Boas for Balls Trade
John,
I shipped on March 6, you were supposed to ship the same day, but did not ship.
You were then supposed to ship on March 20, but you did not ship.
Per your call on March 24, you were to ship and send a tracking number by March 27, but again you did not ship.
Any females that I recieved from you in a breedable condition were to be part of a breeding loan with a mojave or pastel, an opportunity that is now past.
Per our telephone discussion on March 13, You expressed concern over the mis-sexing of Dots, Hearts & Alexa. It was my understanding that these issues were resolved by reducing the ball pythons from 9 breedable females to 6 breedable females.
Per our telephone discussion on March 24, You expressed concern over Alexa's feeding. These issues were disclosed and discussed prior to the trade, so no adjustment to the trade was made.
Today is April 1, I have lost breeding opportunities, have not recieved any return shipment, or correspondence since March 24.
Friday, April 7, I will visit the courthouse here in Chattanooga to seek resolution of this matter unless I recieve either;
1) 6 healthy breedable female ball pythons properly packed & shipped prepaid with tracking number or
2) Emily, Dots, Rosie, Hearts, & Alexa returned in healthy condition properly packed & shipped prepaid with tracking number or
3) Dots, Hearts, Alexa, and 4 breedable female ball pythons in healthy condition properly packed and shipped prepaid with tracking number.
I am not angry, but it is far past time for this trade to be concluded. If there are extenuating circumstances on your end, I am not aware because of lack of communication from you.
Thank you,
Ray & Jane Whited
Mickey's Nightmare
423-504-2868
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:04 AM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Boas For Balls Trade
I am very sorry about the way this trade has gone,...I arrive back in from illinois last night, I had a nephew there who died in the hospital, from complications of pneumonia, he was only 7 years old...Devastated the whole family...I know that is not your problem, and i understand your frustration, I am scheduling a pickup for tomorrow
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 6:56 PM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
dhl tracking number 15615587455 6 adult female ball pythons, per our agreement. will be shipped out on wednesday, and received on thursday by 3:00 pm
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 8:20 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
I had no intention of making you angry or upset with my last email. I'm truly sorry for your loss. If you had just stayed in contact with me it would have never came to that. I wanted to believe you when you told each ship date but when they all came & went with no explanation, I felt that must do something.
Please tell me that DHL has the 6lb weight wrong on the breedable females. There is no way that the box, packing, heat packs & 6 breedable females would weigh only 6 lbs. The converison is 6 lb=2721.55 g. The acceptable size for one breedable female in this industry is 1500g. This puts the females at only 453.59g each at best without packing & heat packs which is far from breedable even next year. Our trade deal was for 6 breedable not barley yearlings at best. Also, it would have been respectful to at least put my name or screen name on the package. If these are not breedable females at least 1500g this is fraud.
If you were not going to hold your end of the deal, why didn't you send me back my boas C.O.D.? I would have gladly paid the C.O.D. amount instead of this.
Thank you,
Jane Whited
423-504-2868
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 8:59 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Emily, Hearts, Rosie & Dots
John,
You are more than welcome to save all of their pics including parents & pages since I cannot email them as easily or burn them at this time. Let me know when you are finished so that I can pull their pages & add them to the traded page. I've attached their note pad files for you with additional info. I'll Mark each bag so you'll know who's who. If yours have names mark them for me as well. If not I guess I have a lot of naming to do, lol.
Thank again,
Jane Whited
Mickey's Nightmare
423-504-2868
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:15 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
I was just wondering how Emily, Dots, Hearts, Rosie & Alexa are doing. I hope the little one is well. I have a very busy week coming up so please let me know before you ship so I can make sure I'm going to be home.
Thanks again,
Jane
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:16 AM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
https://home.comcast.net/~mickeysnightmare
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:04 AM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Boas For Balls Trade
I am very sorry about the way this trade has gone,...I arrive back in from illinois last night, I had a nephew there who died in the hospital, from complications of pneumonia, he was only 7 years old...Devastated the whole family...I know that is not your problem, and i understand your frustration, I am scheduling a pickup for tomorrow
From: john and tessa nessinger
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:08 AM
To: Mickeysnightmare
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
I guessed on the weight, I dont have a scale,...what is this with you and calling me a fraud..I was guaranteed all female boas, I didnt get that...so I compromised, I was told that Alex would eat guinea pigs or small rabbits, I have now wasted,75 dollars on guinnea pigs and rabbits just to see them in the garbage, and to have a snake who refuses to eat.., and gets thinner on a weekly basis .Who do you think came out better on this deal? I think its safe to say that we will not be doing business again, Im sure you will be sending out negative feedback on me , and I will do the same...unfortunate as it is, sometimes deals go bad///all of the snakes i received from you are now sold to various customers, except for the one which will not eat, im stuck with that one, I know a guy who will take her and try to get her eating, but i have to give him the snake
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:08 PM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
When you sent me the tracking number, you said you were sending ADULT females. These are NOT adult females. You told me that they were eating large rats. Most of them are smaller than a large rat!! Their weights are as follows 575.7g, 489.6g, 422.5g, 444.1g, 725.2g & 487.34g. I have several 2005's in the four hundred range. These won't be breedable for at least 2 years that's if they eat well. If you were not happy with the boas I sent you, you should have said so instead of telling me you were happy. When 3 probed male you should have said I don't want those instead of offering me less breedable females. Which we agreed upon. Instead I have gotten no breedable females and you say that you have already sold my boas after you told me you needed them for breeding. For the 2 that probed female where are my 4 breedable females as we agreed? For the other 3 where are my 2 breedable femals? You also told me that I would receive a female who was blind due to an injury that laid a clutch last year, where is she? Who in this business sends animals with one heat pack for afternoon delivery? I don't know of any. I properly packed the boas for morning delivery to ensure their safe arrival. If you don't want Alex send him back to me COD. He does eat XS Rodentpro Rabbits or LG Guinea Pigs off the cage bottom for me.Their is no reason for him to die. I did not get my money's worth & I'm not happy. I've wasted more money as I have ordered 80 large rats for $119.20 with no one to eat them. The deal must not have been too bad for you since you sold all of the boas before completing our deal. It's amazing you have time to sell the boas but not time to email me, call me or send me what you promised. I guess you sold the breedable females too. We are not finished.
Thank you,
Jane Whited
From: Mickeysnightmare
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 9:46 AM
To: john and tessa nessinger
Subject: Re: Your Ad 234011 (3 Boas for Sale or Trade 4 Female Ball Pythons)
John,
I carefully checked each snake yesterday after they had time to warm up. I have pictures to document my findings. I'm highly disappointed that you would send out snakes in their condition without disclosing it to anyone let alone for the trade value involved. You told me I would get 6 healthy breedable female ball pythons and I clearly have not. They all have many scars.
#1 Has several wounds that are infected, scales peeling from her back.
#2 Has an infected bump on her head, with several sores down back.
3# Has several wounds on her back that are infected as well as stuck shed from her neck down to her tail that will have to be removed to prevent dehydration.
4# Has several infected wounds on her head.
5 of their backbones are clearly visible.
I treated them until I could get them to a qualified reptile veterinarian.
What is the history on these 6 snakes?
If you had needed someone to take these in this condition, I would have but not for the trade value involved and without the condition being disclosed fully up front. These obviously aren't worth much in the retail trade in this condition. I guess that's why you sent them to me otherwise you would have sold them just like the boas I sent you.
This has gone far beyond the scope of not receiving breedable females.
These snakes are going to require a lot of extra care which is time and money intensive to get them healthy but in the end all be worth a lot less due to the scarring in this trade.
What do you intend to do on making this situation right?
I will seek further resolution of this matter if you don't promptly respond with a reasonable solution as I will be out more money with vet bills tomorrow.
Thank you,
Jane Whited
I took them to the vet paid $50 to find out that 1 was male, Wild Caught most likely & needed more treatment. I treated them but unfortunately 4 died & they would only eat ASF which were difficult to find & expensive.I only have 1 left today she hasn't bred yet & may this year if I'm lucky. I treid last season but no luck. She was only 1400g then. She is listed as Carissa on my site. I adopted the male to someone I thought had a chance with him.
I never heard from him again until he contacted me in 07 in a different state & different name. I didn't connect the 2 until he moved out from his wife, Tessa. She found a notebook of his with names & phone numbers from past snake deals & called me. We got to talking about the deal in 06 which she knew nothing about even though he had said she was shipping for him until I sent her all the emails I just posted. She was floored as the excuses he used were completly false. I will post that deal up as soon as I get them from my archive & sorted out.
