Bad Guy Retic880Bad Deal

[deborahbroadus]

How about a picture of the dead snake, for confirmation?
Did you take pics of the snake when you picked it up, to show it was sick?

Post 'em up.

BINGO!!

I was just about to ask the same thing. Op post pics of the snake for confirmation that it is indeed dead and so that the seller can identify it as his snake or not..

It would also help if that third person came and made his comments on what went down from his perspective.

I frankly am not jumping on the seller..the OP isn't making a lot of sense leaving the snake for a week, then picking it up and then two days later "open mouthed breathing"...

I am hestitant to support what may end up being a "shake down" of the seller.

He may not be the nicest of guys right now, but how would any of us react if we KNEW that the buyer was lying. I am willing to wait for more evidence from both of them that the animal was healthy.

Jim, I am not far from you, I also use Dr. Boyd, it will be easy to get a copy of your report...so please post it.

 

[j_h_smith]

Also i had to add..jim you never called me once. if you did why didnt you leave a message??? people on fauna call me all the time about snakes.


email?? i got a new email sence i moved. try going to one of my post and you will see my email addy plain as day. also try emailing me threw fauna and you would be suprised how i recieve them. you didnt try any of this stuff i just said. Good Bye

I've sent you emails through Fauna. If you haven't updated your profile, that's not my fault. I did call you twice and got no answer. You called me back in the past without me leaviing a message. Why not this time?

Jim Smith

 

[deborahbroadus]

I've sent you emails through Fauna. If you haven't updated your profile, that's not my fault. I did call you twice and got no answer. You called me back in the past without me leaviing a message. Why not this time?

Jim Smith

Please, let's not waste time on "he said, she said." Harald suggested posting pictures and I am waiting to see a copy of the Vet report.

Also if Retic88 has a copy of emails where you stated the animals recent weight, that would help.

 

[tinmantribe5]

The last time I had checked Batril is really for Dogs Primarily,unless prescribed by a Liscenced Vet in the Correct doses,so do you have a sick dog some where to have Batril so easy or a Vet that has no Business giving it to you in the first place.It strikes me funny you would have something thats not that easy to get unless you have a prescription even on line you need a Doctors prescription,so you either have sick dogs running around and your playin Vet with their medicine or you have had sick Snakes in the Past!

 

[j_h_smith]

i havent bought any snakes in a good while on fauna so your full of sh*t on that one.



Thats a big lie on that one. i argured with you stating that snake was fine and when i handed it to rick he also agreed that the snake was fine.

More then happy your full of it on that to. you claimed it was so sick and it was near death. i told you to send it back and you refused. you wanted me to pay for a vet so you can get the meds. i told you i can get the meds and you said thats great to send them to you. Delayed?? i sent them the next freaking day you lier.

You never offered to take the snake back. I sure would have sent the snake back to you for a full refund. If you can't pay half, how could you pay the entire amount? Why would I want to keep a sick snake? You need to cover yourself better than this. Too many people have heard stories like this before. Okay, lets get this right. I was happy and said it was "great" that you would send me meds for a sick snake you sent me? I don't think so. As for the delay, you called me up and said the person at the Pittsburgh Zoo coudln't get you the Baytril and you would send it out the following day. That constitutes a one day delay. So yes, you were delayed in shipping the meds.

and you also told me your vet gave you a differnt drug then i sent you. so you mixed 2 different drugs and killed the snake yourself thats even if it was my ball according to someone we both know.

I was able to get one dose of Baytril into the snake. That was the first day, all other needles bent. I called you and told you that. You then said that I should keep trying and if need be, you had more Baytril you could send me. You also told me to keep trying and when I found a needle that worked (because I had already thrown the first needle away) to drain the Baytril out of the remaining needles and use the one that was able to pierce the snake's skin. I then told you that I have tried all and none would work. That's when I told you I was going to my vet. As for mixing 2 drugs, everything was disclosed to Dr. Boyd. So now I guess you're telling me you know more about meds than a licensed vet? Again, I don't think so.

you told me you picked it up the next day and now it was at ricks for a week??? make up your mind. if rick had it for a week dont you think he would of called me saying the snake was sick????

I never told you I would pick it up the next day. I was always going to pick it up at the Havre de Grace show the next weekend. You know how Rick is, he's not going to intervene between 2 people during a sale. I do fault Rick to an extent, that's why I agreed to a 50% refund. You also agreed to this same refund. So why are you arguing about it now?

He warned me about dealing with you and i fell for it just like he said. he straight out said i had sucker written on my forehead. he said you been bugging him for meds for a long time now and he kept telling you NO.

OUTRIGHT LIE Now you're calling Rick Krumrine into the discussion. Do you really want to stick with this statement? There are a few problems with this statment. I just got back into herping. Your's was the 2nd snake I bought since I started back. I haven't needed any meds for 4 years.

That's how long it's been since I've owned a snake or any other reptile. Wow, how low will you go to try to sway others?

I will be making a call to Rick as soon as I finish here to let him know you're draggging his name and reputation into this discussion.

as far as im concerned we are DONE!!!

As soon as I get my money, you can bet we're done.

Jim Smith

 

[DAND]

The buyer and seller seem to have different memories of how things transpired.

And how is this thread any different then any other thread?


Paul, if you moved and have changed your e-mail address you may want to provide it to people versus expecting them to psychically know your new e-mail address or expecting them to hunt your contact information down.


I would have thought I would have asked for the pics earlier this morning but I guess I did not. Jim, where are those pics? Vet report?


Let's add yet another twist to the drama. While paul claims that the snake was in good health prior to giving it to the third party, is it possible that it could have developed the troubles while under the third party's care or possible lack there of?


And lastly, paul if you were forewarned not to deal with this person and you still did it seems you may want to start listening to what other people are saying.

 

[j_h_smith]

First of all, I think some of you are to quick to be jumping all over the seller here.

Any chance we can get this Rick guys opinion of the situation? If he knows what he is doing and knows how to examine a snake, then why did he accept the snake in the first place??? The way the OP spoke of this middle man, it sounded like he was educated enough to determine if the snake was healthy. If the snake was as sick as you claim, I think it should have been detected then.

I can't speak for Rick, but he told me the snake was sick when he got it. Rick is a busy breeder and he told me when Paul brought him the snake, he was busy at the show. He said he looked at it that evening and the snake was showing signs of RI.

If the OP was comfortable with the middle mans decisioin to accept the snake, then he needs to be held more accountable then some of you seem to think. This was a hand to hand delivery, not a site unseen over the internet. If the middle man thought there was something wrong he should of called the OP and said "what do you want me to do". At that time the OP could have said to refuse the animal and the seller would of had to refund his money. Some people have a policy of all sales in person are final.

This was my instructions to Rick, however he was busy at the time the snake was delivered, so he didn't get a chance to look at it. I also had sent the money ahead of time (at Paul's request), so the snake was paid for. If Rick would have somehow refused the snake, I still would not have gotten my money back.

Why wait a week before you picked up the snake from Rick? How do you know what the conditions the snake was in during the week in waiting? How do you know it was cared for properly?

The middle man is Rick Krumrine. Rick and I have been friends for years. I do trust Rick and his ability to care for a snake between shows.

If the OP is still willing to give you a partial refund, I think you should be more then happy.

There are two sides to every story, and in this case even a third.

That's all I'm looking for.

In the case of the baytril, it is a prescription drug, yes. It is also one of the safer antibotics you can use. I knew a vet years ago, and if he knew you then he had know problem giving you the baytril. He even sold it at reptile shows.

I don't know how small of a needle you are refering to here, but it would not take a big needle to do the job on a snake that size. What your experience is with injections is also something we don't know about. But I will tell you with baytril, you want to go in under a scale at an angle right along the side of the back bone in the mussel tissue. You do not want to stick the needle straight into the snake.

Yes, I've been into reptiles for almost 20 years now. I have given injections to a tortoise and 3 snakes. One of my own and 2 for other people that didn't want to try. I am a diabetic, so everyone thinks I'm okay with giving injections. I still have the meds Paul sent me. So I have proof. Also, the Vet told me there was no way these were the proper size for a snake this large. He gave me syringes that were twice the size Paul sent me. The vet said these Paul's syringes were appropriate for geckos, but not a snake this size.

In my opinion there are some things here that don't ad up.

You can have your opinion, after all isn't that all any of us have. But I can say confidently, that the information I've given is true and accurate.

Jim Smith

 

[j_h_smith]

Thank you!!! Rick is a great guy to deal with and knows his Sh*t. like i said he buys animals from me and i buy them from him and we are good friends. he also is my frozen rodent supplier and i have nothing bad to say about the guy. He kicks ass in my book but he told me to just stay away from jim once i told him my ball is dead from what jim said. he also told me he will never be the middle man again with anyone else.


I told jim i would give a 50% refund once the retics sell. if he cant wait till that happens then i guess he dont want a refund at all then. be patiant or dont bother me or post this crap

Paul, just a quick question for ya. Why do you have your name listed as Paul Moldovan on Fauna, but your Baytril package came from a Paul Botte? Are we using aliases?

As for Rick telling you anything about me, I doubt anything you say here will be true. He may be your rodent supplier, but he's my friend. He will be getting a call from me today. I think you may have to find yourself another rodent supplier.

Jim Smith

 

[deborahbroadus]

I can't speak for Rick, but he told me the snake was sick when he got it. Rick is a busy breeder and he told me when Paul brought him the snake, he was busy at the show. He said he looked at it that evening and the snake was showing signs of RI.




This was my instructions to Rick, however he was busy at the time the snake was delivered, so he didn't get a chance to look at it. I also had sent the money ahead of time (at Paul's request), so the snake was paid for. If Rick would have somehow refused the snake, I still would not have gotten my money back.

The middle man is Rick Krumrine. Rick and I have been friends for years. I do trust Rick and his ability to care for a snake between shows.




That's all I'm looking for.



Yes, I've been into reptiles for almost 20 years now. I have given injections to a tortoise and 3 snakes. One of my own and 2 for other people that didn't want to try. I am a diabetic, so everyone thinks I'm okay with giving injections. I still have the meds Paul sent me. So I have proof. Also, the Vet told me there was no way these were the proper size for a snake this large. He gave me syringes that were twice the size Paul sent me. The vet said these Paul's syringes were appropriate for geckos, but not a snake this size.


You can have your opinion, after all isn't that all any of us have. But I can say confidently, that the information I've given is true and accurate.

Jim Smith

You have not proven that the snake the one sold to you.

You have not proven that you took the snake to the vet.

You have not proven that you have a dead snake.

I don't put much stock in anyone's word and even less if I don't know them personally.

 

[j_h_smith]

Thats how it is for me. its really easy to get ahold of but doesnt mean my collection or animals need it.

now look at the pic in my post of the ball http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164171


the weight of the snake is 1072 grams. i fed the snake real good before jim recieved it. when i asked him for the weight of the snake then so i can get him the correct amount of meds he told me it was 1190. now how does a ball gain over 100 grams of weight if its so sick near death??? anyone knows if a snake is truley that sick it will not eat at all.

Show me a picture with the snake's weight. You can say anything you want. Your ad stated the snake weight as 1200 grams, When I got it, the snake was 1190 grams, it died at 1190 grams. I don't know what it's weight was when you sold it to me now. Was it 1072 grams or 1200 grams like you posted in your Fauna ad?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164171

Now don't delete this ad. Let everyone see the weight you advertised the snake as being.

1072 or 1200?

Jim Smith

 

[j_h_smith]

The buyer and seller seem to have different memories of how things transpired. I don't know Paul (or the OP); but you can bet that if I had a "reputable breeder" pick up a snake for me, I would expect prompt notification that the snake was sick...and that's assuming that there was a simple exchange & the person never looked over the snake (if a "reputable breeder" actually inspected it, and found it to have a severe infection, I would hope my money would not leave his hands...at least not without him contacting me for approval).

OP - I'm hesitant to comment on your version of what the vet told you, because I'm hoping you just screwed it up.

Both of you are referencing an anonymous third party's comments - somebody needs to identify him...better yet, have him post his version of things. (I may regret that if we then have 3 different stories, lol)



now to go back to reading

Rick Krumrine.

 

[hhmoore]

The last time I had checked Batril is really for Dogs Primarily,unless prescribed by a Liscenced Vet in the Correct doses,so do you have a sick dog some where to have Batril so easy or a Vet that has no Business giving it to you in the first place.It strikes me funny you would have something thats not that easy to get unless you have a prescription even on line you need a Doctors prescription,so you either have sick dogs running around and your playin Vet with their medicine or you have had sick Snakes in the Past!

Baytril is widely used for reptiles, and requires a prescription regardless of the species of the intended "patient". It is also not all that hard to get a prescription, or a bottle, from a vet.....and, while it may be illegal, I have seen bottles of Baytril advertised on KS from time to time.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Show me a picture with the snake's weight. You can say anything you want. Your ad stated the snake weight as 1200 grams, When I got it, the snake was 1190 grams, it died at 1190 grams. I don't know what it's weight was when you sold it to me now. Was it 1072 grams or 1200 grams like you posted in your Fauna ad?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164171

Now don't delete this ad. Let everyone see the weight you advertised the snake as being.

1072 or 1200?

Jim Smith

THIS is your evidence??? The words mean NOTHING, he has the animal on a SCALE so you can see the actual weight. Did you NOT see that picture yourself??

So..how did the animal get from 1072 g to the weight stated (1190g) if it was ill, or are you denying that the animal was the stated weight?? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[snakecandy]

I have a few questions and I know neither of you so I am non-bias and maybe just playing devils advocate here... If your friend picked up the snake for you and you said he was a reputable breeder then why did he not check the snake out for you before he took him in? Did your friend let you know right away that something was wrong? I'm just trying to better understand the timeline here.

 

[hhmoore]

Show me a picture with the snake's weight. You can say anything you want. Your ad stated the snake weight as 1200 grams, When I got it, the snake was 1190 grams, it died at 1190 grams. I don't know what it's weight was when you sold it to me now. Was it 1072 grams or 1200 grams like you posted in your Fauna ad?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164171

Now don't delete this ad. Let everyone see the weight you advertised the snake as being.

1072 or 1200?

Jim Smith

That ad was edited months ago - just so nobody makes the claim that Paul changed things in response to this thread.
The original ad, placed on 2/2/10, stated "i have up for sale my High Contrast Albino female. she is just pushing 1200 grams." On 2/3, it was edited to read "she was 1200 grams in late october. she has been off feed for 3 months and finally today she took 2 small rats today"; and on 2/9 edited to say it was sold.
In Paul's post, dated 2/3, he showed her on a scale - weighing 1072 - and indicated that weight was before feeding her.

Now, Paul, what's up with the name difference?

 

[hhmoore]

With the OP reporting that Rick said it was sick when he opened the bag, and the seller reporting that Rick said it was fine, I think we're all waiting for Rick to post his side of things.

 

[hhmoore]

That ad was edited months ago - just so nobody makes the claim that Paul changed things in response to this thread.
The original ad, placed on 2/2/10, stated "i have up for sale my High Contrast Albino female. she is just pushing 1200 grams." On 2/3, it was edited to read "she was 1200 grams in late october. she has been off feed for 3 months and finally today she took 2 small rats today"; and on 2/9 edited to say it was sold.
In Paul's post, dated 2/3, he showed her on a scale - weighing 1072 - and indicated that weight was before feeding her.

Now, Paul, what's up with the name difference?

**on 2/9 the ad was edited to read "ALL BALLS ARE SOLD"...he posted on 2/2 that the albino was sold (that was before the pics on the scale were posted).

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

I may be out of line here (if I am hhmore let me know) But in most case's A picture may be required to validate a refund in most case's I have yet to see a pic of the animal in question. Why is that? And yes I agree the person who picked up the snake needs to tell their side and I belive we would get 3 diff stories if that happened

 

[j_h_smith]

How about a picture of the dead snake, for confirmation?
Did you take pics of the snake when you picked it up, to show it was sick?

Post 'em up.

I always take pictures of a snake for it's weight. As for signs of RI and mouth rot, no I did not. Here are 2 pictures of the snake on the morning I woke to find it dead.

Here are the pictures.

Sorry I don't know how to display the actual photos.

Jim Smith

 

[j_h_smith]

BINGO!!

I was just about to ask the same thing. Op post pics of the snake for confirmation that it is indeed dead and so that the seller can identify it as his snake or not..

It would also help if that third person came and made his comments on what went down from his perspective.

I frankly am not jumping on the seller..the OP isn't making a lot of sense leaving the snake for a week, then picking it up and then two days later "open mouthed breathing"...

Not jumping on you either, but Rick Krumrine picked up the snake and took it home with him. He then brought the snake to the Havre de Grace show the next weekend. Rick lives in Pa, I live in Middle River Md. I trust Rick with my life, much less a 1200 gram Albino Ball Python. He is more than quallified to keep a snake for a week, then deliver it to me at the next local show.

I am hestitant to support what may end up being a "shake down" of the seller.

You're intitled to your opinion, but you are mistaken. I consider myself an upstanding individual with morals. The reason I accepted a 50% refund is because of the fact that the snake wasn't handed off to me. I doubt Rick Krumrine has done anything to this snake to make it become ill, so I have no other conclusion that the snake was sick when Paul sold it to me. Pauk agrred to the 50% refund, I just don't know when I'm going to get it.

He may not be the nicest of guys right now, but how would any of us react if we KNEW that the buyer was lying. I am willing to wait for more evidence from both of them that the animal was healthy.

Jim, I am not far from you, I also use Dr. Boyd, it will be easy to get a copy of your report...so please post it.

How many lies do I have to catch Paul saying before you look at this straight on? He said he sold me a 1072 gram snake, but his ad says 1200 grams. I don't want to backtrack, but please read all of the posts in this thread and tell me who you think is telling lies? That's all I ask!


Jim Smith