WTH Rich!

[Twizted Paths]

You don't have first amendment rights in a forum Mr (using this forum to draw traffic to another) Daniel.

 

[critical bill]

That last post was a joke, right? Please say it was a joke.

 

[WebSlave]

Ok so I got to page 9 and just knew that Rich wasnt going to understand PERIOD about the true repreccussions of his very irresponsible and ILLEGAL actions. Sorta in my mind tells me that he should face the same fate as others who released captive burms or Arocks into the wild. FL courts should benefit from your admit of guilt.

You folks on here can downplay all you want about it being "just a corn" and "natural range" but look at it.....look at the irreponsibility someone who obviously made a name for himself in the reptile community has done.

Tiger Woods had a problem with wanting more vagina than allowed in his marriage, and thus has lost his family, endorsments, his fans, and alot of money and has yet made any attempt to admit he was wrong, shame faced, and defensive.

Rich has an issue of releasing Captive born reptiles into the wild thus committing a CRIME and therefore he is "OK"? What kind of crap is that. If it was someone that scammed someone online members here would be quick to tell people to turn them into the law for justice. (and for that it is right to do so)

Well i sorta feel scammed, and Rich is a "Bad Guy" as in this current climate of S.373 and the mass consequinces actions like this have. I will lose money and financial stability. I am not a big name and have made my mistakes but this by far is held as newsworthy and should be passed to those of you who are in bed with people that perform bad and irresponsible snake keeping practices.

Also Rich, this is to you, why do you feel so high and mighty behind your keyboard trying to lead a bad example for the younger generations of herpers and Publicly let them know you do this?

Any public figure , like you, found in an instance of wrongdoing has been called out, as they should. Are you that hard headed to not admit and pay the consequences for your actions. I have to have a permit in TN to breed and sell corns and it is for that reason right there what you did releasing them others have to suffer in the US.

Smile cause I hope you sit in your snuggie on your lazyboy with your laptop in your lap and watch as the many people realize they are supporting a person that could care less about their animals and only about lining your own pockets.

This is a free country and ban me if you must deny me my first amendment right like i see you have done others on here that have spoken against your irresponsibility.

I think it is time for you to lay your petty pride to the side and man up and admit what you did was wrong and be a better leader to the people just starting out in this hobby.

Just my .02

Sigh.... Gee, another one apparently committing libel. Go ahead fella, show me the law I violated. Perhaps you shouldn't have stopped at page 9.

 

[critical bill]

Tiger Woods had a problem with wanting more vagina than allowed in his marriage, and thus has lost his family, endorsments, his fans, and alot of money and has yet made any attempt to admit he was wrong, shame faced, and defensive.

Rich, I'm not sure what this guy is saying or where he s going with this, but I think he is suggesting that Mrs. Zuchowski should smack you in the face with a nine iron while you're driving because of your love affair with corn snakes?

If she gets you good and you cant drive anymore, can I have your corvette?

I'll go grocery shopping for you.

 

[WebSlave]

I know I should just close this thread, but I also know how much these people will then scream about that. So I will just keep on letting them show how ridiculous they look. At least for a while. Perhaps some others will care to "lemming" themselves out of here yet. This is a good way for me to rid myself of those supposed "friends" I had that someone mentioned some posts back......

Seriously people, whoever told you that your opinions were carved into a tablet somewhere and everyone is REQUIRED to obey your every opinion as to how YOU want the world to be?

Maybe some other day I'll slice that Herpterra's illogical and reason-challenged post to ribbons, but not today.... I'm still laughing too hard at it right now and don't want to wake the wife with my chuckling when I go to bed .

 

[polasian]

.....

I don't want to plague this thread by quoting everything you said...I think showing your name will suffice. My only response to you is...

Now...Why is the word "illegal" even being thrown around without any validation? If something is illegal it should be pretty simple to state which law makes it so. Illegal is NOT an opinion...it's black or white, fact or fiction, yay or nay. If you're trying to put laws and science up against opinion and morality...THEN DO SO!!! Where are these studies? Where are these laws? If you're trying to show that RICH is WRONG, then YOU need to PROVE that YOU are RIGHT!

If you're simply debating who's morality and opinions are valid...then why not just debate religion...the results will be the same. Rich can argue for his believes, and you can argue for yours. You can do that for all of eternity with no progress.

YOU guys made a claim against Rich...YOU used the word "illegal," YOU used the word "environmentally irresponsible," RICH used the word "opinion." How on earth can an opinion, and the actions derived from it, be considered a CRIME, if they are not proven to be illegal? How on earth can ones morality, and the actions derived from it, be considered WRONG, if they are not proven to be (in this instance) environmentally damaging?

YOUR words represent something that is TANGIBLE (illegal/damaging)...RICH'S words represent something that is INTANGIBLE (Opinion). It is IMPOSSIBLE for him to disprove a negative. Hence, its YOUR responsibility to prove YOUR "facts." Yet you have not backed up any of these "facts." Until any laws and studies are provided, ALL you have been doing this ENTIRE time is voicing your opinions and FALSELY representing them as facts. THAT MAKES YOU WRONG, some would even say LIARS!!! Rich has talked about his opinion...no one can say his opinions are wrong. Not unless they have something (outside of their imagination) that can PROVE Riches opinions to be illegal and/or environmentally damaging. Of course you can BELIEVE his opinions/actions to be wrong. But to say it so, matter-of-fact, is ridiculous without any meat to justify YOUR opinions.

Show laws to prove this is illegal. Show scientific evidence why this should be considered immoral. Until then...go play somewhere else.

 

[polasian]

Rich, I'm not sure what this guy is saying or where he s going with this, but I think he is suggesting that Mrs. Zuchowski should smack you in the face with a nine iron while you're driving because of your love affair with corn snakes?

If she gets you good and you cant drive anymore, can I have your corvette?

I'll go grocery shopping for you.

Chuck...I'm trying to keep a straight face here...this is serious.

 

[Lucille]

I second the motion to close the thread. It's sort of like pond scum, bits of it collect together in clumps on the side of the pond, and it seems like anti-Fauna scum from all over is clumping together on this thread.
There's a huge difference between ordinary speech and debate, and what is going on here.

to those of you who are in bed with people that perform bad and irresponsible snake keeping practices.

Seriously, what kind of comment is that? It is meant to be inflammatory, as are all the hostile posts from those stopping by to take potshots.

Enough.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Head wobble? Are you joking? Have you ever even seen a snake out in the wild react when a possible predator was in sight? I've seen that exact response in gray rat snakes I've pulled out of the mouse building, and in black racers and coachwhips I have found patrolling around here.

Do you think perhaps it is unethical for people to try to make up crap to try to damage their reputation?

Seriously LOOK at this video and tell me with a straight face that this is something unusual...



Sheesh, where do you guys come up with this crap, anyway? The bogus illegality accusation didn't fly, so you need to come up with something else instead? Go on back into conference with your buds to see if you can find something else to throw at me... Quite frankly, I believe the entire lot of you are just pathetic in your continued malicious attempts to damage my reputation.

Simply UNBELIEVABLE.......

Rich, last time I checked, I am an individual with individual opinions, thoughts, and ethics. I frequent several different forums, and express my views in all of them. Just because I disagree with something you have done does not mean I am part of some (non-existent) vast conspiracy to damage your reputation. FYI, I regularly disagre with people on just about every forum I frequent. As you should know, when large groups of people from around the country converge on a website, there's bound to be some disagreement.

I looked at the video...several times. I just looked at it again. That animals head, in my opinion, wobbles more than that of any non-morph I have seen in either captivity or the wild.

..... Where are these studies? Where are these laws? If you're trying to show that RICH is WRONG, then YOU need to PROVE that YOU are RIGHT!

...... How on earth can ones morality, and the actions derived from it, be considered WRONG, if they are not proven to be (in this instance) environmentally damaging?

..... Rich has talked about his opinion...no one can say his opinions are wrong. Not unless they have something (outside of their imagination) that can PROVE Riches opinions to be illegal and/or environmentally damaging. Of course you can BELIEVE his opinions/actions to be wrong. But to say it so, matter-of-fact, is ridiculous without any meat to justify YOUR opinions.

Show laws to prove this is illegal. Show scientific evidence why this should be considered immoral. Until then...go play somewhere else.

I'll re-iterate my earlier statement regarding proof. True proof would exist only after the damage had been done. Now, the corn snake is obviously not an invasive species, however, it is my opinion that their genetics may be harmful to wild populations in the long run. Shall we wait to find out how this pans out, and then come back in a decade or so with "proof", or should we excercise some caution? There are countless animals that have been released in this country, both accidentally and intentionally, which have gone on to cause serious damage to our ecosystems. Nobody had any proof that would happen until it happened.

I second the motion to close the thread. It's sort of like pond scum, bits of it collect together in clumps on the side of the pond, and it seems like anti-Fauna scum from all over is clumping together on this thread.
There's a huge difference between ordinary speech and debate, and what is going on here.



Seriously, what kind of comment is that? It is meant to be inflammatory, as are all the hostile posts from those stopping by to take potshots.

Enough.

Lucille, are you kidding me? Really? You might as well say that all the anti-black scum are piling on the president because he's black. Did you ever stop to think that maybe people actually disagree with Rich based on his argument?

I support this site with my contributions and my money. I just think Rich is dead WRONG!!! It's not anti-Fauna, not anti-Rich, just pro-common sense. I made it very clear in my earlier post that there is a big difference between illegal and unethical. Having said that (and keeping in mind that I am for small government and few Constitutional laws), there is a reason many states do have laws to prohibit the release of captive animals into the wild. Weak genetics are not good for wild populations, and pathogens animals can be exposed to in captivity may have a detrimental effect on native fauna.

 

[WebSlave]

Rich, last time I checked, I am an individual with individual opinions, thoughts, and ethics. I frequent several different forums, and express my views in all of them. Just because I disagree with something you have done does not mean I am part of some (non-existent) vast conspiracy to damage your reputation. FYI, I regularly disagre with people on just about every forum I frequent. As you should know, when large groups of people from around the country converge on a website, there's bound to be some disagreement.

Sure, but at what point does a person or persons constantly expressing those belittling options edge into the arena of maliciousnes and fanaticism? Really, I think you need to step back and take a look at yourself to analyze what your true motivations are here. It is my opinion that your motives are to do harm to me. Otherwise why are you and others so desperately trying to prove your case to find wrong doing on my part?

I looked at the video...several times. I just looked at it again. That animals head, in my opinion, wobbles more than that of any non-morph I have seen in either captivity or the wild.

Well, I guess that I will just have to be of the opinion that this is more a reflection of your lack of experience with snakes and ignorance then any actual physiological problem with that snake in the video.



Oh, right, I guess the next post will be that this is PROOF that the corn snakes I released have affected that green snake in the video above..

Seriously, you need to broaden your horizon a bit. You obviously don't have the experience level you think you do. It took me all of two minutes to find that video on YouTube. Not real big on research, now are you?

I'll re-iterate my earlier statement regarding proof. True proof would exist only after the damage had been done. Now, the corn snake is obviously not an invasive species, however, it is my opinion that their genetics may be harmful to wild populations in the long run. Shall we wait to find out how this pans out, and then come back in a decade or so with "proof", or should we excercise some caution? There are countless animals that have been released in this country, both accidentally and intentionally, which have gone on to cause serious damage to our ecosystems. Nobody had any proof that would happen until it happened.

Again, ignorance at work.

I have already stated that I have been releasing corns for DECADES. When I lived in Maryland I relased corns beginning in the late 70s. Therefore based on your statement above, the PROOF should be obvious and heavily documented by now. Seems to me that you would be literally up to your eyeballs in documented harm by now. So if you are not, then why not? Could it actually be, *gasp*, that there has been NO harm done?

Lucille, are you kidding me? Really? You might as well say that all the anti-black scum are piling on the president because he's black. Did you ever stop to think that maybe people actually disagree with Rich based on his argument?

Not to speak for Lucille, but I don't think anyone is aghast at the disagreement. I think people are becoming aghast at the vehemence and maliciousness of the out and out ATTACKS. Do you believe that someone purposely and maliciously quoting text from California laws in order to try to make me look like I had done something illegal is a reasonable and rational "disagreement"? Well I believe that anyone with even a quarter of their brain functioning can see this for what it really is.

I support this site with my contributions and my money. I just think Rich is dead WRONG!!! It's not anti-Fauna, not anti-Rich, just pro-common sense. I made it very clear in my earlier post that there is a big difference between illegal and unethical. Having said that (and keeping in mind that I am for small government and few Constitutional laws), there is a reason many states do have laws to prohibit the release of captive animals into the wild. Weak genetics are not good for wild populations, and pathogens animals can be exposed to in captivity may have a detrimental effect on native fauna.

See, that's the problem. You think YOUR opinion is just common sense and not merely what it really is: YOUR OPINION. Nothing more. You guys are coming across like you are carrying a stone tablet engraved by God saying "THOW SHALT NOT RELEASE CORN SNAKES INTO THEIR NATIVE RANGE!" Quite frankly you are coming across as fanatics and zealots. Bigots, actually who feel that anyone who does not agree with their religious like chants should have crosses burned on their front lawn. If someone does not believe in their holy scripture then they MUST be heathens that should be stoned in public.

And you all are CLUELESS about how you appear to other people.

 

[hhmoore]

<sigh> I'm going back to the atest venomoid discussion. At least there, both sides will freely admit that we don't give a flying crap what the other side says, the opinions and arguments are just that - opinions and arguments, and we don't take it personally.

hhmoore has turned his back on this thread

 

[SPJ]

it seems like anti-Fauna scum from all over is clumping together on this thread.

You have got to be kidding me!
This is NOT anti-Fauna! It is anti releasing of cb snakes into the wild!

 

[critical bill]

You have got to be kidding me!
This is NOT anti-Fauna! It is anti releasing of cb snakes into the wild!

This site was brought up and criticized at least a half dozen times in this thread. Are you just reading the parts you want to read which support your argument? Honestly, you started this here, you should know what the hell its all about from beginning to end.

Perhaps Lucille was simply referring to those who have been banned already for making anti fauna remarks.

So why are you taking it personally?

 

[SPJ]

So why are you taking it personally?

Because this is what the thread I started deteriorated into.

 

[WebSlave]

You have got to be kidding me!
This is NOT anti-Fauna! It is anti releasing of cb snakes into the wild!

Which has reached EPIC proportions of maliciousness and fanaticism. Seriously, do you really believe that your camp utilizing a liar dredging up fake evidence to try to accuse me of breaking the law is OK? Others are also accusing me of breaking the law (which IS libel, btw) without a shred of evidence, yet that is what your "cause" is all about? That someone mistaking common head movements in a snake as being indicative of a health problem and accusing me of wrong doing because of it, is merely a calm, rational, innocently non-malicious discussion with me? That these are not out and out ATTACKS? And because I run this site, that attack does not encompass this site as well? Are you REALLY that naive or just pretending to be so for the sake of the appearance of your argument?

Seriously, just how stupid do you think the viewers are here to not see through what you are trying to do? And I'll give you another helpful hint. The harder you try to besmirch my reputation, the more ground you lose with every post. Except in your little minority pool that I'm sure you enjoy getting their brownie point "atta-boys!" as positive feedback that your crusade is just and noble.

Matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that some people looking in on this conversation might actually begin siding with HSUS, PETA, and the SPCA based on the malicious attacks that this industry is trying to inflict on another. They are likely thinking "Sheesh, those guys are attacking another because he would rather release his native snakes then to KILL them...." So if PETA were to call you up and ask YOU specifically, "Mr. Jordanides, is it true, yes or no, that you would rather kill a baby corn snake then release it within it's natural and native environment?" How would you answer that? YES or NO? No qualifiers, no explanations, no "buts". They will ONLY want that YES or NO. Yeah, watch THAT blow up in your faces.... And you think PETA and the like is going to have a problem with ME choosing to allow those snakes to live instead of killing them...

So tell me, how wide and deep do you guys intend to make this grave you are digging for the industry with your continued fanatical attacks? Just how high do you think this column of smoke you are generating has to be before it DOES catch the eye of the people you fear? And you just cannot see that aspect of your attacks at all, now can you? It just torques you up to no end that I don't agree with your PERSONAL opinions, and am not going to roll over to expose my soft belly to your blades, now doesn't it?

 

[WebSlave]

Because this is what the thread I started deteriorated into.

Oh really? And who STARTED it along that path?

You do not release captive snakes into the wild.
PERIOD!

It's bad enough that the government and the average person thinks we all release snakes into the wild in Florida and now this!
More ammunition to ban the ownership of snakes!

 

[SPJ]

And how do those quotes from me have anything to do with being anti-fauna?
That is grasping at straws.

 

[WebSlave]

And how do those quotes from me have anything to do with being anti-fauna?
That is grasping at straws.

I'm sorry, I guess I should have quoted the entire post to leave everything in context.

So why are you taking it personally?

Because this is what the thread I started deteriorated into.

That wasn't about being anti-fauna, it was about you "taking it personally".

 

[WebSlave]

OK, I have been advised by one of my moderators that I am beginning to look like the people that are attacking me, so I'm taking a break from this discussion. I believe I have stated my case clearly and in detail, so if anyone doesn't care to take the time to read this thread in it's entirety and simply wants to rebake the same old arguments without checking for my previous replies to them, well, knock yourselves out.

 

[critical bill]

Because this is what the thread I started deteriorated into.

Well that's not your fault, you cant control what other people do or say.

But here is something you can control, something you can do. Since you pretty much feel responsible since you started it, can you find the truth? Can you provide the facts, the data, the legalities and things like that? Other than to just stop in once and a while and reiterate what you think is wrong? Not that I mind your company because I like you, but when you return next can you support your argument?

If not, then its just the way you feel about it, and you've said it more than enough for everyone to know how you feel. Its getting old. Not that its annoying to me, but in case you haven't noticed its getting Rich pretty annoyed.

So for the sake of anyone else getting banned, even yourself, hit the web or hit the library and post some hard precise evidence to support this. If its there you'll find it.