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WTH Rich!

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I'm all for a constructive discussion on the release of animals within their natural range....but, let's leave all the personal crap out of it. (in other words - knock it off, people)
I agree, this has taken an ugly turn.

We have members threatening to use the BOI for revenge.
I'm sure many people might have the misfortune to do a business deal with a liar like yourself. I would not, and will link this thread to any BOI posts with your name.
Others threatening to call Fish and Game on other members.
Hey Bo,
Its very suspicious looking. I'm going to call fish and game in your area to check in on you and see if they can confirm my suspicions. Expect a knock on your door palo.
And the reason for this thread.
Rich publicly stating he was releasing Captive born and breed snakes into the wild.

It may not be illegal yet. But to say it on an open forum.
People may think, Rich released his snakes on his property. So it's OK for me to do it too.

We have many enemies out there that want to ban the keeping of our reptiles.
Not good.
I haven't been an active member here but I care about this subject.
I wish none of you any ill will. :)
 
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Uh oh, here comes another lie!
 
Uh, there is a little tiny problem here with your story.



You have PLAINLY stated in that previously quoted reply that YOU received emails FROM FWC. Not that you received them forwarded from someone else. So are you lying now or then, or just confused about the facts here?

No i didnt, go back and read the post rich since you avoided it the first time.. it would not let my qoute the entire post.. so i had to copy and paste what the person said. keep trying to make it look like me, i find it rather funny lmao. go to the post in thread#9 rich lmao you will see who posted it.. you never responded to the person.. you avoided the issue. if you had went to it you would have seen who posted it lmao. do an ip check rich.. use all of your forum power and pull the info up. 2 different people in seperate states with seperate computer ip#'s and different isp#'s... you're computer saavy rich, you should know better lol. or are you just attempting to jump on the bandwagon of chucks lame theorys? is the leader becoming a follower now?? it appears so..
 
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Uh oh, here comes another lie!

Keep trying chuck. lmao
 
Here chuck, since some of you seem to be dyslexic... i'll make sure all of it is in a post for you lmao




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Rich, I had pointed out to you the emails I recieved from the FWC that the release of captive bred corn snake morphs was illegal, although, you have this convenient arrogance that you are above the state regulations.
Quote:
Thank you for contacting the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. The response to your concerns appears below.

You may follow the link below to login and check the status of your account.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.


Click here to visit the Ask FWC Web site.


Subject
releasing captive bred corn snakes

Discussion Thread
Response (LE-JW) 12/11/2009 09:43 AM
As noted in your question below, the sub-species of corn snake is the issue. The statute that covers release is 379.231. The Florida Administrative Code sections would be 68-5.001. 68A-4.001 & 4.005.
Customer (Pete Kirkwood) 12/10/2009 08:45 PM
Could you please state the specific law regarding the unlawful release of any widlife in the state of Florida?

Regards,
Pete Kirkwood
Response (LE-JW) 12/10/2009 12:25 PM
It is unlawful to release any wildlife into the state without a permit from the Commission. If this is in reference to recent postings on an Internet reptile forum, we are aware of this and are investigating. If you have information that is different or may assist in the investigation please relay the information to the nearest FWC Regional Office, Division of Law Enforcement, http://myfwc.com/About/About_OrgStructure.htm.
Customer (Pete Kirkwood) 12/10/2009 02:01 AM
Is it legal in the State of Florida to release captive bred corn snakes, including genetic morphs into the wild?

I am very interested to know this.

I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,
Pete Kirkwood

[---001:
So far, in here and on CS.com, you have falied miserableby to put up a valid arguement. If you really want to know the legality of your actions, as I mentioned before to you, the FWC is just a phonecall away. But you seem to be above making phone calls.
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Here chuck, since some of you seem to be dyslexic... i'll make sure all of it is in a post for you lmao

Sorry, but I don't entertain liars and turncoats so I have no desire to look over anything you posted or correspond with you any longer.

But don't get confused, I'm going to continue to talk about you, but just not to you.
 
Just wondering per this post on his profile: 03-09-2009 07:25 PMxanaxez
i dont have anything for sale. you contacted the wrong person.


Is he a breeder or what? What's his "dog in this hunt?" (I just like the term:)).
 
Sorry, but I don't entertain liars and turncoats so I have no desire to look over anything you posted or correspond with you any longer.

But don't get confused, I'm going to continue to talk about you, but just not to you.

Talk all you want.. the post above just proved your ignorant theory is nothing more than a lie. you have been proven out to be a liar on your theory, now you turn tail and run? i expected a little more out of you than that chuck. guess i was wrong. stupidity at it's best i guess.
 
Just wondering per this post on his profile: 03-09-2009 07:25 PMxanaxez
i dont have anything for sale. you contacted the wrong person.


Is he a breeder or what? What's his "dog in this hunt?" (I just like the term:)).

No, i am not a breeder. i collect reptiles.. not sale them. i am a hobbyist and i have the same dog in this hunt as all hobbyist do. are you saying only breeders have a dog in this hunt? since it has to do with the entire hobby of reptiles... i think not.
 
Oh wait... i did have 1 for sale a while back. one that i didnt need because it wasnt the species i kept but it came with one i did. so maybe i am a seller then lmao does that give me a hunting dog in this also?
 
Sorry, but I don't entertain liars and turncoats so I have no desire to look over anything you posted or correspond with you any longer.

But don't get confused, I'm going to continue to talk about you, but just not to you.

Allow me to translate: "I know I am stupid and you proved me wrong so I wont read it but I will continue to talk shit about you because I am not smart enough to do anything else...."
 
No i didnt, go back and read the post rich since you avoided it the first time.. it would not let my qoute the entire post.. so i had to copy and paste what the person said. keep trying to make it look like me, i find it rather funny lmao. go to the post in thread#9 rich lmao you will see who posted it.. you never responded to the person.. you avoided the issue. if you had went to it you would have seen who posted it lmao. do an ip check rich.. use all of your forum power and pull the info up. 2 different people in seperate states with seperate computer ip#'s and different isp#'s... you're computer saavy rich, you should know better lol. or are you just attempting to jump on the bandwagon of chucks lame theorys? is the leader becoming a follower now?? it appears so..

Avoided it? Well no, if your powers of observation (only seemingly able to find posts to slam me with) were broadened a little bit more, you may have noted this post #16 I made in this thread...

Sorry, but I have already addressed this elsewhere, and see no reason to duplicate my answers here. You are welcome to view this existing thread, however, and take my answers as needed from that thread.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91701

Regardless, I did just today answer your continued claims of illegality with some FACTS, which you are apparently avoiding replying to yourself. Read the text I copied from those laws and rules quoted in that letter, please, and show me where it indicates I did anything illegal. YOU are here claiming I did, so please, show me some proof that your claims are truthful and not willful and malicious libel.
 
Last warning - keep the personal battles out of this thread :angry:
 
Avoided it? Well no, if your powers of observation (only seemingly able to find posts to slam me with) were broadened a little bit more, you may have noted this post #16 I made in this thread...



Regardless, I did just today answer your continued claims of illegality with some FACTS, which you are apparently avoiding replying to yourself. Read the text I copied from those laws and rules quoted in that letter, please, and show me where it indicates I did anything illegal. YOU are here claiming I did, so please, show me some proof that your claims are truthful and not willful and malicious libel.

You showed nothing more than the person i quoted did. your says it isn't ... his or hers letter direct from the FWC says it is.. is it legal then?? thats up in the air i guess since there is 2 versions saying it is and it isnt. was it wrong to do so? yes... was it wrong to do so at the time you did it? yes. i have not avoided anything. even yours and chucks theory of i posted it lmao. which was proven wrong and a lie on his part.
 
You showed nothing more than the person i quoted did. your says it isn't ... his or hers letter direct from the FWC says it is.. is it legal then?? thats up in the air i guess since there is 2 versions saying it is and it isnt. was it wrong to do so? yes... was it wrong to do so at the time you did it? yes. i have not avoided anything. even yours and chucks theory of i posted it lmao. which was proven wrong and a lie on his part.

Sorry, but I disagree. I DIRECTLY showed the laws and rules referenced in that letter that whoever replied to it based their claim on. It is obvious from those references that they were mistaken or did not fully understand the question. His or her statement is:
As noted in your question below, the sub-species of corn snake is the issue. The statute that covers release is 379.231. The Florida Administrative Code sections would be 68-5.001. 68A-4.001 & 4.005.
I have found and copied here that statute as well as those Florida Administrative Codes used as a reference and shown PLAINLY that they ONLY apply to non indigenous species, or in the case of 68A-4.001, something completely unrelated to the issue, and NOT the release of corn snakes in Florida.

The actual question posed was
Could you please state the specific law regarding the unlawful release of any widlife in the state of Florida?

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that there is an error in that response, based on those references provided with the answer. I believe the answer was REALLY relevant to non-indigenous species releases, which reading those texts I copied, should be clearly obvious to anyone but the most obtuse reader. Someone simply stating that something is illegal, no matter who they word for, doesn't make it so, fortunately.

Further, I was contacted by FWCC about this, apparently as a conclusion to their investigation. If I had violated a law, do you really think they would have let it go with only a phone call and a "have a nice day"? Quite frankly, I am thankful that the FWCC is not composed of the same sort of fanatical bunch I have seen in this thread. It would be a truly sorry situation in Florida if that were the case. And again, I'm so very sorry that you guys didn't get to see me hauled away in handcuffs, and that was apparently your goal. Trust me, I won't forget this anytime soon.

So tell me, what exactly is the purpose behind your continued attacks on me? What is hoped to be accomplished? You (collectively) have already failed to get me arrested. Do you get some sort of brownie points or stripe patches for your arm if you get banned from here? Shooting for captain's bars are we?
 
was it wrong to do so? yes... was it wrong to do so at the time you did it? yes.

Proof please? Or are your opinions now considered as law in the state of Florida?
 
Even for free, I don't think Peta would want those treasonous turncoat bums on their side.
Turncoats?
Why, because we disagree with the practice of releasing captive bred animals into the wild?
This was not a scientific reintroduction of a species into the wild. This was a breeder releasing snakes into the wild that had no idea if it would have a negative impact on the ecosystem.
I do not feel that disagreeing with this type of behavior posting to show that there are other hobbyists that don't condone this type of behavior as well is being a turncoat.
 
Sorry, but I disagree. I DIRECTLY showed the laws and rules referenced in that letter that whoever replied to it based their claim on. It is obvious from those references that they were mistaken or did not fully understand the question. His or her statement is:

I have found and copied here that statute as well as those Florida Administrative Codes used as a reference and shown PLAINLY that they ONLY apply to non indigenous species, or in the case of 68A-4.001, something completely unrelated to the issue, and NOT the release of corn snakes in Florida.

The actual question posed was


I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that there is an error in that response, based on those references provided with the answer. I believe the answer was REALLY relevant to non-indigenous species releases, which reading those texts I copied, should be clearly obvious to anyone but the most obtuse reader. Someone simply stating that something is illegal, no matter who they word for, doesn't make it so, fortunately.

Further, I was contacted by FWCC about this, apparently as a conclusion to their investigation. If I had violated a law, do you really think they would have let it go with only a phone call and a "have a nice day"? Quite frankly, I am thankful that the FWCC is not composed of the same sort of fanatical bunch I have seen in this thread. It would be a truly sorry situation in Florida if that were the case. And again, I'm so very sorry that you guys didn't get to see me hauled away in handcuffs, and that was apparently your goal. Trust me, I won't forget this anytime soon.

So tell me, what exactly is the purpose behind your continued attacks on me? What is hoped to be accomplished? You (collectively) have already failed to get me arrested. Do you get some sort of brownie points or stripe patches for your arm if you get banned from here? Shooting for captain's bars are we?



phibians.
(a) General Prohibition It is unlawful to capture, collect,
intentionally kill or injure, possess, purchase, propagate, sell,
transport, import or export any native reptile or amphibian, or part
thereof, except as provided in this chapter, Chapter 2 of this
subdivision relating to sportfishing and frogging, sections 650,
670.7, or 783 of these regulations, or as otherwise provided in the
Fish and Game Code or these regulations.
(b) For the purposes of this section, “intentionally kill or injure”
does not include death or injury that occurs incidental to an
otherwise lawful activity. This section does not prohibit the capture,
temporary collection or temporary possession of native reptiles
and amphibians done to avoid mortality or injury in connection
with such activities. The live capture and release of native reptiles
and amphibians done to avoid such death or injury may occur
only with the department’s written approval.
(c) Except for dried or processed reptile skins, it is unlawful
to display, in any place of business where pets or other animals
are sold, native reptiles or amphibians which cannot lawfully be
sold.
(d) Progeny resulting from pregnant native reptiles or
amphibians collected from the wild must be transferred to another
person or to a scientific or educational institution within 45 days
of birth or hatching. Persons receiving such progeny shall comply
with the bag and possession limits specified in sections 5.05 and
5.60.
(e) Reptiles or amphibians which have been in captivity,
including wild-caught and captively-bred individuals or offspring,
shall not be released into the wild without the written approval of
the department.

(f) Biological Supply Houses and Exempt Organizations.
(1) Biological Supply Houses. The department may issue permits
to owners of biological supply houses to sell native reptiles and
amphibians to scientific or educational institutions, pursuant to
 
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