Urine Test

[DAND]

Hmm, if jobs in areas that are non-critical to the national security of this country are requiring employees to pass urine tests, well shouldn't this policy be implemented in those areas where national security is a DEFINITE issue? For instance, say, Congress and even the White House? Let's face it, wouldn't you feel a whole lot better knowing that those people who can throw this country into war or economic chaos AREN'T doing so while under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Even though they often certainly ACT like they are?

Of course, guess who would be asked to VOTE for such a requirement......

No way, they may hit the joint but they don't inhale.

 

[sschind]

Nicolas- Most of my post was tongue in cheek but I'll respond to your comments which do have merit.

Yes, It would create jobs (from "Cup Factory" workers to "Test Kit Factory" works to "Lab Techs" who run the tests to People handing out the cups, etc...) and these new jobs will birth new taxpayers. However we are talking about a potentially HUGE sum of money out of your and my pockets, to get this ball rolling. If there was some evidence that (lets say) one quarter of the individuals on public assistance were druggies, then the OP's proposal would be worth looking into. As it stands, however, I don't see how the new tax dollars and the money saved by weeding out druggies who get their benefits revoked, would be enough to cover the costs for such a program.

I was only half serious here hence the Wizard of Id reference (I realize I may be the only one who knows who the Wizard if Id is but the joke works with anyone) I agree that initial start up costs and training would most likely be cost prohibitive.

I agree, one demographic shouldn't be treated differently than the other (in this case). However, by requiring the public assistance recipients to submit to a urine test, we would be doing just that (treating people differently). Is there some mandatory country wide policy of urine testing for the work force? Absolutely not. Arguing for urine testing for one population while the other is exempt from it, makes this argument of fairness contradictory.

For those already being forced to pee in the cup I think they would see it differently. And before you say that they really do not have to pee in the cup if they don't want to, they do if they want to keep their job. The difference here is that we are talking about a government agency vs the private sector. The laws and what is allowed are different. The private sector can get away with a lot more than the government can regarding things like this. Either way, one part of the population is being required to do something the other is not. Not really complaining just pointing out that the differences already exist.

I don't think anyone will disagree with that. Things are screwed up...they can be better, MUCH better. However, pissing in a cup would probably be nothing more than a costly branch off of the war against drugs. The cons will (most likely) outweigh the pros.

I agree 100% as I said in my first post. I think Steve's OP was more of an act of frustration than anything else. Adding another level such as this to an already bloated and woefully inefficient bureaucratic program would probably make matter worse. His point however, if I may put words into your mouth Steve, is that something should be done to prevent the abuse. The money that is wasted by our government every single day in this country is a travesty. If only a small portion of that would be used to help alleviate the problems Steve addressed it would have a twofold effect. It would give people like Steve a confidence in his government that would make him not mind peeing in a cup (he has already said he has no problem with him being forced to take the test) if he knew that some of the money he was paying in taxes was not going to support people who are abusing the system. Second, It would Identify a portion of the population that could be helped get off the drugs and possibly become contributing members of society again.

Donna, I would venture to guess that the vast majority of people on any form of PA are like you. I am sure that they would rather not be on it and I am sure that most are not living high off the hog. It is for people like you that the programs were designed and the vast majority of working Americans who are paying for the benefits through their taxes do not mind. It is what decent human beings do for others. I have no idea how many people would fall under the "abusing the system category" The number would be different for everyone depending on their definition of abuse I suppose. Certainly some amount of abuse is inevitable. To make things too stringent would be to eliminate many deserving people. Would it be better to prevent all the abuse and leave out some of the needy or take care of all of the needy and allow some abuse? I think it would be an easy choice if we were actually taking care of all of the needy now but we all know that is not the case.

Is making people on PA pee in a cup the answer? Probably not. What are the alternatives? I don't know. But I know how Steve, and millions of other Americans feel when they see people abusing the system. It is frustrating.

 

[SamanthaJane13]

I also have a peeve over the women who get on welfare at 15 because they're pregnant, then keep crankin' them out every 2 to 3 years to keep the benefits coming in.

I know of a case where husband and wife have 14 kids, and at least half of them are mentally and/or physically disabled.

This was LONG BEFORE Octo-Mom made the news...

They don't believe in birth control, but they believe in welfare, SSI, and pan-handling. The kids would be going door to door begging for pop cans they could turn in for deposit, food, etc.

One of their daughters was caught prostituting herself at the playground next door to me, another kid was nearly grabbed up by a pedophile at the school bus stop, but us moms called the cops. They were found guilty of defrauding 3 different food banks and had 19 whole turkeys in their van when they got caught. 4 or 5 days a week they bragged they were going out to dinner...at a local soup kitchen.

They moved out of our neighborhood and took up in one of the suburbs, were buying cellphones for kids in the neighborhood, the hubby had like 5 motorcycles, and one day they were busted for child neglect, having a FILTHY HOUSE, and anything else the authorities could throw at them and get to stick.

Mom had one baby in prison while she and Daddy were in for 3 years on child abuse/neglect charges, but they whined that the 13 others had to be separated when they were put in foster care for the duration of the parents' sentence.

What foster home has room for 13 kids ranging from 18 months to 16 years old, PLUS a new-born infant??

They each had 23 charges against them, but plead down to one charge each of child endangerment.

If it was anyone else, they'd lock us up, throw away the key, then set the jail on fire.

These scum lived 3 doors from me...and before you make a snap judgement...there people are WHITE.

Take them to a veterinarian clinic. SPAY MOMMA LIKE A DOG AND LOP DADDY'S JEWELS OFF!! For cripes sake-I bet ya THAT would work!!!

They're out at every Right To Life rally in WNY, and that poor sweet little girl with Spina bifida is always toting a sign.

Makes me SICK!!!

I ran into the mom last spring...she was bragging that she only has 5 left a home, and 3 grand-babies...I told her it was about time she had a few more, and I just walked away shaking my head.


http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-13571.html


THESE people abused the system!!!

 

[garweft]

The OP is touching on the fact that the system sucks (from one point of view), and so is Donna (from another point of view). Is her beef too petty for you and dad? If that place gets bomb threats...then her gripe is valid (because its obviously a concern shared by others). Aside from the financial downfalls of this idea, Donna is pointing out how demeaning it would be (you know, for that petty and unimportant human aspect ). Couple the bureaucratic nonsense with being handed a cup...and the will really hit the bricks. You can laugh at this all you want...until (God forbid) you find yourself holding ticket number 882.

So it's not demeaning to have to pee in a cup to make minimum wage at wally world stacking dog food?

I'm a little biased seeing how I live in what has to be the welfare capitol of the world, good old Jefferson County Ohio. I never realized how bad it is until I moved back after college. It's a life style for a lot of people here. Our top employer is walmart so welfare is a better option for people. I personally know of girls who got pregnant so that they could get into the projects and get welfare. I have had people brag about getting a free computer and internet access, and 2 years later when they want a newer model they just break the one they have and get a replacement.

If I had only lived in an area similar to where I went to college I most likely would not feel the way I do since i would not have had weekly experiences of seeing people abuse the system. People here don't try because they see Steubenville is a depressed shell of it's former self, A hopeless pit of poverty. If you haven't seen it first hand on a weekly basis then congratulations, but here abuse is the rule not the exception.

 

[SamanthaJane13]

So it's not demeaning to have to pee in a cup to make minimum wage at wally world stacking dog food?

I'm a little biased seeing how I live in what has to be the welfare capitol of the world, good old Jefferson County Ohio. I never realized how bad it is until I moved back after college. It's a life style for a lot of people here. Our top employer is walmart so welfare is a better option for people. I personally know of girls who got pregnant so that they could get into the projects and get welfare. I have had people brag about getting a free computer and internet access, and 2 years later when they want a newer model they just break the one they have and get a replacement.

If I had only lived in an area similar to where I went to college I most likely would not feel the way I do since i would not have had weekly experiences of seeing people abuse the system. People here don't try because they see Steubenville is a depressed shell of it's former self, A hopeless pit of poverty. If you haven't seen it first hand on a weekly basis then congratulations, but here abuse is the rule not the exception.

Welcome to my reality-

"Forbes lists Buffalo as 'miserable city'

Updated: Thursday, 18 Feb 2010, 3:19 PM EST
Published : Thursday, 18 Feb 2010, 10:00 AM EST

Forbes has published their third annual "America's Most Miserable Cities," list. Buffalo is on the list, coming in as the eighth most miserable city.

Forbes says they measured the 200 largest metro areas' unemployment rates, taxes, commute times, violent crime and sports teams.

Number one on the list is Cleveland, Ohio. Some of the others on the list are Miami, Flint, New York, Toledo and Kansas City."


http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/local/B...able-city-list

 

[garweft]

Forbes has published their third annual "America's Most Miserable Cities," list. Buffalo is on the list, coming in as the eighth most miserable city.

Forbes says they measured the 200 largest metro areas' unemployment rates, taxes, commute times, violent crime and sports teams.

Number one on the list is Cleveland, Ohio. Some of the others on the list are Miami, Flint, New York, Toledo and Kansas City."


http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/local/B...able-city-list

I think the Browns have finally won Cleveland a title......

 

[SamanthaJane13]

LOL-The Bills certainly haven't HELPED Buffalo...Thanks for your contribution, "TO"!!!

But the Sabres' Ryan Miller is kicking some Olympic ass!!!

GO SABRES!!!!!

 

[garweft]

Just so no one gets the idea that I am some sort of silver spoon kid that has had everything given to him let me state a few facts about me.

1) I am 33 years old and have never in my life made more than $15,000 in a year. (Although I do plan to in the next year or 2, grad students don't get paid very well)

2) I have 2 children who receive assistance in the form of Medicaid, and reduced daycare costs.

3) I was raised by a single mom who worked hard, but did need a small amount of assistance as well.

 

[Twizted Paths]

Number one on the list is Cleveland, Ohio. Some of the others on the list are Miami, Flint, New York, Toledo and Kansas City."


http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/local/B...able-city-list

I think the Browns have finally won Cleveland a title......

Thanks guys, I feel soo much more optimistic now

 

[SamanthaJane13]

Just so no one gets the idea that I am some sort of silver spoon kid that has had everything given to him let me state a few facts about me.

1) I am 33 years old and have never in my life made more than $15,000 in a year. (Although I do plan to in the next year or 2, grad students don't get paid very well)

2) I have 2 children who receive assistance in the form of Medicaid, and reduced daycare costs.

3) I was raised by a single mom who worked hard, but did need a small amount of assistance as well.

Never accused you of being a rich kid, Garweft.

And for the record, I WAS part of a moderately wealthy family(Mom (single) and I lived with my grandparents), but married without my family's approval to a guy who was abusive and whored around. He got into my college fund and had a field day, after he took me through a bankruptcy.

When I threw his ass out, my family was basically of the "you made your bed..." philosophy.

So many years later...I'm where I'm at. Single with 2 daughters (the oldest just got divorced and moved in above Daddy...)...and a small zoo.

He kept the friends, the car, remarried, has a double home, and 2 more kids with the new battle-axe.

I still think I got the better deal.