WTH Rich!

[xanaxez]

How about you PROVE that statement fella. I would like to remind you that falsely accusing someone of doing an illegal act is libel. I searched diligently to find such a law and was unable to do so. So you are apparently stating in public that you know of such a law and I have broken it. So it should be a simple matter for you to show me this law.

As for Lucille being banned in the past, the only instance I can recall where that happened was when she inappropriately deleted and edited some messages in a forum she was moderator of.

But facts and reality really aren't your strong point now are they?

Back peddling? Sure, whatever. Read the above statement again, please...

Go back to around thread number 14 Rich. the one you seemed too have dodged the proof and letter someone posted that it was illegal. the proof was shown, i'm stating what i seen. call your lawyer and ask him if i did anything wrong.

as for lucille, you just called someone a liar and soforth for saying you were, now look. no mam you're the lair lucille.

 

[Lucille]

As for Lucille being banned in the past, the only instance I can recall where that happened was when she inappropriately deleted and edited some messages in a forum she was moderator of.

.

I was banned by Doc one time when I made a comment that some other readers took the wrong way. I own up to what I've done, wish I had not, loved being mod of the lh forum. But have NEVER been banned for badmouthing Rich or any of the mods.

I don't make it a big deal because I'm pretty easy going, but most of y'all know that I could probably do something about any particularly irksome libel coming my way if I chose to do so.

 

[Lucille]

no mam you're the lair lucille.

I was accused of being banned for badmouthing Rich. That never happened. I'm getting a bit irritated.......

 

[WebSlave]

Go back to around thread number 14 Rich. the one you seemed too have dodged the proof and letter someone posted that it was illegal. the proof was shown, i'm stating what i seen. call your lawyer and ask him if i did anything wrong.

as for lucille, you just called someone a liar and soforth for saying you were, now look. no mam you're the lair lucille.

Do you mean POST #14 in this thread? Well here that is:

Maybe he could help this person out.... http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159890

Yeah, that sure proves a lot..........

As for Lucille, I believe she is claiming that persons stating that she was banned for badmouthing ME are lying. I do not recall that, and honestly, I would think I would remember such a thing. So unless you have facts to support your accusations, then yes, perhaps her claims that you are a liar are in fact well founded.

Seems to me you are jus a tad bit "fact-challenged" here, bub.

 

[xanaxez]

I was banned by Doc one time when I made a comment that some other readers took the wrong way. I own up to what I've done, wish I had not, loved being mod of the lh forum. But have NEVER been banned for badmouthing Rich or any of the mods.

I don't make it a big deal because I'm pretty easy going, but most of y'all know that I could probably do something about any particularly irksome libel coming my way if I chose to do so.

your story of it still doesnt match rich's... which was it? was you banned for making remarks in a post or was you banned for altering threads and such as a mod? still 2 different stories here.

 

[xanaxez]

Do you mean POST #14 in this thread? Well here that is:



Yeah, that sure proves a lot..........

As for Lucille, I believe she is claiming that persons stating that she was banned for badmouthing ME are lying. I do not recall that, and honestly, I would think I would remember such a thing. So unless you have facts to support your accusations, then yes, perhaps her claims that you are a liar are in fact well founded.

Seems to me you are jus a tad bit "fact-challenged" here, bub.

seems too me your stories doesnt ad up together. you have one version, she has another... who needs facts when you're both telling different versions of why? it seems like a cover up job for a friend too me.

 

[xanaxez]

Do you mean POST #14 in this thread? Well here that is:



Yeah, that sure proves a lot..........

As for Lucille, I believe she is claiming that persons stating that she was banned for badmouthing ME are lying. I do not recall that, and honestly, I would think I would remember such a thing. So unless you have facts to support your accusations, then yes, perhaps her claims that you are a liar are in fact well founded.

Seems to me you are jus a tad bit "fact-challenged" here, bub.

ill find it for your rich =)

 

[Lucille]

your story of it still doesnt match rich's... which was it? was you banned for making remarks in a post or was you banned for altering threads and such as a mod? still 2 different stories here.

You need to chill Bo. These were two different incidents, but I never was banned for badmouthing Rich.

 

[xanaxez]

Do you mean POST #14 in this thread? Well here that is:



Yeah, that sure proves a lot..........

As for Lucille, I believe she is claiming that persons stating that she was banned for badmouthing ME are lying. I do not recall that, and honestly, I would think I would remember such a thing. So unless you have facts to support your accusations, then yes, perhaps her claims that you are a liar are in fact well founded.

Seems to me you are jus a tad bit "fact-challenged" here, bub.

Rich, I had pointed out to you the emails I recieved from the FWC that the release of captive bred corn snake morphs was illegal, although, you have this convenient arrogance that you are above the state regulations.
Quote:
Thank you for contacting the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The response to your concerns appears below.

You may follow the link below to login and check the status of your account.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.


Click here to visit the Ask FWC Web site.


Subject
releasing captive bred corn snakes

Discussion Thread
Response (LE-JW) 12/11/2009 09:43 AM
As noted in your question below, the sub-species of corn snake is the issue. The statute that covers release is 379.231. The Florida Administrative Code sections would be 68-5.001. 68A-4.001 & 4.005.
Customer (Pete Kirkwood) 12/10/2009 08:45 PM
Could you please state the specific law regarding the unlawful release of any widlife in the state of Florida?

Regards,
Pete Kirkwood
Response (LE-JW) 12/10/2009 12:25 PM
It is unlawful to release any wildlife into the state without a permit from the Commission. If this is in reference to recent postings on an Internet reptile forum, we are aware of this and are investigating. If you have information that is different or may assist in the investigation please relay the information to the nearest FWC Regional Office, Division of Law Enforcement, http://myfwc.com/About/About_OrgStructure.htm.
Customer (Pete Kirkwood) 12/10/2009 02:01 AM
Is it legal in the State of Florida to release captive bred corn snakes, including genetic morphs into the wild?

I am very interested to know this.

I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,
Pete Kirkwood

[---001:

 

[critical bill]

Not that its important but who is Pete Kirkwood? Is that you Bo? Is your name really Bo or is it Pete? Are lying to them about your real name or are you lying to us about your real name? Why lie anyway, what is there to hide from? Are you keeping anything illegal in Ohio that you have concerns to make an inquiry under a false ID?

 

[hhmoore]

I've tried to stay out of this, but things are getting further out of hand than I anticipated (not really - I kind of had a feeling it would build steam - I just wanted to stay out of it). The Sound Off forum is not the place for personal attacks, or "calling somebody out"...but there really isn't a place for such things, unless it is a BOI matter (and, even there, there are limitations on the personal stuff).

Not that it matters in this thread, but Lucille was banned once...by Doc Jay. The only reason I mention it is for clarification - I don't believe that it had anything to do with badmouthing Rich, as xanaxex claims, though. I could be wrong, but I want to say that it was for some reference to KelliH...it was before the current infraction system, during the WS mod period. (Also, I could also be wrong about this...but I don't think you banned her for those post deletions, Rich - they were her own posts. I think you just removed her as a forum moderator)

As far as "the law" that makes it illegal to release ANY captive animals into the wild, well, isn't that pretty new (if it has even passed, and gone into effect)?? Should Rich be subject to punishment when it wasn't a law at the time of his actions?

Regardless of how one feels about the fact that he released a quantity of baby corn snakes, on his own property, over the years, there are ways to have the discussion that don't involved the nastiness that developed here. Rich has been surprisingly open to criticisms over the years...but there are clearly limits to his tolerance. Some people make the mistake of ignoring the warnings and pressing on with their attacks...interestingly enough, when this happens & a person or two gets banned, it seems that a number of others will inevitably pick up the torch and jump right in (and get tossed right out with them).

I'm all for a constructive discussion on the release of animals within their natural range....but, let's leave all the personal crap out of it. (in other words - knock it off, people)

 

[xanaxez]

Not that its important but who is Pete Kirkwood? Is that you Bo? Is your name really Bo or is it Pete? Are lying to them about your real name or are you lying to us about your real name? Why lie anyway, what is there to hide from? Are you keeping anything illegal in Ohio that you have concerns to make an inquiry under a false ID?

Lmao, that was lame and ignorant. i didnt post it, try keeping up before you open your cock huggers chuck. go to thread #9 and you will see how this letter came to light. as usual... you flap off at the gums before you know what's going on. my name is my name. ask the members here i have done business with so try your lame theory somewheres else. NEXT.

 

[WebSlave]

Yes, I read that, but there is still no proof of an actual existing law. None. FWCC contacted me, knew of my releases, and made no mention of any such "law" that I would have been in violation of. I and others have searched for such a law, all to no avail.

Here is the text in full of those statutes and administrative codes mentioned in that letter.

Proposed Non-native Wildlife Rules – Final Public Hearing A new rule is proposed to consolidate regulations on non-native species into one chapter. The provisions enlarge the scope of existing regulations beyond freshwater aquatic life and wildlife (68A) to include marine life. Accordingly, the rule will reside in a new chapter (68-5) within Title 68.
68-5 Rules Relating to Non-Native Species
68-5.001 Introduction of Non-native Species into the State
Broadens the prohibition against importation and release of non-native species to include marine life. Classifies certain species as “conditional” or “prohibited” and establishes permit requirements and conditions for their possession (existing in 68A-23.008). Provides for the unrestricted take of non-native species, except where otherwise regulated in Title 68, removing restrictions in 68A-4.001 General Prohibitions on taking non-native birds and mammals.
68.5002 Conditional Non-native Species
Incorporates aquatic species listed as “restricted” in 68A-23.008. Adds nutria, referenced only in statute (372.98). Adds red-eared slider turtle with special conditions, based on stakeholder input. Regulations for red-eared sliders: slider owners as of July 1, 2007 will not be required to have a permit, except that after July 1, 2008 no one may possess a red-eared slider less than four inches in length; outdoor rearing facilities must have solid containment barriers to prevent escape and eggs must be collected daily; there will be no permit requirements for distinctive color morphs (e.g., albinos, pastels, leucystic) that are relatively expensive and unlikely to be released.
68-5.003 Prohibited Non-native Species
Incorporates aquatic species listed in 68A-23.008. Adds three categories of marine species (stonefishes, weeverfishes, sea snakes) referenced only in statute (370.081). Adds African pouched rats (genus Cricetomys) following unanimous stakeholder review of biological profile , and conforming with the 2003 U.S. Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Disease Control Interim Final Rule that bans importation, transportation and sale.
68A-4.005 Introduction of Foreign Wildlife or Freshwater Fish or Carriers of Disease.
Repeals language regarding importation and release of non-native freshwater aquatic species and wildlife; these provisions will be
replaced with broader language including marine species proposed for 68-5.001. Incorporates provisions from 68A-23.008 regarding inspection of facilities holding freshwater aquatic organisms for disease.
68A-23.008 Introduction of Non-Native Aquatic Species in the Waters of the State; Provisions for Sale and Inspection of Fish for Bait or Propagation Purposes; Diseased Fish.
The rule would be repealed effective July 1, 2007. Provisions regarding introduction of non-native aquatic species will be incorporated in 68-5.001. Provisions for inspection of fish and facilities with aquatic species will be incorporated in 68A-4.005.
68A-25.002 General Provisions for Taking, Possession and Sale of Reptiles
Repeals language regarding importation of two species of tortoise that are hosts of ticks that may carry Heartwater disease; these provisions will be incorporated in 68-5.001. Adds a third species of tortoise listed in FDA rules known to host carrier ticks. Provides for the continuation of permit requirements for possession of venomous reptiles until January 1, 2008, at which time the requirements will become effective in 68A-6.007 and these provisions will be repealed.
68A-25.006 Possession, Exhibition and Caging Venomous Reptiles; Prohibited Species.
Repeals 68A-25.006 effective January 1, 2008, at which time provisions for caging and exhibition of venomous reptiles in 68A-6.007 will become effective.
Statutory references to nutria (372.98) and marine fishes (370.081) remain.

Chapter 68A-4.001 General Prohibitions: No wildlife or freshwater fish or their nests, eggs, young, homes or dens shall be taken, transported, stored, served, bought, sold, or possessed in any manner or quantity at any time except as specifically permitted by these rules nor shall anyone take, poison, store, buy, sell, possess, or wantonly or willfully waste the same except as specifically permitted by these rules.

379.231 Regulation of foreign animals.--

(1) It is unlawful to import for sale or use, or to release within this state, any species of the animal kingdom not indigenous to Florida without having obtained a permit to do so from the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

(2) The Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is authorized to issue or deny such a permit upon the completion of studies of the species made by it to determine any detrimental effect the species might have on the ecology of the state.

(3) A person in violation of this section commits a Level Three violation under s. 379.401.

Note the SPECIFIC identification of animals covered by such laws with the statement "species of the animal kingdom not indigenous to Florida", which certainly focuses the attention on the fact that INDIGENOUS animals are specifically NOT covered by those above mentioned laws and rules. Does anyone involved in this conversation NOT know that corn snakes are indigenous to Florida?

So again, unless you have some PROOF that I am violating a law, your claims are in fact LIBEL.

 

[critical bill]

Rich, I had pointed out to you the emails I recieved from the FWC

Lmao, that was lame and ignorant. i didnt post it, try keeping up before you open your huggers chuck. go to thread #9 and you will see how this letter came to light. as usual... you flap off at the gums before you know what's going on. my name is my name. ask the members here i have done business with so try your lame theory somewheres else. NEXT.

All I asked was a question and you call me names like that? What the hell is the matter with you? Look at what I highlighted in bold. That is your statement. That is what prompted my question.

I am very glad this whole thread came about. Finally the REAL deadwood is finding its way out of this place. And finally some of you are making it easy for the mods and Rich to differentiate the good guys from the bad guys.

You'll probably be banned momentarily so Adios, I wish I could say it was a pleasure knowing you but it really hasn't been.

 

[critical bill]

Hey Bo, before you go, why did you lie about your name to FWC when you made those inquiries? Are you in possession of something illegal that would cause you concern?

Its very suspicious looking. I'm going to call fish and game in your area to check in on you and see if they can confirm my suspicions. Expect a knock on your door palo.

 

[xanaxez]

Hey Bo, before you go, why did you lie about your name to FWC when you made those inquiries? Are you in possession of something illegal that would cause you concern?

Its very suspicious looking. I'm going to call fish and game in your area to check in on you and see if they can confirm my suspicions. Expect a knock on your door palo.

Lmao call who you want. that isnt my area. i didnt post the letter.. i simply copied it from someone else... keep trying chuck.. you're like the little engine that could aren't you? i think i can i think i can... i am in ohio we have no reptile laws rendering us from keeping any type of reptile lol, keep up the theorys chuck, get rich to find out what state that ip that posted it is from lmao. you're making yourself look like an ass each time you type. keep up the good work.

 

[Twizted Paths]

Great, beautiful. Florida's riled up so let's get Ohio pissed off too.

The fact is no matter what your personal view on this
NO LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN
though obviously some of you won't be happy until they make a new law and apply it retroactively. That is what it looks like you're lobbying for.

Soo, I hear peta pays moles very well. You guys aren't doing it for free are you?

 

[WebSlave]

Lmao call who you want. that isnt my area. i didnt post the letter.. i simply copied it from someone else... keep trying chuck.. you're like the little engine that could aren't you? i think i can i think i can... i am in ohio we have no reptile laws rendering us from keeping any type of reptile lol, keep up the theorys chuck, get rich to find out what state that ip that posted it is from lmao. you're making yourself look like an ass each time you type. keep up the good work.

Uh, there is a little tiny problem here with your story.

Rich, I had pointed out to you the emails I recieved from the FWC that the release of captive bred corn snake morphs was illegal, although, you have this convenient arrogance that you are above the state regulations.

You have PLAINLY stated in that previously quoted reply that YOU received emails FROM FWC. Not that you received them forwarded from someone else. So are you lying now or then, or just confused about the facts here?

 

[critical bill]

Lmao call who you want. that isnt my area.

So you lied about your area you reside too? How come you lie so much?

Ya know....if there were anyone that would want to actually believe anything you've said so far in this thread, it sure has been watered down with your lies and the profane language you use each and every time you reply.

Maybe you should just stop lying and continue with the truth.

Why don't you start with the truth and we'll go from there.

Why did you lie to FWC about your name when you made those inquiries?

 

[critical bill]

Soo, I hear peta pays moles very well. You guys aren't doing it for free are you?

Even for free, I don't think Peta would want those treasonous turncoat bums on their side.