About the BOI and it's future here...

[Magic Merlin]

Rich, I have not read this entire thread but it is apparent to me that you no longer have the energy or desire to be responsible for this site......please sell it to someone or a group of people that will make positive steps forward to unify and strengthen our hobby. Thank you for you services over the years and enjoy your retirement.

 

[AF Exotics]

Tony C,if I'm not mistaken,you are a contributor,by choice .You paid your contribution in the hopes of helping to save this site .So did I .I did not purchase a service and there is no contract beyond my contributing to site in the hopes of keeping it running .I didn't purchase an indentured servant whom I can browbeat when I feel like it .

If Rich should use some personal funds for himself,so be it ,as I never hear anyone jamming him up for his own time and resources spent thus far .I hope you did it (contributing) with the right motives .If not,maybe your actions and attitude are self expalanatory then .You came here to cause grief .Your choice,Merry Christmas .

 

[AF Exotics]

One other thing,Tony,you do have a right to question if you feel something is wrong .I agree,it is something you will always have in this country,but demanding and then accusing will usually make 99 % of most people blow you off,even the honest ones .I do hope you stay and make your presence here count .

 

[Tony C]

I was blown off several times before I leveled any accusations. I do not expect Rich to be my indentured servant, I simply wanted a straight answer to my question of whether or not our contributions are truly being used to fund the BOI. I contributed under the impression that the purpose was to fund the BOI, not to give Rich money to play with in hopes that it would make him feel good and keep the BOI open out of the kindness of his heart.

 

[AF Exotics]

Well,I'm right there with you .I hope it's being used to fund the BOI,but I ,unlike you have used this site for years,and have gotten my money's worth tenfold .That is somewhere we differ and I hope you get your money's worth too .If I remeber correctly there were still 150-200 members needed .Maybe we can get some idea on that figure .Hopefully this all works out .

 

[sincitydragons]

suspicious minds...

I was blown off several times before I leveled any accusations. I do not expect Rich to be my indentured servant, I simply wanted a straight answer to my question of whether or not our contributions are truly being used to fund the BOI. I contributed under the impression that the purpose was to fund the BOI, not to give Rich money to play with in hopes that it would make him feel good and keep the BOI open out of the kindness of his heart.

Thus far I have yet to see any evidence that Rich did any thing with the money contributed other than what he said he would which was try to keep the BOI open. What it seems to me that some of you are forgetting, and Rich has already stated, is that there are more cost to running the site than simply hypothetical lawsuits. He has employees that help with the site who require to be paid, he has fees for servers, and I'm sure numerous other running cost. Without making enough money to cover those cost from the contributions where do you think that money comes from.... thats right his pocket. Would any of you like to foot the bill, especially if you were trying to retire? You, Tony, are implying that maybe he did something dishonest with the money and as far as I can tell have no evidence to support that. What Rich does or doesn't do with his own money is absolutely nobodys business but his own.

 

[WebSlave]

I was blown off several times before I leveled any accusations. I do not expect Rich to be my indentured servant, I simply wanted a straight answer to my question of whether or not our contributions are truly being used to fund the BOI. I contributed under the impression that the purpose was to fund the BOI, not to give Rich money to play with in hopes that it would make him feel good and keep the BOI open out of the kindness of his heart.

So I blew you off by merely suggesting that your time and efforts to read this thread might be productive for you to obtain your answers? The reasons WHY this is all taking place are plainly spelled out here. Sorry, but if you are just too lazy to make that effort, then I am just not inclined to spoon feed you the info you want.

 

[kevk]

rich,
I don't post much here,but I read alot.I read the BOI because it's interesting,and browse some of the other forums.When i read about you closing down the BOI due to lack of paid memberships,I called a friend of mine who has a large fishing forum(around 35,000 members).
I asked him about the cost of his site,traffic,and how he does monetarily from it.He said he makes a pretty substantial amount a month from banner ads and business-type paid sponsors.He said he wouldn't think of instituting paid memberships because it would kill his site.
I can't help but think why he's making good money running a 35,000 member site,and you're not, running a site with double the traffic?
I have no ulterior motive here,and I only buy animals in person.I think the BOI is a great tool for others,and you did a great thing by creating it.You just have me curious whether it's really a money issue or you just don't want to deal with the BS anymore.
congrats on your retirement and thanks for the site.

 

[WebSlave]

rich,
I don't post much here,but I read alot.I read the BOI because it's interesting,and browse some of the other forums.When i read about you closing down the BOI due to lack of paid memberships,I called a friend of mine who has a large fishing forum(around 35,000 members).
I asked him about the cost of his site,traffic,and how he does monetarily from it.He said he makes a pretty substantial amount a month from banner ads and business-type paid sponsors.He said he wouldn't think of instituting paid memberships because it would kill his site.
I can't help but think why he's making good money running a 35,000 member site,and you're not, running a site with double the traffic?
I have no ulterior motive here,and I only buy animals in person.I think the BOI is a great tool for others,and you did a great thing by creating it.You just have me curious whether it's really a money issue or you just don't want to deal with the BS anymore.
congrats on your retirement and thanks for the site.

This might simply be an apples or oranges thing. Did you happen to read where I stated that my major concern was because the financial risk the BOI exposes me to? That my allowing people to post controversial topics exposes me to the potential of a lawsuit and THAT is my major concern? Has anyone priced what a protracted legal battle costs these days? Would YOU want to have to foot the bills for something like that by allowing people to use YOUR site for something like the BOI?

Does your friend have a similar forum on his site and exposed to the same risk? Yes, I know I would probably win such a lawsuit, but how far would the money this site earns take me if it was being spent fighting a drawn out legal battle?

It may also be that he just simply has more people willing to run banner ads then I have here. It has been plainly noted before that nearly all the big names in this business are pointedly avoiding this site. Maybe he doesn't have that sort of problem with his own site.

Hope that makes sense. I'm just getting really weary of this whole thing now. I may just shut down the BOI over the weekend since I'll be away anyway, and see how it feels to even have it temporarily off of my back. I'll think about this over a bowl of popcorn....

 

[polasian]

You have time to put all that together, but not time to say "Yes, I did intend to save the BOI, but the contributions I have received are insufficient." or "No, I did not intend to save the BOI and have used the contributions for other purposes." Give me a break.

The following quotes are from posts 36, 37 and 39 of this 300+ post thread.

That could very well be true. And if so, then I'm ok with that happening. I've done all I can, and want, to do with it. The ball is in everyone else's court now and it's the losing point at stake. Personally, I feel pretty confident that FaunaClassifieds can survive without the BOI any longer. Traffic will take a hit, but it's survived those before for one reason or another.

We're getting a new or renewed paid membership every day or two now. Extrapolating the likely results come January first, I seriously doubt we will hit the target membership (at least 600). I may very well lock down the BOI to paid members sooner rather than later. Just haven't had time to put much thought into it because of higher priorities right now. I'm sure it's GOING to happen, I just need to figure out HOW to best do it to cause the least amount of hate mail. I am certainly not looking forward to the inevitable emails from people who lose access and just think they got banned or something is broken here. Most people just don't take the time to search for and read notices around here... Maybe I'll just do it before Expo, since I don't read emails when I am away anyway...

My question is your asking for more members to contribute if they do and on Jan 1st you close down sections or limit use because it wasn't enough people. Will there be any reimbursement for those people that tried to help but no longer wish to be with the site as it has changed? What kind of promise/guarantee can you offer the new members that join up between now and then and what kind of reassurance are you offering to the people who are already members?? Just trying to make my decision on what I want to do.....

Sorry, but the only guarantee I am offering is that if the membership does not want to financially support the BOI based on the concerns I have already aired, then I GUARANTEE that it will not be here much longer.

If anyone feels this is unfair, that I have not done enough as it is to support the BOI with my own headaches and out of my own pocket for years, before this site even had the capability of accepting contributions, regardless of the fact that I have faced down MANY threats of lawsuits because of what someone else has posted on this site, well I am OK with that. I can certainly live without those headaches and those threats in my life. At this point, I have more to gain then I have to lose with the BOI going away if that financial support isn't forthcoming.

So is this site making money now? Yes it is. Is it enough to pay for a SERIOUS lawsuit? Hardly..... And I have NO intention of allowing what someone else wants to say on this site drag me into court to drain my retirement savings. I've seen others taking swipes at me (yet again) saying that I should run this site strictly AT COST, meaning I guess server and hosting costs. I'm sure that when they apply for a job somewhere, they figure out their costs to drive to and from work and those few expenses associated with actually DOING the job and ask for that amount of compensation only from their prospective employer..... I sure wish I lived in the world that those people live in.... Even completely disregarding the potential expense of a lawsuit, really, just how much are your efforts and time worth?

Anyway, sorry if this is a repeat to some people, but apparently it is necessary for some others.

Tony...you joined this site on 10-25-2009. The above exchange, which I think answers your question, happened 3 MONTHS BEFORE you joined, let alone contributed. So you knew FULL WELL, or SHOULD have known, that this "save the BOI" campaign...was just that...a campaign. It was, and still is, an effort to preserve the BOI. Rich made NO guarantees that the BOI will be around. To the contrary, the only guarantee he made was that the BOI WILL be shut down IF...and right now, we're at crossroads of "IF."

However...I don't think that answer to your question is good enough. At this point it seems as if your arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm half expecting you to say..."Never mind that, I want to hear it from Rich." . You've seen threads in the BOI and have contributed to them......how many times has there been someone who wanders into a 300+ post thread, asking something that has already been answered, MULTIPLE times??? What reaction are they met with??? "...you might want to go back 20 pages...the answer has already been given..." Tony...right now, YOUR THAT GUY.

I understand that your frustrated...EVERYONE is frustrated. There are people who just don't "get it" or don't care that the BOI could go Bye Bye (hey, that's a catchy slogan ) So its up to us, the people who do "get it" and do care, to pick up the slack. You did your part by donating $25 for this cause...and the community loves you for it. Can you honestly tell me that if the BOI goes down because others were not as responsible as you, that you'll loose sleep over making an effort to help keep the BOI alive? Regardless of what happens, pat yourself on the back and move on...you tried, as well as MANY others...and we are STILL trying. There are auctions running on the "contributions and stuff" thread (shameless plug, I know ). On Mon, there will be yet another auction/raffle set up on that thread.

We are days away from Rich making a decision...yet people are STILL trying to keep the BOI around, even thought it SEEMS hopeless. But, in reality, its FAR from hopeless...because there are some of us who still HAVE hope......hey, stranger things have happened . Who knows, maybe if the next week brings in a good amount of donations, perhaps Rich might want to consider delaying his decision? I know that the potential demise of the BOI has been voiced for months, if not years...but its human nature to procrastinate. I think now, many people are FINALLY realizing that its all-or-nothing, so they just might make the extra effort

Tony...lets hope for the best, and thank you for donating to the BOI.

Disclaimer...I am in NO WAY criticizing the people who don't have the funds to donate...I know times are tough...so none of my "frustrations" are directed at you.

 

[R. Eventide]

If I were at a desk, I would be unconscious from banging my head against the desk so many times.

If you won't take the effort to read the entire thread to see what's going on, then no one else should take the effort to explain it all to you. Again. And again.

Rich, I don't know how you've managed it this far. Seriously. I would've pulled all my hair out and jumped off a bridge long ago.... People take take take and want want want, but if they have to expend any effort themselves...whooeee, you can hear the crying and whining on the other side of the world!

You're screwed if you keep the BOI and screwed if you shut it down...except one option is less stress for you. I would be extremely sad to see the BOI go away, as it's saved me multiple times and quite a bit of money; it is a fantastic resource and gives the scammers something to worry about. I mean, look at the McKyle thread; the kid purposely went out and grabbed a hacked PayPal account just to see if he could scam people for money; he was all smug until people starting talking about taking it to the police. I have a feeling he's scared as all get out right now, and none of this would have been possible without the BOI. But quite frankly, your sanity and happiness is worth far more than any amount of money.

(The optimist side of me says to keep the BOI for the good and decent people who don't whine about everything and ignore everyone else and their ridiculous comments.... But hey, interacting with people has made me way too cynical for this. But I guess it's something to keep in mind.)

 

[WebSlave]

Well, I'm going to visit my mom, so I have a long ride to think about this. Probably by Monday I will have made up my mind about what to do.

Hope everyone has a merry Christmas today.

 

[Lucille]

Well, I'm going to visit my mom, so I have a long ride to think about this. Probably by Monday I will have made up my mind about what to do.

Hope everyone has a merry Christmas today.

I hope you have a good visit that is nourishing and restful. I think the BOI has been a wonderful site for many people for many years, and has helped to make this hobby (and living, for some) better and safer.

Some do not appreciate what you have done. It seems to me that one thing I've learned over the years is that people are difficult to change. If they are critical, ungrateful, and drama llamas, courteous and common sense answers will not suddenly morph them into rational, polite human beings.

Whatever you decide, I respect what you have done and I know that feeling is echoed by many.

Go have some turkey and mashed taters and pie and enjoy your holiday

 

[deborahbroadus]

I hope you have a good visit that is nourishing and restful. I think the BOI has been a wonderful site for many people for many years, and has helped to make this hobby (and living, for some) better and safer.

Some do not appreciate what you have done. It seems to me that one thing I've learned over the years is that people are difficult to change. If they are critical, ungrateful, and drama llamas, courteous and common sense answers will not suddenly morph them into rational, polite human beings.

Whatever you decide, I respect what you have done and I know that feeling is echoed by many.

Go have some turkey and mashed taters and pie and enjoy your holiday

Your life, your decision.

 

[Tim Cole]

I know I would hate to see the BOI go away.

It been the MOST useful internet tool when I am conducting a sale with persons I do not know. It has saved me from potentially bad deals.

But on the more positive side, it does boast of good sales and good people. It's not all negative.

I also have been humored by a lot of BOI threads and posts made by members here.

To support this site, I do more advertising here than anywhere else.

I applaud Rich and his #%*@ to make this forum available. I have made a lot of contacts and friends because of this forum.

If you were to ask me, I'd say my $100 membership per year is money well spent and saved because of the BOI.

Merry Christmas Rich and may you rest easy with your decision.

 

[sincitydragons]

amen

I hope you have a good visit that is nourishing and restful. I think the BOI has been a wonderful site for many people for many years, and has helped to make this hobby (and living, for some) better and safer.

Some do not appreciate what you have done. It seems to me that one thing I've learned over the years is that people are difficult to change. If they are critical, ungrateful, and drama llamas, courteous and common sense answers will not suddenly morph them into rational, polite human beings.

Whatever you decide, I respect what you have done and I know that feeling is echoed by many.

Go have some turkey and mashed taters and pie and enjoy your holiday

amen to that, Best holiday wishes to you and all of yours.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I know I would hate to see the BOI go away.

It been the MOST useful internet tool when I am conducting a sale with persons I do not know. It has saved me from potentially bad deals.

But on the more positive side, it does boast of good sales and good people. It's not all negative.

I also have been humored by a lot of BOI threads and posts made by members here.

To support this site, I do more advertising here than anywhere else.

I applaud Rich and his #%*@ to make this forum available. I have made a lot of contacts and friends because of this forum.

If you were to ask me, I'd say my $100 membership per year is money well spent and saved because of the BOI.

Merry Christmas Rich and may you rest easy with your decision.

Ditto and Merry Christmas to you all!

I have had the pleasure of meeting many of the members here over the years that I now call friends. I hope that there will be many more years to come. Hope that all of you have a wonderful day with family and friends.

 

[cat snake]

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!

 

[dragonlvr64]

It would be awful for the reptile industry to lose this resource.

I of course fully understand all the stress,headache and financial responsibility that goes along with it but would be very upset to see it closed down. I would be very worried to purchase from an unknown person if I could not look them up first on the BOI. This will hurt all but the biggest/largest breeders whose name speaks for itself. Heck even some of the large breeders have issues we need to be aware of. The BOI has made us aware!

Whether you come here for research, the soap opera aspect or to buy or sell, we need to have the BOI!

Will hope for the best.
Happy Holidays all!

 

[JG1153]

I see people getting after Rich now that it’s crunch time. I don’t know the man but I do know he gave everyone a fair (several months) chance to step up and show him the BOI was important enough to them to keep it as it is and it’s pretty obvious people just didn’t care enough.

I just renewed my membership 3 months early even though I know the BOI is probably going to be shut down or go over to pay-to-play simply because I think the amount of information contained here is going to be useful at least for the coming year and if the BOI ends up getting shut down, well I've made worst investments before and $25 really isn't going to break me. So am I wasting my money by renewing my membership and early at that? I don’t think so because even if the forum withers away chances are all the old threads that are still here are going to help to at least avoid some of the scammers out there and that’s worth a hell of a lot more than the measly $25 I paid.

I understand people are frustrated with what is about to happen especially if you tried your best to help out but at the same time I don’t see how being shitty to the site’s owner and the person who’s making the decision especially during this time, and during the holidays at that, is going to help your cause. Ultimately I don’t see how causing even more problems during this time is going to somehow persuade him to keep the BOI open. I would think it's going to have the exact opposite effect your hoping to get. Just a thought and my humble opinion but perhaps something certain people (Tony C) should keep in mind because ultimately you’re just making things worse.