Info US GLOBAL EXOTICS SPCA RAID

[Archie Bottoms]

After all of this you are right peta is not on trial we are.With the python ban and all the new bills being written to limit our freedom we are the ones given the burden proof .Peta has proven its willingness to break the law to save the animals then there willingness to let another 4000 or 6000 animals die to make there point.When the animals become evidence then it seems they no longer come under the protection of peta or the law.No one was ready to care for that many animals and it was never in the plan .Good homes proper care, vet treatment ,as well as a happy pet was never the goal of peta.PETA is a terrorist force that keeping pets is not on there agenda.Healthy pets are not on there agenda pets are not there agenda.The separation of man from animals is there agenda.No loss is to much to achieve there goals.Peta has convinced little old ladys colleage students soccer moms and a host of people to donate money to save the kittens,by the way felis is the most distructive animal on the planet,but I love my cats.They won the battle and with the cash flo they have created there is a good chance they will win the war on reptile pets.Me alone I have cared for mabie 1000 animals as well as 2500 invertibrates at one time Spider feeding took about 4 hours then every animal is on the scedule It can be done if every one does there job. .I am rambling we are on trial not peta or us global it has only just begun (.KAREN CARPENTER)

 

[Matt K]

First of all you people need to stop arguing.

Secondly, I am not defending Global here and I would never take the side of Peta even if they were right. Unless you were actually there you don't really know the truth.

It is my opinion that most of you reading and responding to this thread don't know much about the import/export/wholesale business.....etc.etc.etc....

Brian Dierking

THANK YOU! My God that was the point I was trying to get at, albeit poorly, all around the posts by ("Mr.Revolution-who-worked-part-time-weekends-at-a-zoo-years-ago-who-knows-better-than-all-others-with-elementary-math-and-elementary-insults-to-prove-it).

The fact is that nobody making a living (or trying to) (which does not include me- I am retired) is doing anything with animals for free or even discounted. What many people consider "proper care" is too expensive and anyone reading this would never have the animals that they do if it weren't for importers/wholesalers (usually one and the same) doing what some people consider horrible things. I (again) am not siding with USGlobal per se, but I have been on that end of the business and its not always pretty, so the animal rights people need to suck it up a little. Yes, animals should be treated with repect and care - of course- but if you want a pet, then you also want what goes with getting it to some extent.

Moral of the story is that more people need to ask themselves "what's involved in that business realistically BEFORE they go ranting about how bad things may or may not have been there. Even if they have to use elementary school math to do it.

 

[KelliH]

First of all you people need to stop arguing.

Secondly, I am not defending Global here and I would never take the side of Peta even if they were right. Unless you were actually there you don't really know the truth.

It is my opinion that most of you reading and responding to this thread don't know much about the import/export/wholesale business. That is really not your fault. The general public has no idea about the business either. Do not confuse this with the zoo industry because they are not even close to each other.

Import and export is not as simple as most of you more then likely believe, or whatever images you have in your mind are possibly not even close to reality.

...

Excellent post!

 

[Python Dreams]

Well you guys obviously like business more than you like reptiles! Listening to your responses defending animal cruelty in the price of cheap disposable reptiles is pretty sickening? And I would guess PETA or the HSUS only needs to read brd7666s post to realize the extent of the abuse that goes on, and how many of us will defend this abuse.
My girlfriend just asked me "Does anyone care about reptiles the way you do?"

 

[JG1153]

THANK YOU! ("Mr.Revolution-who-worked-part-time-weekends-at-a-zoo-years-ago-who-knows-better-than-all-others-with-elementary-math-and-elementary-insults-to-prove-it).

So working for free according to you is not work? Well I also worked for U.S. Fish and Wildlife for free (part time) and under a paid position(full time) at this facility which again deals with large numbers of endangered species (including herps) being held in captivity. In fact I still work with them when I have the time and the same would be for the zoo if the drive weren't so long. I also worked at a vet's for several years (animal care experience again), have a degree in zoology, have kept herps for the past 10 years and continue to work with T/E species to this day. Animals and animal care is my career and my life. its what I do for a living. In fact at this very moment I'm sitting on a vessel 200 miles off the Texas coast in the Gulf of Mexico working with marine mammals and sea turtles under the Marine Mammal Protection Act and Endangered Species Act.

so I guess there goes your foot back into your mouth again Matt.

 

[JG1153]

Those childish insults I was referring to in my earlier post might just about turn out to be a better line of attack for you right about now Matt K cuz your current line of attack somehow keeps backfiring on you. LOL.

IDK, just trying to throw you a bone. Or I could just send you some nice seasoning for that foot of yours for next time if you'd like?LOL.

 

[DAND]

Well you guys obviously like business more than you like reptiles! Listening to your responses defending animal cruelty in the price of cheap disposable reptiles is pretty sickening? And I would guess PETA or the HSUS only needs to read brd7666s post to realize the extent of the abuse that goes on, and how many of us will defend this abuse.
My girlfriend just asked me "Does anyone care about reptiles the way you do?"

There was a thread started by Gary O asking "Is it a hobby anymore" http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160999 which sheds some light on this. It seems that once a person goes from being a hobbyist to someone looking to make a living, it seems that once that line is crossed a large majority of those people seem to lose their compassion for the animals and they then become disposable.

Jump that up a few notches and then you have the wholesalers who are ordering insane numbers of animals which would never be able to cared for properly with the number of people working even if they cared enough to do so. Hell, when they are purchasing 500 at $2.50 and they sell half at $10.00 without having to even bother feeding them, the other half might as well be housed in a dumpster.

The hell with PETA, all the wholesalers need is a hobbyist overseeing their facility and the health and quality of animals offered would not only greatly improve but we wouldn't have raids or threads of this nature.

 

[Archie Bottoms]

DAND THAT IS A TRUE STATE MENT

 

[ShiffyAME]

In fact at this very moment I'm sitting on a vessel 200 miles off the Texas coast in the Gulf of Mexico working with marine mammals and sea turtles under the Marine Mammal Protection Act and Endangered Species Act.

jealous! and motivated to go knock all my homework and labs out today!!


matt shifflett aka shiffy420

 

[JG1153]

I don’t think people are understanding things very well. I and I think most people are reasonable people to begin with. I don’t think anyone here is expecting for wholesalers to build specialized, no comforts barred, naturalistic vivaria for every single animal that comes in to their facility. Obviously that is over the top and unrealistic but by the same line of reasoning saying that it’s ok to basically neglect a $5 lizard because “well you can only make $5” is also taking it too far. Obviously there is a middle ground where the animals are receiving basic, basic, humane care (clean and appropriate food, water, and living space) and still netting those folks in the industry a profit but I think it’s pretty obvious that the way things are at the moment is not exactly near this middle ground and in quite a few instances it’s far from it.

Why is everyone acting like there is absolutely nothing that can be done to improve things? Ultimately those holding the cash are the ones holding the power just like when I want an animal I make sure I deal with a reputable merchant. If I choose to give my money to those people who scam others or neglect their animals I’m effectively saying to those people that I’m ok with this by financially supporting them and I’m allowing those practices to continue. The same is true for importers and wholesalers. It all follows the same basic rules of economics and capitalist free trade.

As the buyer I have the conscious decision to do or not to do business with a certain someone and to even demand that certain things be done a certain way. So why are wholesalers saying “well it’s not my fault, this is the way the animals come in from the importer”. This is a total cop-out. Someone has already made the very good point in a previous post that these animals usually come from poor third world countries and they’re caught by extremely poor people who then sell them to the importer.

You think that importer out of Africa or Asia is going to be ok with not getting your money because he can’t provide appropriate levels of care or shipping on his part which then makes you end up with sick, injured or dying animals and consequently not doing business with him anymore? Of course not, you say “I won’t do business with you because of this or that issue and they’ll say “ well what can I do to make things better” which then also goes back to that poor peasant being told he/she needs to be more careful when capturing those animals and then we’re all on our way to making things just a little better for everyone involved.

The reality of it is that turning a blind eye because “it’s just a $5 lizard or feeder rat” doesn’t exactly make the problem go away it often makes it worst. This time around you only received a few dead, sick, or injured animals and you said nothing so next shipment the guy sends you a few extra sub par animals to see how far he can cut corners and still make money and it keeps going on and on all the way around until here we are now having to be told by a court what is and is not appropriate. This is shameful to say the least. Wake up people all these laws in the works at the moment aren’t necessarily just all the work of political activist nut jobs. Our inability to regulate and set decent standards for ourselves as a hobby and industry then prompts unwanted attention from those nut jobs like PETA and consequently government regulation. Every time you or your friend goes out and releases that turtle or harmless little snake or lizard where it doesn’t belong (yes I know those bills are based on bad data but it’s not the point, the point is the attention we bring to ourselves) and everytime you willingly give your money to a shady dealer, importer or wholesaler just to get a good deal or make an extra profit you are adding to the problem and you’re rolling the dice for all of us and eventually we all end up taking the hit for it.

So in the end it’s not PETA or the government whose completely at fault here. We’re the ones providing them with the ammo and effectively poking, prodding, and daring them to do something and then we sit here and cry and whine when they turn around and use it. The reality of it is that in order for any of this to get better first we as hobby/industry need to look ourselves in the mirror because that’s where the root of the problems lie.

Look I've worked with the federal government for years and still work with them in my current line of work and I can tell you that they should be treated like a temperamental slumbering giant in that you really want to walk lightly around them because once you wake them up and they start on a rampage hell is gonna break loose. we've effectively woken up and pissed off the giant and we're beginning to see the results of that in the way of all these new bills and now here we are prodding it again on this current issue. The way we're going isn't going to end up well for us so what are we going to do to make sure that's not the way things end up for our hobby/industry?

 

[lanceheads]

There was a thread started by Gary O asking "Is it a hobby anymore" http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160999 which sheds some light on this. It seems that once a person goes from being a hobbyist to someone looking to make a living, it seems that once that line is crossed a large majority of those people seem to lose their compassion for the animals and they then become disposable.

Jump that up a few notches and then you have the wholesalers who are ordering insane numbers of animals which would never be able to cared for properly with the number of people working even if they cared enough to do so. Hell, when they are purchasing 500 at $2.50 and they sell half at $10.00 without having to even bother feeding them, the other half might as well be housed in a dumpster.

The hell with PETA, all the wholesalers need is a hobbyist overseeing their facility and the health and quality of animals offered would not only greatly improve but we wouldn't have raids or threads of this nature.

Excellent post.

Randal Berry

 

[JG1153]

Oops, forgot to add the followoing to my statement but I thinks it can stand on it’s own so I’ll post it separately.


Today it’s “well it’s just a $5 lizard” but tomorrow when you’re raking in the millions like U.S. Global was it becomes “well it’s just a $1000 kinkajou, put it in the freezer”.

 

[kmarsh]

Thank You Brian for Your wonderful post that hits to the heart of much of this. As to the others and their mud slinging, insulting, name calling, that is so uncalled for.
The problem is definately with us wanting more and wanting it cheaper. The bad part is that it is not just in the reptiles, they just happen to play more on peoples emotions than the rest of it does. We all love our computers. Its certainly obvious from all the activity on them. Yet recently on the news they showed all the slave type labor in the other countries that manufacture many of our beloved treasures,( iphones, ipods, computers, stereos, tennis shoes, ) just to name a few. They also showed that after we use these items they in turn are shipped back to many of those countries and the waste that goes with it and how its killing the people just to try to make a few bucks a day. Yet there is so little care about that and yet they are HUMANS.
My point is that animals generate a different pull on the heart strings, and even though this same tragedy is going on with HUMANS no one seems to care as long as they have their "toys". I don't see any of us ready to stop using computers and such because humans are being taken advantage of. We can't change the world or the greed that is in it. We can only try to do the part we can around us. I have not tried nor am I trying now to absolve animal suffering and I wish that it could change. I hope that it does change but as stated before we don't see what goes on behind closed doors in many of the products we buy and sell. No one sees the killing that peta does, they see the cute kitties and sympathetic pleas for donations and we hand it over thinking we saved a kitty. Not knowing that behind the scene they are putting it to sleep themselves. YES, I would love to see change but also know that the reality is that it just changes hands. Sure they close US Global but next week more like them will open because the opportunity is there. We will still want what we want no matter the cost. Sadly this is mans way.

 

[Archie Bottoms]

Most of the reptiles today can maintain a good population from captive breeding for the reptile industry.At this moment every snake I own came from some one I know and they produced.But I have 2 exceptions and I cought them.My animals get the best care that can be given period.I wish every one was that way in my dreams they are.This guy I know once owned a pet shop.A girl came in and wanted a albino burm when they ran around 1200 bucks she had the cash it was her first snake.The problem came when she told him she wanted it to stay 2 to 3 foot forever.Oh he said just feed it one mouse every 2 months and it will stay small and healthy.Then come my big mouth .The truth flew qnd I was banned from his shop for awhile but she bought a albino corn.I could write a book on deals that were rip offs or pure lies that I have witnessed.The shop is closed by the way now.What I am saying has been stated already the love of money has surpassed the love of the animal in many cases,The global raid was not really like that ,granted he needed more employes and better ones that is a fact.If you sell animals this day and age you had better screen who cares for your stock you better make sure you have a in house vet.When I had a pet shop my vet came in once a week did checks fecals supplied all my puppy shots all for free.Every animal sold was given a free first time vet visit and he got a new costomer out of every few.sales.CYA BE HONEST AND WE MAY MAKE IT.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

The mudslinging

I think, in large part, we need to stop arguing amongst ourselves and ban together to defend reptiles as well as our right to keep them. Our largest problem is that we, as a hobbiest, have no leadership, no representation, and no power.
I, for one, am appauled by what I saw in those pictures as well as video. Regardless if it was setup, somone is at fault here. I dont own a Wallaby or have never eaten a Kangaroo burger, so I will not take any blame there. I do however own reptiles, so how they were treated is partially on my shoulders. I have owned them for almost 25 yrs now and I know that I am part at fault for creating the demand.
I am NOT on the side of USGE and I am DEFINITELY not for PETA, I eat meat . I am on the side of morals and ethics as well as responsible hobbiests, like most of us reading this forum are. Its up to us to solve the problem that we face. WE need to educate the public and the new prospective hobbiests on responsibility as well as husbandry. If we dont, we will surely lose.
As breeders and dealers, create new policies within your own TOS. When I used to sell, if someone was unable to keep something that I sold them, I had a buyback service in plan. They knew this ahead of time, as it was a part of my TOS. I would do my best to also educate my customer. "No, your snake will not survive in the park if you cannot keep it anymore".

We have all become know-it-alls in a field where things change daily. We argue amongst ourselves. We hold grudges and those grudges lead to more grudges etc etc etc. As much as I am a part of it, I am the problem. WE ARE THE PROBLEM PEOPLE.
If we dont "police" our own hobby and continue to do business with wholesalers, who in my own opinion was in WAYYYY over their head, we will surely lose yet another freedom. If we do not educate, PETA and the HSUS will erradicate our animals. We just need to stick together, right or wrong, before its too late.

 

[Matt K]

*the following quote was shortened for clarity*

I think we need to ban together to defend reptiles as well as our right to keep them. Our largest problem is that we, as a hobbiest, have no leadership, no representation, and no power.

I am on the side of morals and ethics as well as responsible hobbiests, like most of us reading this forum are. Its up to us to solve the problem that we face. WE need to educate the public and the new prospective hobbiests on responsibility as well as husbandry. If we dont, we will surely lose. We just need to stick together, right or wrong, before its too late.

Don't Panic, it's just a few thoughts-

From the bottom up on that last post:

While there are certainly niches and cliques amongst all of us on these boards, I don't feel like that many hold grudges and some argueing can be very productive. Example: While I do not like how JG1153 said what he said, I actually kind of like the guy for what he was trying to get at underneath the odious surface of his words. Mudslinging was really not a good title for the post. I PM'd Juan, he PM'd me back, it was very civil, and while he and I may have conflicting views I think if he and I had a discussion in person it would only be productive and not a flat out fight (let me know if I am way off base on this Juan aka JG1153)! A certain degree of inner conflict can be more productive in evaluating and creating new resources than everyone posting online sympathy cards to one another- in my opinion.

I think we should organize into regional or state groups of (somehow whoever can officially attend- open forum at reptile shows maybe?) of the hobbiests, shop owners, wholesalers, private breeders, etc. and have group discussions to put 10 ideas down. Then each state group pool all those ideas into a forum somewhere that we can all read them and as a "community" define what's fair and not in terms of improving and strengthening the fauna hobby from collection to consumer. Given a year and a half or so for the whole process it could be done voluntarily. Am I too far off to think anyone reading my words here would not cooperate with each other on this and set aside any personal differences we may have? Or do some of us hate others so much that they will stubbornly not save thier own butts just to take down the competition?

As for breeders and dealers creating new policies within your own TOS, how many after this was in the last post will actually read it and do it? Probably very few if any, and even those wont really be able to fully enforce that. There should maybe be a Fauna Golden Rule page as a template for anyone to follow and stick to it. A set of internal rules that everyone has to log somehow, and anyone not on that log is an automatic "bad apple"? Kind of like so many reptile websites have caresheets, only its a caresheet for all fauna related businesses.... ? ? ? ? Just a couple thoughts... Could we get US Globals' input on this? NOT to judge them either way but to see where the holes in thier system were that needed to be addressed, as there is certainly other importers who may have the same circumstances (novel idea). They really have not said anything in this thread about themselves....

Do you agree with any of this or is this all for naught and the hobby by and large is set on a course for total collapse in the years to come?

Just havin' a discussion here....

 

[Mike Schultz]

Most of the reptiles today can maintain a good population from captive breeding for the reptile industry.At this moment every snake I own came from some one I know and they produced.But I have 2 exceptions and I cought them.

That's why there are so many water dragon, green/brown anole, and green iguana breeders? Because the most popular lizards in the pet industry are so widely produced, right Same goes for almost every species of turtle/tortoise (well i guess the 4 inch rule is mainly at fault here), many popular snakes, and most frogs. Taking a position against wild caught animals is just silly.

My animals get the best care that can be given period.

Everybody says that

 

[Only Exotics]

Matt K, US Global will never come here or anywhere else & admit their faults

 

[Mike Schultz]

Matt K, US Global will never come here or anywhere else & admit their faults

Not much point in hanging around having internet nerds try to ruin your business when PETA has already done it

 

[Only Exotics]

Not much point in hanging around having internet nerds try to ruin your business when PETA has already done it

Regardless of the fact it wouldn't happen either way dude.