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GENETICS QUESTION

Tiger Lilly

Tiger Lilly

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I just read this on a classified, and it has made me quite curious:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148036

Post #1:
"Also we have our Male 100% het for albino. I do not have papers for him but when you see the pictures of him and belly there is no doubt he is a het. We purchased him a little over 5 months ago with big plans for him. He was bought from a respectable breeder at our reptile show. He was from a Visual x Visual clutch."

Post #11:
"Recessive's don't have a reliable het marker. But when a visual is bred, "some" normal babies come out with a pretty well noticed marker(which you know is a het because it was bred by a visual, Which is his case.). I only have him up here to try if he sells he sells if not he can still be kept as a breeder for next year. I am more interested in selling the "Stonewashed" Mojave and both Cinnamons! The pastel male is also just thrown in but if he isn't sold we will keep him to breed."

First, I'm curious as to where this info came from?
(I am pm'ing the OP of that thread to let him know about this one)

Second, someone else posted within that thread about the punnit square, which shows the outcome of the (both albino) homo x homo = all visuals - no hets. The punnit square is the tried & true scientific method of figuring out the breeding outcomes, correct?

And last, what exactly are the markers being shown in the photos on the ad?
Is it the almost solid stripes running alongside the belly of the snake?

If the OP has posted correct info regarding his 100% het from an albino x albino breeding, how long has this info been known to be true & how did I miss it?
 
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First off, an albino X albino breeding cannot produce hets, all offspring will be albinos. Each parent will contribute one gene to the babies and if both parents are homozygous then they have nothing but the albino gene to contribute.

Just to clarify, because someone will probably nit pick that statement and correct me on a technicality, as long as both visual parents are homozygous for the same albino gene all offspring will be visual albinos. If there are two non compatible albino genes involved in the breeding then it's a different story.

Overall his ad seems legitimate to me, although I don't know what to make of someone with that number of morphs not knowing something so basic as how a recessive gene is inherited.

As for the markers, he is talking about the stripes on the belly, however that has never been associated with the albino trait. It's a debatable topic, but it's always concerning the piebald mutation.
 
Not to muddy the waters, but a BP keeper I know seems to think there IS an albino marker. She hasn't revealed what it is to me, though...just said that the possible hets she has picked out via that method have all proven out. I'll have to see if I can get her to open up about it.
 
I'd like to hear what her opinion is. At this point, I don't think it's a secret worth keeping, with 100% hets being dirt cheap anyway.

Not to completely side track the thread, but I have always had an issue with the idea of markers in general. Using the better known pied example, my opinion is sure some of the hets do display the markers. However some non hets also have the same markings and many proven hets do not have them. That's just not much of a marker to me. At best it's a feel good measure when picking through a clutch of possibles.
For something to be a true marker to me it would have to be present on all hets and not seen on non hets. In fact if that actually existed the morph would no longer be simple recessive at all, it would become a co-dom to use the common terminology. The visual form would actually be a super, just as pastels are really just het super pastels and yellow bellies are het ivory etc.
 
THANKS

hhmoore said:
Not to muddy the waters, but a BP keeper I know seems to think there IS an albino marker. She hasn't revealed what it is to me, though...just said that the possible hets she has picked out via that method have all proven out. I'll have to see if I can get her to open up about it.
Click to expand...

Well, Harald, I hope you can...that is very interesting to me.
I'll be the first to admit that I am not 'genetically inclined,' but I like to think I have something of a grasp of it.

Also, let me state that I am in no way questioning the legitimacy of the ad. I just wanted to be sure that I was understanding the whole homo x homo deal.

Clay--being that I am not well-versed, genetically speaking, can you expound on the 'non-compatible albino genes' deal?
(Things like this are why I can't get my head wrapped around genetics...)

Thank you both for chiming in! I do wish the OP of the ad would...
 
An example of non compatible albino genes is the Sharp and Kahl strains of albino boas. These two forms of albinism do not combine as they are apparently caused by a defect at different loci.

If you breed a sharp strain albino to a kahl albino you will get an entirely normal clutch which are all 100% het for both strains. That is of course assuming that neither parent was het for the other strain.

To my knowledge there is not a comparable genetic situation in ball pythons. Things like the albino, lavander albino, and caramel albino, are not different strains of a single type of albinism, they are different forms of the mutation completely.
 
I think I'm getting it

...or am I?
So, for example, if someone got a freshly wc albino ball (oh say, straight from Cameroon :ack2:), would that possibly be a different strain, or definitely a different strain?
 
It could possibly be a different strain but in reality it probably wouldn't be.
The only way to know for sure however would be to breed it to another albino from an already established line and see if all the offspring were albinos or not.

Non compatible strains of the same mutation are a rarity really.

Actually in hindsight I believe I should correct my earlier statement. The different lines of axanthics are incompatible in balls. I had forgotten about them.
I've never worked with axanthics, but as I understand it if you breed a Joliff axanthic to a VPI axanthic you get double het offspring instead of getting axanthics.

However most commonly you get different "lines" of a mutation instead of different "strains". An example being the clown gene. You have the BHB and VPI lines, but if you breed them together you still produce clowns. They are only different lines because each of the respective originators of the two lines had their own imported founder animal. They remain the same gene caused by a defect, if you will, at the same loci.
 
Thanks again, Clay.
(Think 'Vinnie Barbarino' for a second here) "I'm so confused...!"
If you have to ask who Vinnie is--please don't (google is a wonderful thing!).
THIS is why I keep lots & LOTS of notes on genetics AND bookmark some of the best pages. Genetics make my head explode.
 
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